(pic from biblestorymurals.com or worshippingchristian.org)
It seems to me that the Church of Christ folks don’t celebrate Christmas (and this would be something that they WOULD agree on with Armando). I wonder if one of them might be willing to come on and discuss this, to tell what the morning of December 25 is like in their home? I have a feeling one of the men might discuss this on tonight’s broadcast – it would be timely – but I don’t have any inside information. Anyway, what is your (reader) view on celebrating Jesus’ birth on December 25, and the other Christmas traditions?
[Note to Armando: I know that you read this blog and post often. If you wouldn’t mind, before you write in and answer, could you give the Church of Christ folks a chance first?]
[Note to Johnny Robertson, Norm Fields and James Oldfield: I’m not trying to be taunting here, but aren’t you guys just the least bit disconcerted that an Apostolic from Los Angeles is willing to come here and discuss what he believes, but none of your folks are – and this blog is devoted to discussing what you teach?]
Answering the Church of Christ 
They claim they dont, trust me they do. Most all of the people here in their churches who hear these guys preach against this still have the tree and gifts and things.
I’m from Pastor Armandos church and the reason I don’t celebrate christmas is because #1 History channel documentary 😉 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5T5ibb2E9I and second Christmas=Christ Mass…I’m not catholic I don’t attend mass.
No problem Bless you
For us its just another day.The kids know their is no such thing as Santa an if you take the N and put it to the end of Santa it spell Satan.
We all know Jesus could not be in a Major in the winter with a lamb or sheep it would be to cold.So our kids know the truth no need to lie to them.If we lie to them who will love them enough to tell them the truth?
So,no Santa no rain dear games no tree and no Dept!!!!LOL
For us its just another day.The kids know their is no such thing as Santa an if you take the N and put it to the end of Santa it spell Satan.
We all know Jesus could not be in a Major in the winter with a lamb or sheep it would be to cold.So our kids know the truth no need to lie to them.If we lie to them who will love them enough to tell them the truth?
So,no Santa no rain dear games no tree and no Dept!!!!LOL
O I forgot to mention my Pastor is Armondo Deloa =o)
I am well aware of that, but the churches of Christ do not want people engaging in Christmas. They want people to think they do not buy gifts and things with a tree as other people do, but trust me, most of them do. I think most people agree that Jesus wasnt born on Dec. 25….
Actually, it would spell Santan. But I digress…
Christmas started in 440 bc as for a celebration 400 years after the Church started . How can we say Christmas is of God?
Give me Bible and History.
As a member of the church of Christ, some do think on Christ’s birth but we encourage one another to think on His birth, life, death, burial, and resurrection all year round. Its not the remembering of Christ that is discouraged, but it is making it a mandatory obligation of Christianity. Though so many Protestants want to keep Christ in Christmas, they don’t keep mass, so you can see even further application by the churches of Christ.
Christmas is normal in our homes with trees and gifts even with prayer and thoughts on Christ like everyday. Its not just the birth of Christ that we think on. Now, there are some “in” churches of Christ who are divisive about opinions and these few would make a big deal about Christmas. If you’re angry with those people, then have fun arguing with them but not as the churches of Christ.
Armando: do you celebrate Easter?
Scott: I appreciate your thoughts on this. Just so you know, we are addressing a certain group of Church of Christ folks who teach certain specific things – including condemning everyone who believes or practices their Christian faith differently than they do.
I really appreciate that you are apparently a part of a Church of Christ that isn’t so strictly dogmatic as these men are. I will appreciate your (apparently) more moderate view on issues as you feel inclined to contribute.
Nathan
Ten posts here, and none from our local Church of Christ friends.
Interesting…
I dont celebrate Estar which is what easter is . I love that Christ used this day though to uplift God. But, i dont celebrate easter at all. But, i dont condemn any one who does that really is between God and Man as for me and my family we stay away from anything that really does not exalt christ in this view point. But, i do wish all love and grace in God.
I’m glad to see that you are consistent in this! You passed my test concerning holidays.
However, I’m still waiting for an answer to my question about Jesus “talking to himself” ALOT when he talked to the Father and when he talked about the coming Holy Spirit in the third person.
Email me if you can i will go into a depth for you .
You can go ahead and go into it here. Can you summarize?
I join the angels in celebrating the great news of the arrival of the Messiah! We celebrate as our culture does, with most all the trappings (trees, presents, way too much food, carols, etc.). At our church we sing Christmas carols all December. Our sermons resonate with the beauty of the Christmas story. Why should we not? I pray that the message of peace on earth resonates in the hearts of all men.
All of this non-Christmas stuff is just dogmatism. In truth, the “Christmas spirit” is the “Christian spirit” … and this is a yearlong celebration.
John
hmmm…..if christmas was to celebrate the birth of christ wouldn’t it of been celebrated in the bible? i mean jesus christ walked on this earth for 33 and a half years, i’m pretty sure if he wanted people to celebrate his birthday he may have mentioned it. i don’t recall thee aposles celebrating christmas? did jesus ever say to remeber his birth? No i can only recall him saying to remember his death
with love,
❤ Don rick 🙂
It was celebrated in the Bible … by a host of angels, by the Magi, by the Shepherds. Isn’t that enough? Does anyone have to have evidence of birthday cakes or specific dates in order to know that the virgin birth is one of the most celebrated facts of our faith … a matter of prophetic importance? Does anyone think that Jesus was HOPING that people would forget about that mary and joseph and the star thing?
to Johndobbs
Im sorry someone leid to you.
