Spiritual Gifts

Do they exist today,

or were they only for a certain time and then ceased?

Discuss.

(This conversation was started on another place on this blog.  To get caught up, you can visit that place here.)

65,000+

answeringchurchofchrist.wordpress.com is pleased to announce that we have now passed the

65,000 HIT MARK!

Everyone grab a piece of cake from the “giggleing little girl” below:

This means that since we started our little blog at the end of last year, people have visited us over 65,000 times.  I don’t know who all of those people are, but I appreciate everyone who has come and participated in our discussions civilly.  

This blog was started to discuss the teachings and methods of three hyperconservative  television personalities, so that Christians in our community and elsewhere could learn what these men teach, and how to best participate in discussions with them. 

Also, if members of the churches where they teach wanted to learn more about Christians in other churches, this is a place they could come and discourse without fear.

Finally, it has been this writer’s hope that this blog will, somehow, ultimately, be a place where brothers and sisters in Christ from various Christian backgrounds will have their faith built up - and will gain a better and more clear understanding of who their Lord and Savior was, is, and is to be - and about the amazing grace that is offered through Him.

“Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.”  Jude 1:24,25 

Eternal Security

Eternal Security, or Perseverance of the saints, maintains that none who are truly saved can be condemned for their sins or finally fall away from the faith. 

Discuss.

By the way - please avoid cutting and pasting arguments of other writers from other sites to prove your argument.  If you want to cut and paste a bit here and there, that is fine, just put the URL where you got the info.  You can also reference another URL, too, if you want us to go there to see what that writer says.  Thanks! 

Some Interesting Links

My recent online wanderings have led me to a couple of interesting church of Christ related websites.

First, is Journey to Orthodoxy.  This is a blog by Nathan Lee Lewis, who was formerly Southern Baptist, but has since become Orthodox Christian.  He makes some pretty interesting pleas to Campbellite churches of Christ.

Second, is a website I found on JP Manzi’s blog, and it is a bulletin board for church of Christ persons who have since gravitated towards the Catholic church.  It is called church of Christ to Catholic.

As a Protestant Christian, it is interesting for me to see these other two streams of Christianity, and how they have developed through history.  And it is interesting that they all also claim the mantle of THE church of Christ.  

Hope everyone had a nice 4th of July!

Happy Independence Day!

 

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.

— John Hancock

New Hampshire:
Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton

Massachusetts:
John Hancock, Samuel Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry

Rhode Island:
Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery

Connecticut:
Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott

New York:
William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris

New Jersey:
Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark

Pennsylvania:
Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer,James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross

Delaware:
Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean

Maryland:
Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton

Virginia:
George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton

North Carolina:
William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn

South Carolina:
Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton

Georgia:
Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton

Churches of Christ and the Emerging Church

Believe it or not, I have found several blogs of people in the churches of Christ who are trying to figure out this new movement called “the Emerging Church”.  

Personally, I’m not completely sold on the Emerging Church, but I do think that it is good that they are trying to figure out how to relate with the 21st Century western culture.  I appreciate their willingness to thrash through the issues of traditional -vs- Scriptural.  And I think that especially hyperconservative churches of Christ need to ask themselves hard questions about this issue (as do all Christians from every Christian background).

Of course, some Emergents go too far and throw the baby out with the bathwater, so that Scripture plays little role.  But I appreciate that God is using this movement to continue the building of His kingdom.

The church of Christ and the Emerging Church?  Wow.  That’s a union I didn’t see coming.  It’ll be an interesting discussion!

You can read about it here.

And here.

And here.

If you Google “church of Christ” and “emerging” or “emergent church” together, you’ll find more. 

Thoughts?

A Highly Recommended Website

Key Life is a radio and internet ministry that broadcasts out of Orlando, Florida.  It is hosted by Steve Brown, who is an author, seminary professor, and all-around good joe.  He has an amazing Biblical grasp on the grace of God, which I would say is at the heart of the things he talks about.  

I would mostly encourage that you listen to his “Key Life” podcasts.  If you have itunes, you can also subscribe to his podcasts there as well.  He also has interesting programs that deal more with Christians working in the larger culture in his “The Brown Sessions” podcasts.

Visit Key Life here.

And please note that we have added a new link section over on the right where we will add links of websites that are fantastic for visitors of this blog to check out.  Look for new links regularly!

My “Aha!” Moment

I had an “Aha!” moment just now.

No, not that kind of “Aha!” moment.  You know, like a “Eureka!” moment.  Or an “Of Course!” moment.

