Faith comes by hearing…

A cool website I just discovered…

From the site:

who_we_are_splash

“God’s Word is for every tribe, people, and tongue.

Faith Comes By Hearing is committed to reaching the nations with the Word of God in Audio, offering the Bible in a format that will connect with the world’s 50% illiterate population. To accomplish this enormous task, the Lord has assembled a group of committed leaders and dedicated servants of His Word to develop into a reality the vision of bringing His church together and making disciples.

The word “nation” is the Greek word ethnos, which means “of the same language and people group,” not the political borders of a country. The worldwide Bible translation and distribution ministries have determined there are 6,809 ethnos, or nations, in the world, most of which cross many political borders.

Mission Statement: Faith Comes By Hearing records and uses heart-language Audio Bibles to bring His church together and make disciples from every nation, tribe, language, and people.”

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91 thoughts on “Faith comes by hearing…

  1. Thank you for the post. I appreciate you blogging about Faith Comes By Hearing.

    We believe God’s Word is for all people, but unfortunately so many cannot read. Jesus told us to go and make disciples and teach them to obey everything that He commanded. But where are those commands? In His Word. Thank you for helping people see the need to give people God’s Word in a format they can use and understand.

    By the way, you and your readers can download a free Audio Bible at http://www.FaithComesByHearing.com.

    ’til all have heard,
    Jon D. Wilke
    Faith Comes By Hearing

  2. Hey I know that I have not been around here for awhile… but just wanted to let you know that I am going to Beijing, China in March with an awesome ministry called Let’s Start Talking (http://www.lst.org) which is a Church of Christ sponsored ministry that sends people all throughout the world to help bring people to Christ by reading English with them (usually on shorter term trips from 2 to 6 weeks-in this case we will be there 2 weeks). You should check out their site-it is a great ministry, and I am REALLY excited about this opportunity to go reach the people of China!! I only committed about a month ago to go, and by the incredible grace of God my trip was fully funded (over $3,000) in less than a month (as of today). What an incredible testament to His faithfulness!! 🙂

    Anyway, I just wanted to check in and let you know…you can read more on my blog, and I wanted to ask for prayers for our team (there are 4 of us and a baby going), that God will open up the hearts of the people we will be reading and studying with, that our eyes will be open to the opportunities God provides and we will be willing to be His tools to further His kingdom.

    Thank you! Also, I plan on blogging about it during the trip-so check back in periodically for updates if you would like!!

    Hope you are all doing well. Blessings~

  3. Faith comes by hearing…
    Good Blog, let’s see how most people on here “hear”

    1)Mr 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

    WHAT’S THAT JESUS, ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS BELIEVE?

    2) Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    WHAT’S THAT PAUL, WE’RE SAVED THROUGH “FAITH ONLY”?

    3) Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    WHAT’S THAT PETER, DID YOU SAY BE BAPTIZED FOR AN OUTWARD SHOWING FOR AN INWARD FAITH?

    4) 1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    I UNDERSTAND JOHN, I KNOW HIM IF I DON’T KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. RIGHT?

    5) 1Pe 3:21 ¶ The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

    RIGHT PETER, THATS EXACTLY WHAT MY BAPTIST PREACHER SAYS “BAPTISM DOTH ALSO NOT SAVE US”

    6) Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

    I HEAR YOU PAUL, SINGING AND PLAYING ELECTRIC GUITARS AND DRUMS AND PIANOS EVEN SCRAAATCHING SOME RECORDS EVERY NOW AND THEN.

    7) Ac 20:7 ¶ And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

    RIGHT I UNDERSTAND,WE BRAKE BREAD UPON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK EVERY 4TH OR 6TH MONTH OR WHENEVER IT’S CONVENIENT,RIGHT? I HEAR YA.

    8) Mt 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

    SO YOUR’E SAYING THAT IF I CONFESS THAT I WAS BORN A SINNER, THEN I’LL BE SAVED. I HEARD THAT.

    9) Mt 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

    DID I HEAR YOU RIGHT JESUS, YOU CONSIDER EVERYBODY YOUR BROTHER, AND SISTER, AND MOTHER.

    10) 1Co 1:10 ¶ Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

    PAUL, THAT’S PRETTY CLEAR, SO WE ALL SHOULD DIVIDE UP AND TEACH DIFFERENT DOCTRINES.

    11) Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    WE HEAR YOU JESUS, YOU’RE GOING TO BUILD YOUR CHURCH ON PETER AND NAME IT AFTER JOHN SMYTH, JOSEPH SMITH, CHARLES T. RUSSELL, MARY BAKER EDDY, JOHN WESLEY, ELLEN G. WHITE, AND ANYONE ELSE WHO TEACHES DOCTRINES OF MEN.

    YEA, THE WAY MOST PEOPLE IN DENOMINATIONS HEAR GOD’S WORD THE ONLY ONE’S THEY CAN TEACH IS THE ILLITERATE.

  4. On February 14, 2009 at 1:03 pm BCV Said:

    Faith comes by hearing…
    Good Blog, let’s see how most people on here “hear”

    1)Mr 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

    WHAT’S THAT JESUS, ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS BELIEVE?