Linda, could you explain who lied to johndobbs?
Johndobbs has been lied to by the Catholic Church it really is that simple . the beginning of celebrating this false spirit of christmas started around 440 A.D. The early christians suffered for standing against Christmas and Easter and any one who puts trees up and celebrates easter has a false spirit. There is no biblical warrant, nor precept for remembrance of the day of Christ’s birth as a day of special religious celbration it is pagan and we as Chirsitans need to take a stand against this wicked time of the year. Its rituaul ceremonys goes far back way to pagan worship. People if we are a people who believe in Worshipping God than why do we hold to the traditions of Man. We, need to make our mind up live for God or live pagan (for the devil) You cant be saved being pagan. Polycarp died going against easter according to history. He did not deny that precious name Jesus. He stood his ground and died.
Love ya all! (I’ll be back)
AnsweringChurchofChrist: I will summarize to you but, it will be an indepth long summary. Only because the other blogs really did not make sense to you so i have to put more down so that you could understand but, if i do please really take in consideration of what i am saying. from an open heart point of view. When i try to see what Johnny is saying i took it with an open heart.
What other blogs? You’ve never replied to the question, Armando. You didn’t when Johnny discussed it during the debate, and you haven’t now on this blog. Don’t confuse the issue by telling me that I’ve somehow missed something when you haven’t even addressed what I brought up.
I don’t need in-depth – I’ll be happier with a concise neat answer.
See their is a reason johnDobbs believes what he believes.Who told him that lie I don’t know who ask him.Never the less its still a lie.Just like our parents lied to us about Santa.I love my children i to told them lies about Santa till i found truth.Now they know the truth and all my children worship a living GOD.
I was only explaing jesus is the Father on the debat Johnny did not want to touch the subject and yes i did answer hence leading to what i wrote above you. To explain this subject because the Trinitarians have made it so complicated it is simple Christ is GOD no other God Christ is The Father ; Christ is the Holy Ghost simple Christ is the Son simple. Jesus is all he is the provider he is the comforter. My God’s name is Jesus simple but, i will walk with you through this and if you dont want to up to you. YOu really dont want to know a person that has a heart really wants to know. You have missed it. It was right in your face. Jesus is God in flesh I timothy 3:16 unless there is another God we dont know about. God was manifested in the flesh period. John 14:6 And the Word was made flesh read verse 1 who was the Word? God or Jesus and that fits with I Timothy 3:16. If you dont believe God is Jesus you have a major problem he’s not part God he is fully God.
One more time, Armando:
If God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are all Jesus only, then why – countless times – does Jesus talk of the Father and the Holy Ghost as separate persons?
A simple question.
Thank you,
Nathan
First of all there is no terminology that Jesus is God the Son and God the Holy Ghost this is where it gets mixed up.
What is a person in your thinking? lets start there.
I know its simple but, answer the above so we can walk through this i have enough patience to answer you brother.
Love ya.
Pastor deloa
Christmas should be celebrated if the Catholic church is the true church and their trinity doctrine truly represents the living God’s identity in the way that He intended, since the Catholics pushed it into Christianity. If the trinity is a false doctrine, then we must dismiss ALL systems of faith that have built their control from it because, before the council of Nicaea, their was another trinity doctrine…
Isis, Horus, Semiramis, (aka IHS as seen on Catholic symbols. I can guarantee IHS aren’t the initials of the Pope’s old High School.) We know they cloaked their pagan trinity of false gods into titles familiar to god’s people, the only people who withstood this blasphemy and were slaughtered for doing so. As the Christians went underground, people ignorant to the deception flocked, or were forced, to this so called version of “Christianity” and this is why it dominates today. Millions of people woefully ignorant and blind to the roots of the early Church, knowing only the doctrine of the great Whore (Catholic Church) and her gods, (IHS).
You can forget the JFK assassination, the council of Nicaea’s TRINITY doctrine’s replacement of Jesus’ name, Acts 2:38, signs following truth is the biggest cover up in history.
Again, Isis, Horus, Semiramis were smuggled into the one true religion under 3 titles familiar to the church but only accepted if the people lacked the revelation that Jesus is the name of the living God who fills the offices/functions of Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Hence the saying, Jesus, you are my all in all.
Now you don’t have to wonder why the trinity doctrine doesn’t allow these titles to be interchangable with one name. The bible is not false when it says, baptise in the NAME of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost (Matt 28:19 then says, In the NAME of Jesus EVERYWHERE ELSE). Isis, Horus, Semiramis, (IHS) These are different names. Trinitarians, you want to know your trinity? Welcome to your gods. There is no salvation in ANY other name but JESUS’ NAME! But you can be baptised all you want but without the revelation that Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, you will all die in your sins as baby Catholics no less confused than Johnny Roberts.
They’ve taken these titles for their own false gods and fed it to the entire world.
The apostles had an identity because they KNEW and took on the Father’s name which was revealed through the human flesh, the Son of God. That name was and is Jesus.