Let me explain.  A few minutes ago, I was walking past a house on my street and heard some sort of “Hillsongy” P&W music coming from the window. I didn’t know the song, but it was one of those obviously Christian songs - and as notoriously bad Christian music can be, I don’t mean “obviously” as a critique. In fact, it made me nostalgic for a few years back when I listened to a lot of that sort of music, and it also reminded me of some pretty significant things that happened to me at that time, in my Christian walk.

Then, the “Aha!”, “Eureka!”, “Of course!” moment hit… one of the reasons why I (and probably so many other people) get so angry and sad about the message that the hyperconservatives are trying to get out, at least in my community in NC/VA.      

According to their message, the Jesus that died on the cross for me and for so many others was insufficient.  His death was insufficient.  His defeat of hell and the grave was insufficient.  The blood that he gave as an atoning sacrifice for our sins was insufficient.  

According to their message, the Jesus that walked with me and my family through personal tragedy (the death of my father and the burning of my church not long after) was false.  The comfort we felt from the Holy Spirit as we grieved was false comfort.  The unity that we experienced with our fellow church members was a farce.

According to their message, the Jesus that has inspired men and women through the centuries to give up everything they have to work with people who have nothing was anti-Christ.   Nate Saint, Ed McCully, Pete Fleming, Jim Elliot and Roger Youderian?  All Lost.  Lottie Moon?  Lost.  William Carey?  Lost.  The people talked about at the Voice of the Martyrs?  Lost.  All the faithful followers of Jesus through the ages who have believed differently than they do?  Lost.

Why?  How could this be?  It is because they all served an insufficient Jesus.

The Promised Land

And for what? What is this wonderful alternative that they have set up? This Newly Restored Promised Land to which they are attempting to lead us?  Certainly it will inspire a new generation of people who want to go to the four corners of the earth to share the Good News of God’s grace!   Well, let’s look and see.

“If you don’t take the Lord’s Supper each first day of the week you are lost!”

“If you play a guitar in a church service, you are lost!”

“If you aren’t baptized exactly the way I say you should be according to my interpretation of Scripture, you are lost!”

“If you don’t follow the rules I have set up from my “study” of Scripture, you are lost!”

“If you aren’t in a church that I approve of, you are lost!”

And, finally, said to the “unbeliever”:  “we are here to defeat destroy you and uplift truth”!

It Is For Freedom You Have Been Set Free

When I let myself think about the bondage that they are setting up for people through their deft mishandling of the Word of God, it makes me really, really, sad. It makes me sad for the people who will fall for their mishandling. It makes me sad for the people who halfway listen to them and, hearing them quoting Scripture, think that they are somehow authoritative. It makes me sad because it is an attempt to turn the Gospel into something that it is not - a prison, when Christ came to set the prisoner free (Luke 4:18); to give us freedom (John 8:32).

(image from here)

The Word as Blunt Weapon

“But they make people go back to the Bible!” some would say. Yes, that is true, but do they make people go back and sit at the feet of the Master to grow closer to Him, or do they make people go back so that they can also learn to prooftext the Word and fight with it like some sort of blunt weapon?

(Image from here.)

An Answering Voice

And I was suddenly glad that I had started this blog, so that there would be an answering voice out there.  JR likes to ridicule us, that we may only have five (or so) people commenting here each day, but my blog status report tells me that we have hundreds of people visiting and reading each day.

It’s my prayer that some of them might be people who are looking for a way out of the bondage of this way of thinking, and that somehow we might help them to see that Christ exists outside of their assembly, regardless of what they might hear from the pulpit on Sunday morning.

My Prayer

And to any of those folks who might have stopped in here today, I share Paul’s prayer from Ephesians 3:

“I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge – that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.” 

(image from here)

 

Christian Unity

This looks like an interesting blog from a church of Christ elder from Georgia, Alan Rouse.  The title of the blog is “Christian Unity”, and it seems that, unlike the hyperconservatives in our area, when he says “unity” he doesn’t mean “uniformity” (thanks, Katherine).  He means actual unity.  Look for his blog to be added to the blogroll!

I would encourage his posting entitled “Advocating Against Unity“.

For any of our local hyperconservatives who may click over to look at the blog, please note that the man is very much Biblical in his arguments, and he seems to have a very Christlike attitude.  Take notes!

For those who didn’t grow up in a church named “church of Christ”…

If you are trying to understand where these folks are coming from, I would highly recommend spending some time on the ex-church of Christ website - especially in the “Church of Christ: Doctrine & Culture” board.  There are some insight into this culture for those of us who weren’t raised in it.  

It’s really interesting to me as a person who was raised in a different faith tradition, and you might find it to be so as well.  At the least, it is informative to understanding any hyperconservative churches of Christ that might be in your community.