    The Thief on the cross was lied to then! But then again it does not say the following, he that is baptized not will be damned, and if you want to try the the thief was baptized I suggest you reread Matthew and Mark again as both criminals are quoted as giving Jesus a hard time:

    Matthew 27:44In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

    Mark 15:32Let this Christ, this King of Israel, come down now from the cross, that we may see and believe.” Those crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

    So based on what you believe someone is a liar, Jesus for telling an unbaptized man he was going to make it to paradise, or is the thief actually baptized and Matthew and Mark and lying about the account of BOTH criminals heaping insults on him since it is highly unlikely that someone who believed already and was baptized would insult him.

    2) Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    WHAT’S THAT PAUL, WE’RE SAVED THROUGH “FAITH ONLY”?

    3) Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    WHAT’S THAT PETER, DID YOU SAY BE BAPTIZED FOR AN OUTWARD SHOWING FOR AN INWARD FAITH?

    4) 1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    I UNDERSTAND JOHN, I KNOW HIM IF I DON’T KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. RIGHT?

    Typical to drop a passage and not give it in the context of what was being talked about, It the first verses it is talking about not sinning and that if we do sin we have an advocate, thus he is talking about the transition from a sinful life to strive to not sin and thus keep the commands then later he lists the following command:

    9Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. 10Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble. 11But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness; he does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded him.

    Now considering you stand with others who refuse to call others who follow Christ brothers, and have condemned all mankind except your group to hell, how is your hatred of other believers following the above?

    5) 1Pe 3:21 ¶ The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

    RIGHT PETER, THATS EXACTLY WHAT MY BAPTIST PREACHER SAYS “BAPTISM DOTH ALSO NOT SAVE US”

    Are you a Jew who killed Jesus? Because that is who Peter is speaking to in Acts 2! By your standards Cornelius is not saved since he did not follow Acts 2:38 properly!

    And I am still waiting for a CoCer to show me where the Angel in Acts 10 says salvation to Cornelius that Peter quotes in Acts 11!

    6) Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

    I HEAR YOU PAUL, SINGING AND PLAYING ELECTRIC GUITARS AND DRUMS AND PIANOS EVEN SCRAAATCHING SOME RECORDS EVERY NOW AND THEN.

    WOW WOW WOW you mean the CoC sing in the language if Angles??? Since spiritual has to do with the Holy Spirit! Since the Spiritual is from the Greek word pneumatikos and 1 Cor 13:1 talks about the tongues of men and Angels then perhaps they are singing in the language of the spirit! Or were the Black Spiritual songs already in existence? 😉

    7) Ac 20:7 ¶ And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

    RIGHT I UNDERSTAND,WE BRAKE BREAD UPON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK EVERY 4TH OR 6TH MONTH OR WHENEVER IT’S CONVENIENT,RIGHT? I HEAR YA.

    Jesus the one who is in charge said: Luke 22:19And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”

    He didn’t say when but to do it in remembrance of him! Acts 2:46 they met everyday breaking bread, why are you not doing the same since this is one of the examples? Or could they both be doing the same thing and keeping Luke 22:19? Of course this also begs the question does the CoC stop people from owning property and making them sell all their property and goods for the betterment of the church! Or is this example not held by the CoC and if it is not held and yet it is part of the example you are not following the “commands”. So I guess you don’t know him do you? 😉

    8) Mt 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

    SO YOUR’E SAYING THAT IF I CONFESS THAT I WAS BORN A SINNER, THEN I’LL BE SAVED. I HEARD THAT.

    It would appear the passage says that if I confess Jesus before men he does the same before the Father.

    9) Mt 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

    DID I HEAR YOU RIGHT JESUS, YOU CONSIDER EVERYBODY YOUR BROTHER, AND SISTER, AND MOTHER.

    10) 1Co 1:10 ¶ Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

    PAUL, THAT’S PRETTY CLEAR, SO WE ALL SHOULD DIVIDE UP AND TEACH DIFFERENT DOCTRINES.

    You do divide up, there are many CoC who have divided up over everything from kitchens to support of colleges etc. So unless you have gotten rid of the log, I would think you should be dealing with the rest of the CoC denomination before going after anyone else, or do you hold to the delusion that you are united as a group?

    But I do agree that many have used their own rights to override and crush others instead of following Paul’s teaching about tolerance of others beliefs.

    Romans 14 teaches about how real unity that allows differences should occur but it appears that not one is will to submit to that teaching and thus we must force all others to submit to be exactly as we are.

    11) Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    WE HEAR YOU JESUS, YOU’RE GOING TO BUILD YOUR CHURCH ON PETER AND NAME IT AFTER JOHN SMYTH, JOSEPH SMITH, CHARLES T. RUSSELL, MARY BAKER EDDY, JOHN WESLEY, ELLEN G. WHITE, AND ANYONE ELSE WHO TEACHES DOCTRINES OF MEN.

    No you missed the passage completely the “on this” is the truth that Peter spoke “you are the Christ the son of the living God” otherwise Jesus would not have used the others or Paul for that matter to build the church!