Now the real question is, how much do you stand to lose for standing up to Satan aka Horus (notice Time Warner’s symbol is the eye of Horus for all you who open up your house and family to the TV), and finding your identity in Jesus? If you’ve got a lot to lose, GREAT! It’s not a sacrifice if it doesn’t cost you nothin’ and you will be honored by God for your OBEDIENCE! Fear of loss is no excuse when you stand before the living God, Jesus on judgement day. He says to lose your life for him (Jesus) and you SHALL find it.
Now, let’s talk about Saturnalia, oops! I mean Christmas and the spirit of Satan’s greatest whore, oops! I mean the spirit of Christmas! Haha!
Deut 6:16 Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.
For those of you who may not know this, this LORD is actually YHWH or Yhovah in Hebrew.
Now, let’s take a look at how Jesus responds to Satan’s attempt to tempt him in the verse below.
Matt 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Matt 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
It’s funny how he uses the exact same verse found in Deut 6:16. A note for all trinitarian bible scholars, LORD (YHWH, Yhovah) in Hebrew is directly translated into Lord (Kurios) in Greek, and the choice of words were chosen by none other than Jesus himself. Remember Kurios, the exact word he chose to use here in Matthew 4:7.
And yes, I said, the devil was tempting God here. The devil was not tempting Jesus to tempt God. That’s a trinitarian view but it’s simply not so. God is Jesus and Jesus told the Devil not to tempt him, it was God speaking through his flesh. (2nd Timothy 3:16)
Acts 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest:
Guess what guys… Paul didn’t know who his Lord was! He said, Who art thou, Lord (Kurios)?
And what did the Lord (Kurios) say? Let’s read that again. And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. Jesus? Yes’m Jesus is Kurios!
One God, one begotten Son.
Okay, I appreciate all the “Oneness” crowd coming and reading, and I’ve been engaging in some conversation with Armando and others, but please keep in mind that the point of this blog is to discuss the teachings of the Church of Christ, not “Oneness”.
So, I’d appreciate it if we could keep conversation more centered on these men and their teachings. Sorry to have taken it off on a different path with Armando.
If you would like to discuss “Oneness” with me, you can email me directly at replycofc@yahoo.com, but meanwhile, let’s get our focus back on the blog.
im glad everyone can read history.
merry christmas johndobbs.
“god bless us everyone”
John 15
1. “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
I am a member of the Church of Christ, and I am happy to explain the Biblical reasons that mainstream members of the church don’t celebrate Easter and Christmas as “religious” holidays–although many of us have no problem with marking them as “civil” holidays, such as July 4 and Labor Day.
The reason is simple. Nowhere does the Bible say to celebrate Easter nor Christmas as a RELIGIOUS holiday. To do so is to add to the Bible, something which is expressly forbidden in the book of Revelation.
Many of us in the Church of Christ feel comfortable celebrating Christmas as a civil holiday–as I’ve heard it explained, we mark it like we would Labor Day, the 4th of July, or some other such holiday. I enjoy giving and receiving Christmas gifts and looking at Christmas lights.
But where I draw the line is that I think it’s wrong to put up nativity scenes, emphasize “Christmas carols,” and harp on the thought that “Jesus is the reason for the season.” As an earlier poster wrote, why didn’t Jesus mention anything about us celebrating his birthday?
For that matter, if we’re to celebrate Easter as a religious holiday than a day to hunt eggs, why doesn’t the Bible TELL us to? Are we not adding a man-made tradition to the word of God in making Easter a religious occasion.
I don’t speak for everyone in the Church of Christ. But these are the views of many faithful members of it, and thank you for the opportunity to express them on the very day the world calls Easter.
Phillip Williams in Gilmer, TX
If Christmas is for Christians to celebrate Christ’s birthday, then why do the atheist and all other non believers celebrate it also? Also, no mention of three wise men in the Bible and they did not bring presents to each other as man does now. We should give of ourselves all year long and remember his birth and resurrection all year long. Also, I don’t remember reading anything about Easter bunnies and eggs near his tomb or the cross nor a Christmas tree that was decorated when they brought the gifts
People will say, well, we don’t bow down to a Christmas tree, but we do celebrate it as the pagans did thousands of years ago that worshipped the Sun God which was Dec. 25th.
I use to do this very thing, Christmas and Easter, etc, until about 2 years ago when I came under conviction and then I started researching where all of these man made holidays started.
I am so thankful my eyes are opened.
In Christ,
Ann
I was raised Church of Christ and my mother refused to have a tree in the house, decorations, do gift exchange or even sing holiday carols. These were all forbidden.
However, she is older now, lonely and gets upset when family don’t come visit her on Christmas day. This is hypocrisy. You either believe Christmas is a holiday, or you don’t.
Its fine if you don’t want to celebrate Christmas, but stick to your beliefs and don’t expect others to celebrate it if you aren’t.
Greetings,
Can you please tell me how I can purchase a copy of the Nativity image on this website (with the 8 pointed Cross star). This is a very special Christmas image that I would be interested in purchasing. Thank you so much and Bless you.