    YEA, THE WAY MOST PEOPLE IN DENOMINATIONS HEAR GOD’S WORD THE ONLY ONE’S THEY CAN TEACH IS THE ILLITERATE.

    They get the same treatment from some of the CoC who have axes to grind and bitter roots, the difference is that your master uses fear of hell to make sure you tow the line!

  5. On February 15, 2009 at 4:37 pm walkinginlove Said:

    The Thief on the cross was lied to then!

    WIL,
    WHY DO YOU INSIST ON BEING SAVED LIKE THE THIEF ON THE CROSS? HE IS NOT YOUR EXAMPLE.
    DID THE THIEF BELIEVE THAT JESUS DIED, WAS BURIED, AND RAISED ON THE THIRD DAY?
    HAD JESUS’ NEW TESTAMENT WENT INTO EFFECT?

    Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

    WIL SAID,

    how is your hatred of other believers following the above?

    WIL,

    DO YOU LOVE THE DEVIL? HE’S A BELIEVER…….Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

    Ps 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

    WIL SAID,
    By your standards Cornelius is not saved since he did not follow Acts 2:38 properly!

    WIL, WHY DO YOU NOT THINK THAT CORNELIUS WOULD NOT OBEY PETER’S COMMAND TO BE BAPTIZED FOR THE REMISSION OF SIN?……….Ac 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

    WIL SAID,
    WOW WOW WOW you mean the CoC sing in the language if Angles???

    I SUPPOSE YOU MEANT “language of Angels” ANYHOW, WE SING ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT.

    WIL SAID,
    He didn’t say when but to do it in remembrance of him!

    WIL, HE DID SAY WHEN. HERE HE ISN’T TALKING ABOUT A COMMON MEAL……….
    1Co 11:33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.

    BUT HERE HE IS TALKING ABOUT A COMMON MEAL…..
    34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.

    THE DISCIPLES CAME TOGETHER TO BREAK BREAD ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK…….
    Ac 20:7 ¶ And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

    WIL SAID,
    It would appear the passage says that if I confess Jesus before men he does the same before the Father.

    MY QUESTION IS, WHY DOESN’T ALL THE SCRIPTURE “APPEAR” TO YOU IN THIS MANNER?

    WIL SAID,
    Romans 14 teaches about how real unity that allows differences should occur but it appears that not one is will to submit to that teaching and thus we must force all others to submit to be exactly as we are.

    YOU CANNOT MAKE A BLANKET STATEMENT LIKE THAT, JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO SUBMIT TO GOD’S TEACHING DOESN’T MEAN NO ONE DOES.

    WIL SAID,
    No you missed the passage completely the “on this” is the truth that Peter spoke “you are the Christ the son of the living God” otherwise Jesus would not have used the others or Paul for that matter to build the church!

    NO I WAS SIMPLY SHOWING HOW THE CATHOLIC CHURCH MISSED THE PASSAGE, WOULD YOU SAY THE CATHOLIC’S WERE RIGHT IN THEIR BELIEF THAT PETER WAS THE FIRST POPE?

    WIL SAID,
    the difference is that your master uses fear of hell to make sure you tow the line!

    YOU BETTER BELIEVE HE DOES, AND HE HAD IT WRITTEN OVER 2000 YEARS AGO…….
    2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
    10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

    THIS IS WHAT JESUS SAID CONCERNING FALSE TEACHERS….
    Mt 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

    On February 15, 2009 at 9:10 pm Truth Said:
    Amen, WIL!!!

    WONDER IF AKA “TRUTH” WILL AMEN JESUS?

  6. BCV,

    I am not going to get caught up in your contentious arguments.

    But I will reply to one of your comments:

    BCV said:
    O YOU LOVE THE DEVIL? HE’S A BELIEVER…….Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

    Reply:
    The demons don’t believe Jesus as their Savior, or would you say they do.

  7. Hey…did I mention I was going to China?! 😉

    Seriously, how much longer are we going to miss the point?! This is why I finally had to walk away-it’s just hard to watch when there are so many people dying out there without ever knowing the love of Christ!! Let’s share it with the world!!

  8. Rock on, Katherine. Hope your trip goes well, and that your opportunity to share JC are many!

  9. Katherine, you are a shining example of what Francis of Assissi once taught:

    “Preach the gospel unto all nations. And if you must use words.”

    We have never personally met, but I have no doubt that the light of Christ shines in your life. And that He will use it mightily – as He already is – to reach out to others.

    Our thoughts and prayers are with you, good lady 🙂

  10. So if we don’t hear about the baptist church , presbyterian church etc…. how can we have faith in them?

  11. On February 16, 2009 at 11:28 pm Truth Said:
    The demons don’t believe Jesus as their Savior, or would you say they do.

    DENOMINATIONS ARE THE ONES THAT SAY ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS BELIEVE, AND JAMES 2:19 SAYS THEY BELIEVE AND HERE IN MATT.8 THE DEMONS CONFESS THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD…….BUT WILL THEY OBEY AND DO WORKS MEET FOR REPENTANCE?