Pax Domini,
Eric
Hi Eric,
I don’t know if it is available for purchase, but it was found here:
I’ve had that particular Nativity image as my laptop wallpaper for several months now.. love it.
Johnny said on his show last night that the church of Christ he goes to send their children to school with $20.00 in their book bags to try to lure other children with money to try to find Christmas in the Bible, which it is seeing that Jesus was born, and I think the birth of Jesus is something worth celebrating. I wonder if the school systems these kids are at are aware that those kids are doing this in school seeing that is a form gambling/betting and that is not allowed in school. Oh, and isn’t gambling against coC practice also??
Far as giving gifts, I see no problem. But Christmas or Dec. 25th was not the day Jesus was born and you may be shocked at what is behind this date Dec. 25th. Where did the tree come from?
If you want to play make believe as Santa and give your kids presents, why not? But this day is not a day we honor Christ. Maybe we should pick each Sunday and honor Him through the Lords Supper, seeing this day was set aside.
BTM line Christmas is man-made…
I didn’t say Dec.25th is the exact day He was born. Nor did I say anything about playing Santa. And as far as someone giving a gift that is something you give to someone you care about without expecting anything in return. They are luring other kids to try to do something with money.
I don’t watch Johnny anymore, so I really don’t know what he said or didn’t say. Given the fact that he offers $1000 to find the sinners prayer, I would guess this to be true. I wouldn’t call it gambling, seeing the kids cant lose the $20…simply because there nothing in the bible about Christmas.
Johnny probably wants to undo what denominational churches have done…most celebrate Christmas as something connected to Jesus birth. I grew up in church and we celebrated Christmas at church, even had Christmas plays and exchanged gifts. I always thought Christmas to be the day Jesus was born. We should be thankful that Jesus was born, but our real focus should be upon what He done on our behalf and maybe we should set aside each Sunday and honor Him through the Lords Supper, seeing he rose this very day so that we might be saved by His life.
Maybe he can offer his own members the 20 bucks to find a sign with the CoC name on it in the bible, I see a greeting but I don’t see authorization for a sign!
“Johnny said on his show last night that the church of Christ he goes to send their children to school with $20.00 in their book bags to try to lure other children with money to try to find Christmas in the Bible…”
If true, this is brainwashing and child exploitation of the worst kind.
Wow, not even November yet and the Christmas Controversy has already started.
Most folks I know who celebrate Jesus’ birth on Dec 25 know that he wasn’t born on December 25. Those folks also celebrate the rest of Jesus’ 33 years on the other 51 Sundays. What’s wrong with taking one Sunday a year to be collectively joyful that Jesus was born? Scripture seems to make a pretty big deal out of the event.
Nobody is saying its wrong to be thankful that Jesus was sent here to die for our sins and be raised to save those who obey Him – but, should we mix Santa, Jiggle bells, Christmas trees… and such with a day we claim to be honoring Christ?
A look at the word ‘Christmas’ indicates that it is a mixture. It not only includes the name of Christ, it also mentions the ‘mass.’ Now the mass — with its rituals, elaborate ceremony, pagan prayers for the dead, transubstantiation rites, etc. — is most assuredly a continuation of paganism. . . . Considering then that the name of these pagan rites, the Mass, is connected with the name of Christ in the word ‘Christ-mas,’ we immediately see an attempt to merge two conflicting systems together! Actually, to attach the name of Christ with the word ‘Mass,’ a pagan and heathenistic ritual, is to pollute the Holy name of our God!
December 25 was celebrated for thousands of years before the birth of the Messiah as the birth day of an ancient pagan god — THE SUN GOD
The apostles and leaders of the New Testament Church never bothered to find out when Jesus was born, as the date was not important to them. They did, however, observe the day of Jesus death — the PASSOVER festival, in commemoration of his giving his life for our sins!
This pagan “bash” was transformed by the Catholic Church into the festivities of Christmas, in honor of the Madonna and Child. The pagan Semiramis and Tammuz were changed into Mary and Jesus, and the paganism of the past centuries became “Christian” in name and belief.
Because the end of December was a celebration of some type for other people, we shouldn’t have a celebration at that time ourselves?
It’s wrong to celebrate Jesus’ birth because the disciples celebrated Jesus’ resurrection – even if we also celebrate Jesus’ resurrection – even at the same time? And you can’t celebrate both? I visited a church once at Christmas, and their focus that Sunday was Jesus on the cross, which I thought was a great.
I guess the bottom line question is – is it a sin for Christians to celebrate Jesus’ birth on December 25?
The wise men and the shepherds celebrated the birth of Jesus with praise and worship.
“And when they had come into the house, they saw the young Child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him.”
“Then the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things they had heard and seen, as it was told to them.”
On November 1, 2008 at 11:11 am Truth Said:
The wise men and the shepherds celebrated the birth of Jesus with praise and worship.
God says “hear ye him”
Mt 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Where did you hear Jesus say for anyone to celebrate His birthday?
Most of you want to do what He didn’t say and refuse to obey what He did say.
Jesus said “This do in remembrance of me”
Lu 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
On October 30, 2008 at 8:21 pm answeringchurchofchrist Said:
I guess the bottom line question is – is it a sin for Christians to celebrate Jesus’ birth on December 25?