    Mt 8:28 ¶ And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
    29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

  12. On February 16, 2009 at 3:04 pm BCV Said:

    On February 15, 2009 at 4:37 pm walkinginlove Said:

    The Thief on the cross was lied to then!

    WIL,
    WHY DO YOU INSIST ON BEING SAVED LIKE THE THIEF ON THE CROSS? HE IS NOT YOUR EXAMPLE.

    Really? I thought all scripture was for our learning!

    2 Tim 3:16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

    The Book of Acts does not trump any other scripture as they are all equal in weight!

    DID THE THIEF BELIEVE THAT JESUS DIED, WAS BURIED, AND RAISED ON THE THIRD DAY?

    “remember me when you enter into your kingdom is not a plea from a man who expects Jesus to be dead. His faith as a little child and trust washes away the letter of the law you wish to lay on him and others!

    So are you saying that the Thief violates your rules?

    HAD JESUS’ NEW TESTAMENT WENT INTO EFFECT?

    Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

    Haven’t you read that the Veil is torn the moment Jesus is dead? Haven’t you read that this takes place before the Thief Dies and before the Thief’s legs are broken! Haven’t you read, don’t you understand??? You simply are making my defense of the Thief easier by quoting Hebrews 9! Why are you helping me? Could it be that the Holy Spirit still lives in you and you have been brought to this scripture so that you will understand?

    WIL SAID,

    how is your hatred of other believers following the above?

    WIL,

    DO YOU LOVE THE DEVIL? HE’S A BELIEVER…….Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

    He also has no signs of change in him, he could easily fake the religious behavior but inside he would still be the same! He has no good works towards others to help his neighbor. Haven’t you read, don’t you understand that James 2 is dealing with Loving your neighbor that is the second commandment given by Jesus.

    Haven’t you also read in that passage the following:

    13For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.

    Does mercy help those who show no mercy towards others or does the wrath of Judgment fall on them in the same full measure?

    You judge the entire world’s salvation sure that you are correct and they are wrong in that judgment, yet if one, only one either living today, dead already on not yet born is saved contrary to your judgment and stands before God righteous, your judgment will fall upon you like a whirlwind in the same measure!

    How are you so blind that you do not see the risk you are taking sitting on God’s judgment seat and willing to judge at a salvation level.

    In John 7 Jesus spoke of righteous judgment because he was God. And this Judgment was going against what the Legalistic Religious Law Experts of the day saw as a breaking of the Law.

    Jesus said they were wrong because they were Judgment on the appearance of the letter of the law without taking into consideration the Justice towards man that was done that day. Yet thou this Judgment went against the Jewish Law it healed the crippled man, just like a man on his death bed should have the same chance the Thief did by calling on Jesus for his salvation! It violates the letter of the law, but it brings healing and justice to the dieing man! MERCY trumps Judgment!

    John 8 he was not alone he had the father with him at all times. Do you have the father in direct contact with you via the Holy Spirit and what does that Spirit tell you about the Mercy factor in relationship to judgment?

    Ps 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

    And an unbalanced focus only on the letter is a FALSE way! 2 Cor 3:6He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.


    WIL SAID,
    By your standards Cornelius is not saved since he did not follow Acts 2:38 properly!

    WIL, WHY DO YOU NOT THINK THAT CORNELIUS WOULD NOT OBEY PETER’S COMMAND TO BE BAPTIZED FOR THE REMISSION OF SIN?……….Ac 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

    You best read that passage again or should I say backup a verse, Peter very befuddled asks the question can anyone forbid water to them? They have recieved the Holy Spirit as we have. Not the Gifts of the Spirit but THE HOLY SPIRIT. You know that Spirit who is the Seal of our salvation.

    Eph 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

    Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

    WIL SAID,
    WOW WOW WOW you mean the CoC sing in the language if Angles???

    I SUPPOSE YOU MEANT “language of Angels” ANYHOW, WE SING ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT.

    And what language do Angels speak since it is different then a human language? You sing in the language of the Spirit or do you forbid Tongues in your church?

    WIL SAID,
    He didn’t say when but to do it in remembrance of him!

    WIL, HE DID SAY WHEN. HERE HE ISN’T TALKING ABOUT A COMMON MEAL……….
    1Co 11:33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.

    Really, you assume that they met only on the first day, and there is nothing in the above that is part of his admonishment of them using the Lord’s Supper for abusive behavior. Oh and above this section there is the head covering passages for women do you have them do that or is that part of the Bible that isn’t required following? I mean if you guys are going to legalistic route you really should go all the way to prevent the less legalistic from pointing out the inconsistencies.


    BUT HERE HE IS TALKING ABOUT A COMMON MEAL…..
    34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.

    THE DISCIPLES CAME TOGETHER TO BREAK BREAD ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK…….
    Ac 20:7 ¶ And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

    And I have yet to see the command to do this everyday you meet or be damned! Of course your way is much better, I recall hearing Johnny complaining about how he hated the taste of the crackers, surely that is good grounds for remembering!


    WIL SAID,
    It would appear the passage says that if I confess Jesus before men he does the same before the Father.

    MY QUESTION IS, WHY DOESN’T ALL THE SCRIPTURE “APPEAR” TO YOU IN THIS MANNER?

    I’d like to hear you answer your own question since I did not claim to be the judge of the world but your people have taken up that cause, thus should it not be you who give the answer for all that you do not do? Holy Kiss, head covering etc?

    God clearly stated that if you judge hypocritically you will be judged at the same level! You clearly do not hold every command and letter of the New Testament but instead pick and choose what to bind and not bind based on male comfort in the case of the kiss etc. But you cry out against all who fail in other areas, isn’t that exactly what Jesus said not to do???????


    WIL SAID,
    Romans 14 teaches about how real unity that allows differences should occur but it appears that not one is will to submit to that teaching and thus we must force all others to submit to be exactly as we are.

    YOU CANNOT MAKE A BLANKET STATEMENT LIKE THAT, JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO SUBMIT TO GOD’S TEACHING DOESN’T MEAN NO ONE DOES.

    Ah but you don’t and that is the point, you crow and and try and intimidate people and cause them to live in fear and some of the weaker ones join you, but you do not hold all the things the NT has said to do, you clearly do not and anyone even an average Bible person like me can see it clear as day, yet you are blind to the trap that Satan as closed around you and you continue down the path that will lead to the merciless judgment you have made coming home to roost when we stand before the Father. You do not listen but I will continue to call out to you to try and get you to open your eyes to the danger you have placed yourself in by your judgment!

    WIL SAID,
    No you missed the passage completely the “on this” is the truth that Peter spoke “you are the Christ the son of the living God” otherwise Jesus would not have used the others or Paul for that matter to build the church!

    NO I WAS SIMPLY SHOWING HOW THE CATHOLIC CHURCH MISSED THE PASSAGE, WOULD YOU SAY THE CATHOLIC’S WERE RIGHT IN THEIR BELIEF THAT PETER WAS THE FIRST POPE?

    I’d say there is nothing to prove or disprove and I am sure God will clear it up in due time! But I will say that the Catholic’s view of the Pope’s infallibility is certainly something the CoC seems to have taken up when it comes to there scripture interpitation. Meaning that you are infallible in your own thinking, both positions are hardly true.


    WIL SAID,
    the difference is that your master uses fear of hell to make sure you tow the line!

    YOU BETTER BELIEVE HE DOES, AND HE HAD IT WRITTEN OVER 2000 YEARS AGO…….

    Wow Johnny doesn’t look at day over 40! 😉 And we both know that you would not last long in Mr. Robertson’s neighborhood were you to disagree with him and not roll over and play dead.

    2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

    Ah so since we are playing in legalistic land, Satan since he knows God is in the clear right? 😉


    9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
    10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

    THIS IS WHAT JESUS SAID CONCERNING FALSE TEACHERS….
    Mt 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

    LOLOLOLOLOLOL Oh man this is rich, you quote a passage were Jesus is going after the Legalistic Rules Laws of his day called the Pharasees and you apply it to everyone except who it was ment for, ie. you!

    Matthew 23: 27“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

    Lets see, you claim to hold all the commands but even the average Bible student can clearly see things like head coverings and the Holy Kiss greeting but you do not see the hiprocrocy. Your leader uses lies and false statements claiming to use camaras for defense yet gleefully claims I caught you when someone said the A word in discribing him, when I say I use a gun for defense but I go across the street and shoot someone for the heck of it I am lying about why I had a gun! So in context let us look at the part that says “on the outside you appear to people as rightous” clearly you crow about keeping the commands and the pattern yet you use deception to advance your cause that would fall under the wickedness in “are full of hypocrisy and wickedness”

    Also under your “rightous Judgment” or yoke anyone who misses part of the truth is damned, I believe your picture will be there also if we judge by the letter of the law! But then again I believe that mercy is greater then judgment thankfully for us all!

    On February 15, 2009 at 9:10 pm Truth Said:
    Amen, WIL!!!

    WONDER IF AKA “TRUTH” WILL AMEN JESUS?

    It’s like this, you guys have nothing to balance you, you kicked out anyone who disagrees with you or ran them out of the faith completely as in Jason’s case and thus you over focus on part of scripture and leave parts as having less value. You are prone towards judgmentalism because of your head knowledge of the Bible but based on the actions of you followers and leader who can justify hiding your true identity to others and in some cases outright false statements your fruits show that there is something wrong.

    God still hates Gossip, when your TV show is used for making people look as badly as you can no matter what trick you have to use to get it done he still sees it the same way. He hates Gossip but you can ignore that passage because you have full knowledge and are perfect in your understanding of the truth.

    Funny until each of your came to the CoC you were making mistakes and struggling, and now you are perfect in ability to fully understand all. At least in your own minds, I believe the world calls that delusional!

    Just remember when all the passage fights stop and you draw your last breath and step out of this world all it will take is for one person starting from about 200ad till the end of time that is not in the CoC to step into God’s kingdom saved and you are going to reap your judgment of salvation, all it takes is one person, one man dieing on a bed who was not baptized who calls like the thief, that will be all it will take! How can people who appear to know so much be so blind to this fact????????????????????? 😦

  13. On February 17, 2009 at 1:34 pm faithfull Said:

    So if we don’t hear about the baptist church , presbyterian church etc…. how can we have faith in them?