Ro 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
This says that whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Faith comes by hearing God’s word.
Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Therefore if we don’t read in God’s word that we are to celebrate Jesus’s birthday on Dec. 25 can we do it by faith?
I do celebrate Christmas…commercially and definately Spiritually. This was a part of why I left the COC but not the ENTIRE part. (I was “Married” into it and liberated/divorced out of it
When Christmas/advent would roll around, we would be gone from the coc for 6 weeks to a different congregation to be involved in the advbent/Christmas activities.
We got a lot of flak, and even a threat or two, but we did it anyway, and still do……
In a way, it is just as much aa celebration of freedom, freedom we have in America to make our choices of how we celebrate and observe holidays. I do not try to force others to celebrate the way I do, and I will not allow others to do the same to me.
Just because something is tradition doesn’t make it correct. As it was mentioned before, the Catholic church started this celebration about 400 years after the church was established. Of course there is nothing wrong with opening presents, having dinner, and those types of things, because they are cultural traditions (just like the 4th of July).
Why would you celebrate the 4th of July in a worship service? Why should we use the time that we are to be honoring God, recalling Jesus’ sacrifice, and edifying each other to do something that the Bible says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about? Of course you would not bring the 4th of July into a worship service!
The same applies to Christmas, of course it has to do with Jesus’ birth and the nativity scene but when were we told by Jesus, God or any apostle to celebrate such a day? We weren’t.
Speak where the Bible speaks, be silent where it is silent.
My question is if the Church of Christ don’t believe in celebrating Christmas, why do they do it at their homes? What you don’t do at church, you should not do at home either. It’s sort of like you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. You should be true to one or the other. Remember, you can’t mix light with darkness and you cannot mix truth with a lie. You are either light and truth or darkness and false. If God did not say to do it, then by all means don’t do it. If he said to do it (Lord’s supper), then let’s never fail to do it. You call Christmas a CIVIL holiday, I think the Bible would refer to it as MAN MADE traditions in which it talks about a number of times in the New Testament. And reading the blogs,what about all of these different faiths? A TRUE CHRISTIAN who loves JESUS CHRIST has one truth faith, he does not compromise with the world.
Jean:
I’m sorry but you contradict yourself in everything you say. I don’t understand why but denominations attack the church because it is a fundamentalist. Why is that a bad thing? Do you watch TV at home and during worship? How about bringing pets into church? Let’s see, why don’t we have a big cookout in the middle of the service too? We believe it’s OK to do that at home, so it’s OK at worship to, right? That logic makes NO sense.
Jean–your statement “What you don’t do at church, you should not do at home either.” is horribly flawed. There are many things that are not sinful in nature that we do not do “at church.” As a lifelong member of the Church of Christ, I have always celebrated Christmas. I just don’t celebrate it as a religious holiday. I cannot find in the Bible any evidence that Christ was born on December 25. In fact, based on the information the Bible does provide as well as basic history, it is more likely that Christ was born much earlier in the year. But that’s beside the point. To answer the original question of what we do on Christmas morning…we celebrate family and our love for one another. We get together for a meal and fellowship, exchange gifts. In my home, on Christmas morning, we race to the tree to see what Santa left, we drink egg nog and we enjoy the fact that we are together as a family.
I don’t really see why anyone cares what we do on Christmas. Do our traditions take away from yours? Perhaps someone somewhere tried to impose his or her beliefs on you and you resent it but don’t judge the whole by a few. As a child, I was lambasted by a classroom full of Baptists for not celebrating “Jesus birthday.” I don’t dislike Baptists because of it…well, not all of them, anyway.
I am a member of a church of Christ and will say that yes, I do celebrate Christmas. However, we do not celebrate Christmas as a part of our collective worship service. Each member has has the ability to decide whether or not to celebrate Christmas privately. Some members will argue all day long that we have no authority to celebrate Christmas and that it is sinful. However, I think that you will find that these people are actually in the minority. A loud minority but a minority nevertheless. I think there is an important scriputure that can be rightly applied to the celebration among Christians, Romans 14:5-6. This is of course in the midst of a discussion on christian liberties. Meaning that these are not things that are of themselves sinful but may become sinful if practiced in the wrong way so as to cause a fellow believer to stumble. So, I would say that the practice of celebrating christmas is a matter of opinion. However, I would also say that Christmas can be practiced in a way that is sinful if it leads others astray. Christians must remember several points.
1)The celebration of Christmas is a tradition. We have not evidence to suggest that Jesus was actually born on Dec. 25th. On the contrary we have evidence to suggest that our current tradition is based on a pagan tradition. Our celebration has just been adapted to fit the Christian world view.
2)Traditions are not necessarily bad things.
3)We must be careful not to make tradition doctrine or to remove our doctrine from our tradition. What I mean is that we should not bind Christmas as a holiday that must be celebrated by all believers. Furthermore, we must not remove the christian doctrine that exists within the tradition (i.e. the fact that Jesus was born of a virgin and the account of his birth, the meaning we have given to the tree by using it as an object lesson for teaching the trinity or the idea of everlasting life [the evergreen tree appears to never die], etc.)
4) We should not flaunt our practice of Christmas in front of those who believe it is sinful. Just like how we should not eat meat in front of those who believe it to be sinful (Romans 14). We must put others ahead of ourselves.