    Really you should get out more! 😉 Of course I realize this is the “your church isn’t in the Bible” gambit, it is a great sales pitch but it is not the truth!

    The passage you use to claim your existence is a greeting, the punctuation is churches of Christ, not Churches of Christ as a proper name would be!

    Also churches is the word ekklhsiai and when you do a search of that word you run into a little passage called Romans 16:4who risked their own necks for my life. Not only I, but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them.

    Now what Church is Paul talking about, what, what why the churches of the Gentiles!!!

    Now will you please put this sales ploy to rest once and for all!

  14. BCV,

    Do you really think the demons believe Jesus as their Savior their Messiah.

    Surely you know better than that.

  15. God knows who belongs to Him.

    None of us can say that.

    And when one of us does claim that right, he has set himself in the place of God.

    This is the essence of a cult: that a very few dare proclaim that they possess the totality of truth. That their “special understanding” is the one and only doctrine that matters.

    They have put their faith in themselves, and not in God at all.

    We who are in Christ have found the Truth that is in Him, indeed that is Him. But our sanctification is ongoing for a lifetime. Not any of us can boast that we are a finished work.

    And those that do boast, play with their peril. Truly, that way lies madness.

  16. Aw, thanks guys-I wasn’t trying to garner applause for what I am doing-God has just opened an incredible door, but thank you so much for the support and prayers! I, too am really pumped to see what God will do!! 🙂

    It just makes me sad to remember how many people do not know Jesus AT ALL, and yet we continue to bicker over stuff like this. Life is short, Jesus has an awesome message and desires all of us to be saved-it isn’t about us, or how right we can be-but what Jesus does as He transforms our lives. That is amazing!!

    Hope you are all doing well! Blessings~

  17. faithfull,
    The “Church of Christ” that we are discussing on this forum, is not in the Bible either.

    Don’t believe me? Ask yourself this…

    Can it be demonstrated that there is an unbroken chain of “Church of Christ” membership, stretching from the present day back to the time of the New Testament churches?

    You know as well as I do that there is not.

    Thus, the claim that the “Church of Christ” is the one true church from the Bible, is false.

  18. On February 18, 2009 at 8:42 pm Chris Knight Said:

    Can it be demonstrated that there is an unbroken chain of “Church of Christ” membership, stretching from the present day back to the time of the New Testament churches?

    C.K.,If you buy some California grapes do you have to have a vine that stretches all the way from California to the store you are at before you will believe that they are California grapes?

  19. Chris are you implying that the church Jesus built died? The gates of hell preavailed against it?

    [the blog admin has deleted faithfull’s second question regarding Chris’s wife. Not going to happen here, faithfull. If you want to discuss Chris’s personal life, do it on his blog. Here, you will keep it above board.]

  20. Chip,
    No, but there should be some kind of documentation or other evidence that the grapes did originate from California.

    That doesn’t exist with the “Church of Christ” that we are discussing. They don’t even turn up until, depending on how you look at it, no earlier than the late 1800s. And most would say that it only goes back to the first half of the 20th century.

    So if the ultra-legalist “Church of Christ” only first turned up in the last century, where was it in the 19 centuries previous?

  21. I’d be concerned about those grapes if they spoke up and told me that if I eat any other kind of grape except them and they came from Israel 2000 years ago originally I would want proof to back up their bogus claim!

  22. On February 20, 2009 at 10:20 am walkinginlove Said:

    I would want proof to back up their bogus claim!

    IS THERE ANY PROOF FOR THE EXISTANCE OF THE BAPTIST, METHODIST, CATHOLIC, PRESBYTERIAN CHURCHES ETC. ETC. ETC? THEIR BOGUS CLAIM DOESN’T SEEM TO BOTHER YOU.

  23. There is no proof for the existence of the “Church of Christ” either.

    The “Church of Christ” that we are discussing on this forum is a group of ecclesiastical bullies who think that just because they have certain words on the sign outside where they meet, that this means they are ordained by God.

    The local hyperlegalist “Church of Christ” is not a real church, neither is it of Christ.

    Real followers of Christ do not chronically lie and harass others as do Johnny Robertson and James Oldfield.

  24. On February 20, 2009 at 1:00 pm BCV Said:

    On February 20, 2009 at 10:20 am walkinginlove Said:

    I would want proof to back up their bogus claim!

    IS THERE ANY PROOF FOR THE EXISTANCE OF THE BAPTIST, METHODIST, CATHOLIC, PRESBYTERIAN CHURCHES ETC. ETC. ETC? THEIR BOGUS CLAIM DOESN’T SEEM TO BOTHER YOU.

    Romans 16:4They risked their lives for me. Not only I but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them.

    Now since you use a greeting to “prove” your name, here is a group of churches called the churches of the Gentiles.

    Now based on the logic used by the CoC here are ALL the churches of the gentiles.

    When we finish playing this semantic game the bottom line is the original church met in homes NOT IN A BUILDING WITH A SIGN OUT FRONT!