Furthermore, I would like to say that we should probably not insert the celebration of Christmas into our worship service. I say this for reasons discussed in Romans 14 as well as the idea that just because we are free to do something personally does not mean we are free to do something corporately as believers. For example, a man a wife doctrinally should have sexual relations in their home. It is encouraged and expected and even glorifying to God. However, a man and wife are not free to have sexual relations during a corporate worship service. We should be careful to observe only those things for which we have the proper authority to do. Finally, we must remember that the purpose of the corprate worship service is focused on the death, burial, and ressurection of Christ. The center point and focus of our worship service should be the Lord’s Supper or communion and that idea and those presented during this time should guide the focus of the rest of the service.
I hope that this will help all to understand that just because some vocal members of churches of Christ have said some things doesn’t mean we all agree with them. There is a greater silent majority who will take a more balanced point of view on many issues.
It seems to me that the Catholics are the only ones who can spell correctly, so I suppose that must be a work of the devil too. *rolls eyes at this whole silly lot*
Read “Lamb” by Christopher Moore. It should clear a lot up for you. 😉 Jesus has a much better sense of humor than any of you seem to give Him credit for.
Clayton I agree with you about not creating a stumbling block for others in your services! However there is also the authority of the Elders that has to be a factor in the decision and their submitting to authority. Also where is the line drawn, if a single person joins the congregation and then declares that Sunday worship is wrong and a sin and that Saturday should be the day, obviously you do not suddenly change days to help them not stumble.
There is not a single person who claims that December 25th is really Jesus birthday, that day is most likely not possible to obtain in the scriptures. So we know he is born, someone takes Dec. 25th as the day. It’s not any more special then any other day, but it is the time we choose to give thanks for Jesus birth. If all of Christendom suddenly decided to celebrate Jesus birth on April 1st I would be fine with it because we don’t know when he was born.
Drawing the line can get very tricky and very ugly, after all technically electricity was not used in the original church, so we should use only candles for light and no microphones etc. And we should all meet in homes and not a building since the yearly church met that way. No carpet, they didn’t have it back then, maybe a rug from animal skin. We all have to wear clothing like they wore also since that is what they originally did. Gotta separate the men and women so we can do the Holy Kiss greeting. Oh we have to walk to the meeting since that is how a majority of people traveled, or on donkey or camel, and maybe a horse. Can’t use a saddle except the kind they used. Oh we all have to learn to speak Koine Greek in services since that is what was spoken, maybe Aramaic and maybe Hebrew also, possibly Latin, certainly no English of any type. No audiovisual oh and no internet so we will all have to meet physically to talk about scriptures.
Like I said where do we draw the line? Because there will always be someone who will tighten the line to be more Holy then we are!
Oh did anyone consider that this celebration that has it’s roots in pagan religion might have been observed to consume those who were in that practice? After all it would be easier to transition into Christian beliefs if they had a holiday you already celebrated!
Wow! My boss and his wife are COC and for the first time in my 40 plus years heard that COC don’t celebrate Christmas or Easter. I am falling off my chair. I have never heard this. I thought all Christians celebrated Christmas! I am not Catholic and I don’t mean to be rude, but you do realize that we are all breakoffs of the Catholic Church. Just an honest question, where did you decide it was Satanic to celebrate the birth of Jesus.(Whether it was Dec. 25 or not?)
Clayton:”For example, a man a wife doctrinally should have sexual relations in their home. It is encouraged and expected and even glorifying to God. However, a man and wife are not free to have sexual relations during a corporate worship service. ”
I am in total disbelief. I can’t believe you would compare this to the celebration of the entry of our Saviour, the Christ child into this world to”sexual relations during a corporate worship service”.
A sin? We have christmas eve and christmas day service. I am moved to tears at the beautiful honor that takes place at those services, (candlelight vigils) in taking in the full understanding of His glorious majesty coming to this earth for me! I don’t worship a tree, santa, presents…… I worship Him daily. Does it matter when he came?
I can’t imagine that to glorify Him, honor Him, adore Him could ever be concieved that He is looking at us saying”you are on the wrong track here!”
But as my boss said, coc are the only ones going to heaven, so I guess I am way way off on everything according to you.
so, the member of coc can say it but I put it in context with Christmas, and you remove it. I see how your site works.
Hiya happy,
Actually, I don’t think you do see how the blog works. All comments sit in the queue waiting to be approved. When I go online, I usually come to the blog first thing and approve comments. All of yours have been approved, none have been removed.
Mr. Answer
Welcome to the blog, btw. Hope you enjoy your stay!
My sincere apologies! I don’t see how it works…. ha.
Thanks!