    So bogus claims are correct in this matter, your game played with the greeting that Paul gives is only to cause fear and try and recruit from other churches, and it appears you have little ability to convert an actual non-believer!

    Why does it not bother me?? I will tell you because that church in Acts does not exist anymore, it is dead because the church has all died from that time. The Church is the body, not a building, thus nobody can claim to be that church because the parts of that body are all dead now, so unless you are 2000 years old and can prove your birth your church is not that church!

  25. What about the Coptic Church?

    It traces its history back to the Ethiopian eunuch that Philip met in Acts 8.

    The Coptics still thrive today in Egypt and Africa south of the Sahara. They are probably the closest thing to the original New Testament churches.

    And they are not “Church of Christ”.

  26. There are also Christians in Syria and Iraq that trace their spiritual heritage back to the disciples of John the Baptist (the same ones mentioned in Acts).

    And in western Indian, another group of Christians can claim – with substantial evidence to back it up – that their churches are the result of the ministry of Thomas the Apostle.

    None of these churches are “New Testament churches” as rigidly defined by the local hyperlegalist “Church of Christ”.

    And yet, these same churches have more right to boast that they are the original, earliest churches from the time of the New Testament being represented in the present day, if they were given to boasting about such a thing (and they are not).

    So the claim that the “Church of Christ” is the church that we “read about in the Bible”, is absolute hogwash. That’s three “denominational” churches that I have mentioned in one day, that are vastly more legitimate than the “Church of Christ” which has only been around for a few short decades. In fact, the “Church of Christ” has no scriptural or scholarly legitimacy at all.

    Now, if he is a man of his word, Johnny Robertson owes a lot of people $1000.

  27. On February 22, 2009 at 9:36 am walkinginlove Said:

    Why does it not bother me?? I will tell you because that church in Acts does not exist anymore, it is dead because the church has all died from that time.

    WIL,
    ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE WORD OF GOD IS DEAD? THAT IT CAN NO LONGER PRODUCE CHRISTIANS?

    Mt 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

  28. From the sites I see they look like catholics. You believe catholics were the first church? LOL , that’s rich

  29. Well, I do know this, “faithfull”…

    Johnny Robertson boasts that his is the only real church, and backs it up with hidden cameras, confrontational tactics, perverted lies, and very shoddy PowerPoint presentations.

    The Coptic Church has never boasted that it is the only church that has a right to exist… even though it has custody of the actual Ark of the Covenant inside a chapel in Ethiopia.

    Now, which one of those two do you think has the more street cred?

  30. And if anyone speaks aloud that the Coptics, and the churches of India and Syria are “Catholic”, then all that person is doing is demonstrating extreme ignorance. Indeed, it would have been better if that person remained silent.

  31. BCV said:
    WIL,
    ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE WORD OF GOD IS DEAD? THAT IT CAN NO LONGER PRODUCE CHRISTIANS?

    Reply:

    BCV,
    If that is what you get from WIL’s statement it shows you don’t understand what you are reading. So how is it you understand what the Bible says. According to you the Holy Spirit is dead thus you don’t depend on Him to guide you.

  32. “Johnny Robertson boasts that his is the only real church, and backs it up with hidden cameras, confrontational tactics, perverted lies, and very shoddy PowerPoint presentations.”

    Johnny does have a church

  33. “Johnny Robertson boasts that his is the only real church, and backs it up with hidden cameras, confrontational tactics, perverted lies, and very shoddy PowerPoint presentations.”

    Johnny does have a church?

    I’ve heard him say repeatedly he doesn’t have a church

  34. Well, here’s how he describes himself on his new YouTube channel…

    “Johnny Robertson is an evangelist for the church of Christ that you read about in the Bible.”

    Guess what “faithfull”? This is going to blow your mind bigtime…

    I, Chris Knight, am an evangelist for the church of Christ that you read about in the Bible, too!

    And Billy Graham is an evangelist for the church of Christ that you read about in the Bible!

    And Max Lucado is an evangelist for the church of Christ that you read about in the Bible!

    And Charles Stanley is an evangelist for the church of Christ that you read about in the Bible!

    And Mother Teresa was an evangelist for the church of Christ that you read about in the Bible!

    And Nathan, the guy running this blog, is an evangelist for the church of Christ that you read about in the Bible!

    And Katherine who posts here is an evangelist for the church of Christ that you read about in the Bible!

    And Sophie Scholl was an evangelist for the church of Christ that you read about in the Bible (and that girl showed more courage than Johnny Robertson will ever have, if you ask me)!

    And the Methodist minister who lives down the road from me is an evangelist for the church of Christ that you read about in the Bible!

    And my friend the Baptist youth minister is an evangelist for the church of Christ that you read about in the Bible!

    And my former co-worker who is now one of the most listened-to Catholic priests in the world is an evangelist for the church of Christ that you read about in the Bible!

    And my cousin the Presbyterian lay minister is an evangelist for the church of Christ that you read about in the Bible!

    And the friends from college who most helped me find God again are evangelists for the church of Christ that you read about in the Bible!