Hi All,
It’s been awhile since I’ve posted, hope all of you are well. While growing-up in the c of c, we celebrated Christmas as a secular holiday. It was all about getting presents (or not getting presents and disappointment) and putting up a tree. Now that I’m a Methodist, I am learning all about Advent. I am so sad that I missed out on this beautiful message as a child. Now, I am sad for my mostly c of c family for what they are missing. When you take Christ out of Christmas, then all it is is an empty, materialistic, commercial holiday. I can’t wait for my first Christmas Eve service! The idea of the Advent with the fourth Sunday before Christmas emphasizing hope, the third one focusing on peace and the second one on joy are wonderful messages. I can’t wait for this Sunday to learn about the first one. Sorry if I have the order wrong I’m just learning. No one cheat and tell me what this Sunday’s Advent is ’cause you will spoil my child-like surprise and wonder!!
i actually thought the site was down.
i have not been here in weeks
Happy, you are in error to say that “we are all breakoffs of the Catholic Church.” The Catholic church actually started several hundred years after the church of Christ was founded by the Christ himself.
As for Christmas, Ecclesiastes 7:1 tells us that it is the day of a man’s death that is important – not his birth. This in no way minimizes the importance of Christ’s miracle birth to a virgin which is important because it verifies the prophecies made about Christ.
I personally have celebrated Christmas all of my life, though it is as a secular holiday – not a religious one. True many of the Christmas icons such as Christmas trees, candy canes and more were derived from Pagan worship I don’t have a problem with those items because they are not inherently evil, only their use as an icon of pagan worship is evil. This is much the same as some of the songs we (members of the church of Christ) sing in our worship service. The music to some of the older songs were originally bar room tunes that had the words changed so that they were sung in worship services. Because they were originally bar room songs does not make the tunes evil or bad, however if someone were offended by the song being sung it would be wrong to sing it.
I read all posts. My reason for visiting is because the pastor at my church changed and no longer celebrates Christmas. He shown the History Channel’s program. Since this change, people have left the church, others keep their celebration on the “down low” and others have converted. My opinion is that we should be unified in essential doctrine, and liberated in non essentials and exhibit love in all things. To Christmas or not to Christmas, for me falls under the non essential category. This view, avoids a stumbling block, division and strife. My pastor’s personal conviction of Christmas is being preached from the pulpit as a sin, for those who do it are considered heathen.
We are called to love one another and not judge one another Luke 6:31-35, Matt 7:1-5, James 4:11-12. For upon accepting Christ, all are given a free gift, the Holy Spirit John 7:37-39, Ephesians 1:13, Galatians 3:2, 2 Corinthians 1:22, Ephesians 4:30 And I am sure all lover’s of Christ Jesus want to be fully filled continually and not quench the Holy Spirit. Sin will separate us from the filling, and obedience to God will maintain it. I am sure you know this. So Romans 14:5 paraphrase-Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. Let each act as he thinks right. If he thinks he ought to observe the days, let him do as his conscience demands. If he thinks otherwise, let him not observe them.
Charlton, let me add to your comment that “The Catholic church actually started several hundred years after the church of Christ was founded by the Christ himself.”
Technically you are correct that the Catholic Church was started years after the church Christ started began, 1054 years to be exact. The Eastern Orthodox Church would be the New Testament Church that has been around from the begining and the Catholics broke off from us in 1054.
As to the topic of discussion, yes I will celebrate Christmas (or Holy Nativity as we also call it). Our time of preparation began on Nov 15th. We will have service at 11pm Christmas Eve and it will continue until about 2am. We’ll continue to celebrate with various observances until January 6th, the feast of Epiphany. I will also celebrate on January 7th with those in the church that observe Nativity that day. Christmas has always been a particularly spirtual time for me, even more so since I became Orthodox. I enjoy the secular things about the holiday also, but Christmas is first and foremost a worship day.
Six months ago, I returned to the CoC after being gone for 30 years. Wednesday, I attended the “devotional” service on Christmas Eve.
It was one of the most Christ-less, Spirit-less services that I’ve ever attended. Only about 1/4 of the normal Wednesday night crowd was there. And it wasn’t because they were traveling.
It was painful, watching the men struggling mightily to talk about anything other than Luke, chapter 2. It was an exercise in pride and arrogance, and any Pharasee would have been proud. Seriously – the defiant attitude of the evening obliterated any chance that actual worship would take place. It was the least Christian gathering that I have ever attended. And these are people that I’ve worshiped happily with, for half a year. It is like a group of pod people took over their bodies, for one horrible hour.
Any visitor that stumbled in, would never have come back. This jihad against Christmas is in itself a stumbling block to the unsaved. It makes us look foolish, and just flat out weird. I will say it again – your dogma against reading from the book of Luke, on Dec. 24, is costing souls. It is costing souls to be lost for eternity, and you will be judged for this foolishness, some day.
Look at the company we keep – the ACLU, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and the CoC, all standing shoulder-to-shoulder, in the War on Christmas. It is something you need to pray over. Badly.
tim,
id like to hear more
lee
Lee,
I am a member of an active, growing congregation of the CoC. My wife and I had been attending the denomination that she was raised in, until we felt called to move to another church. After a six-month search, we ended up at the CoC, which I had attended as a child.
There is much to praise this particular church for – their commitment to evangelism is second to none. Their love for each other is manifest. Their devotion to the Word is admirable, especially their Sunday School programs. In six short months, we have found a place to use our gifts to contribute in a way that we never have, before.
They have gone far to shed the idiotic harshness and slavish devotion to the law, that was such a trademark of the CoC of my youth. That’s why their Christmas “devotional” was such an unwelcome shock. It was out of character for them. I discovered yesterday, that the reason that the attendance was so poor, is because another CoC across town has a simple Christmas service (readings from Luke and Isaiah, plus traditional religious carols), and most of my new congregation goes there, every year, to get a reprieve from our own blisteringly non-Christmas service.
The Christmas “devotional” service at my new church home was devoid of any joy – mechanical readings, mechanical standard hymns, mechanical prayers. There were some awkwardly-worded references to Christmas – sort of a, “hey, we aren’t anti-Christmas, don’t think we are odd – we just love Frosty and Rudolf, but we don’t dare mention the coming of the Messiah, so let’s all read Corinthians again, and forget about those pesky Harking Heralds, the very mention of which will lead us all into an orgy of Saturnalian debauchery”.
The worst tragedy was the lost souls that might have come in – the ones moved to seek God, if even once a year. All those thousands of unchurched, in the suburbs that ring the building. I know that at least one agnostic family, moved by the memory of Christmases past, would have entered the doors of our building, had we used our signboard to welcome them. If only one lost family would have been moved to come, and hear a chapter of one of the Gospels, then what a night it would have been! As it was, there were no visitors, and if one had appeared, he would have run screaming into the night at the bizarro nature of the proceedings.
Instead, there was a diminished, divided group of Christians – half worshiping joyfully in another congregation across town, wishing that they were in their church home, among those they loved, and the other half, publicly patting themselves on the back for their righteousness, for being able to put up a tree, wrap presents, and actively ignore the birth of Christ. It was all just sad. Our ancient enemy was cracking a tall one, and rejoicing at his ability to turn the love of the Word, first into fanaticism, and then into into the slavery that Paul warned us about.
My wife has grown to love our new church, but she remarked that had she attended a service like this before we became involved, she never would have joined. It wasn’t the lack of a Christmas service – that was neither here nor there. It was the prideful, “up yours, all you sinners who have a Christmas service” attitude. THAT was the most unChristian thing of all.
Thank you, Lee, for asking, and have a joyous Christmas season!
Charlton,
The History of the Catholic Church from apostolic times covers a period of nearly 2,000 years, [1] making it the world’s oldest and largest institution. It dates its beginning to the confession of Peter, and the establishment of the Church by Jesus Christ. [2] [3] [4] [5] Catholic doctrine states that Christ is the head of his Mystical Body, the Catholic Church.[6]
(This is from Wikipedia).
I will venture to say though, most protestant groups including mine(methodist) regonize that we are a break off of the Catholic Church.
The Church of Christ from all that I can gather from ya’lls sites in very new. Some groups (United church of christ) founded in 1957.
🙂
The Catholic Church does not rely upon scripture alone to form her doctrines.
That is what Protestants do.
Catholic doctrines existed before one word of the New Testament was written and long before it was canonized. Catholics only cite scripture b/c they know that Protestants will only accept scripture so they do the best they can with what implication and hints there are in scripture.
The Christian Faith was taught to the apostles by Christ and passed on to worthy men able to teach long before any of the Gospels were written. The Catholic Christian Faith PRE-existed scripture.
Christmas songs and carols are what drove me to stop going to the CoC this past Christmas. I missed the music and decorations so much I started attending ‘other congregations of the Body Of Christ’ (Methodist, Lutheran, Episcopal).
Now, I have no feelings to go back and explain why I left. I just wanna stay gone, and be a visitor to other churches.
My friends at the CoC must be confused by me now. Where is she, they are asking.
Your statement, that “church of Christ folks don’t celebrate Christmas” is somewhat vague. What exactly must one/family do to “celebrate” Christmas…if it’s putting up lights, the tree, stockings, sending christmas cards, making candy, buying gifts, etc…then my family always celebrated Christmas and I feel confidant that many in our congregation did and still do. So I would say “yes” that “members of the church of Christ” do celebrate Christmas. I would also say that “no” we do not celebrate Christmas in the sense that December the 25 is the actual day of Christ’s birth. We see this day as a day recognized historically by the Roman Catholic Church, and if it is indeed the actual day of his birth, the Bible calls for no special celebration. However, I personally feel that there is no harm committed if one chooses to openly express his desire for Christ’s birth on December 25 and I think many would agree…So in conclusion I would say that most members of the church of Christ celebrate Christmas in the “usual” sense, they just celebrate it more “generically” and with more caution in recognizing it as “Christ’s birth”
Hi John, welcome to the blog.
Most of my Protestant Christian friends would agree with you. I don’t know of many adults who believe that Jesus was literally born on December 25, although there are probably some who do. And I’ve never heard it preached out of the pulpit that it is the Lord’s actual day of birth, although it might have been in some pulpits.
However, the church of Christ folks in our community who host the TV shows would probably disagree with you that “there is no harm committed if one chooses to openly express his desire for Christ’s birth on December 25” exactly for the reason you give, that there isn’t a date given in Scripture, there’s not a command given to celebrate his birth, and no record of the New Testament church having such celebrations.
But I’ll let them answer that for themselves should they so desire.
Personally, I think the fact that the angels celebrated his birth is a good precedent (Luke 2:13), but what do I know? I’m just a Christ-follower from the church of Christ [universal] – and not a part of their hyperconservative clique.