    And another friend who baptised me ten years ago this week is an evangelist for the church of Christ that you read about in the Bible!

    All of these people, and many, MANY more, are the real evangelists of the body of Christ.

    Do you know what separates them from Johnny Robertson, James Oldfield and the others in their so-called “Church of “Christ”, “faithfull”?

    It’s that the world does recognize all those other people as belonging to Christ… because they dare demonstrate the love and grace that only comes from Christ wherever it is that God has put them.

    I know what the real church of Christ is. And what you are representing “faithfull”, is not it.

  35. On February 24, 2009 at 7:25 pm faithfull Said:

    I’ve heard him say repeatedly he doesn’t have a church

    I believe that falls under the category of lies! He does have a Church and he controls that Church. He hides behind his version of scripture to do so.

  36. On February 23, 2009 at 2:49 pm BCV Said:

    On February 22, 2009 at 9:36 am walkinginlove Said:

    Why does it not bother me?? I will tell you because that church in Acts does not exist anymore, it is dead because the church has all died from that time.

    WIL,
    ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE WORD OF GOD IS DEAD? THAT IT CAN NO LONGER PRODUCE CHRISTIANS?

    Based on what I watch on the local TV I would say, based only on that evidence yes!

    Mt 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

    Interesting passage, I wonder since Johnny gave a talk on how everyone should meet at his show to talk about differences using Paul and Barnabas as an example, should we listen to that teaching or should we realize that Paul and Barnabas were going to see brothers in the faith to talk about the issue of circumcision that they honored each other as brother’s yet you claim that we are not brothers and not in the faith. How can that be anything except false teaching using passages that are meant for brotherly relationships while at the same time treating those brothers as false teachers and the enemy???

    How is it that he can teach such a false message to the public and you are blinded to that message as being truth, clearly James Oldfield has said do not call him brother….

    1 John 4:20If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

    What more hatred can I show my brother then to deny our relationship?

    So this past week your leader Johnny Robertson, perverted scripture in the hopes of growing his shows audience by using passages about brothers in disagreement meeting to resolve their differences yet he denies them as being his brother.

    That is 100% perversion of the scripture! Yet I am the blind one and can not see?!?!?!? As truth said you could not even read what I wrote about the Church of Acts and realize I was talking about the Church being the members of the body and that since those members shown in Acts are all dead now, that the Church in Acts is not in existence.

    It I take the original Constitution of the United States and xerox it and then throw the original out. Even if I continue to copy that copy it will slowly start to show defects in it. And the original is gone, no matter how many times I copy or how many ways I try to recreate it, that Church is gone.

    Those if you were honest you would see that you are not that Church, because they are dead, because they operated in the power of the Holy Spirit with signs and wonders, that is something you do not have nor do you even admit they might still exist.

    So you may be trying to xerox that Church, you are not that church! But I know you have been taught that you are that church because you replicate part of that church. It is like me walking in with a copy of one page of the constitution and claiming to have the original constitution in my hands. It is in fact a lie!

  37. So did Jesus lie?

    Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
    (KJV)

  38. Again faithful you show you blindness to my point. And you again place the propaganda speak that somehow you are directly tied to that church body.

    You do not do many of the things they did thus you are not that church, you are still part of the body of Christ, but you are not that body or the church you read about in that time.

    If you were you would be able to do the things they did, instead you have taken away the Holy Spirit as a non-event in the life of your church.

    God said the Holy Spirit was his seal, you do not say that now, thus you are not that church!

  39. Faithful, which of the conservative churches of Christ are the “true church.” I found out about a year ago how inconsistent the teachings, patterns and practices are within conservative groups. Todd Deaver exposes many of this in his book. Why is this stuff swept under the rug? At least come forward as Todd and others and address the many areas you “agree to disagree.” So sad you can have that rule on so many issues while condemning others who hold the same rule. Talk about double standards…wow !

  40. Faithful,

    Just so you’d know the Bible tells us Jesus did die but He rose from the dead, so He is alive. You guys don’t understand what the body of Christ is. You think Jesus is a building you go in with a sign on the wall saying “Church of Christ” if that is what the body of Christ is then the Christians you read about in the Bible who met and worshiped Christ in their homes with no mention of a sign on the wall saying “Church of Christ” were not Christians, in which that is not true and in which your interpretation of the Church of Christ is wrong. Jesus is more than someone who lives in a building. Jesus doesn’t live in a building He lives in people. Christians are the body of Christ, people are the Church of Christ not a building.

    Your comments show your ignorance of who Jesus is.

  41. Truth,
    People like “faithfull” are so obsessed with condemning the denominations, that they fail to see that they themselves are MORE “denomination” than any other denomination out there.

    Think about it: Johnny Robertson and James Oldfield spend all of their broadcast time trying to boast about what their “Church of Christ” is not. But how much time do they ever devote to what their “Church of Christ” is?

    I see this kind of behavior in quite a few denominations, truth be known. But I have never seen it taken to such the wild extreme as the hyperlegalist “Church of Christ” does.

  42. here is THE church of christ in the new testament and behold a sect, division, a part.

    Act 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
    Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
    Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

    now dont tell me about the fact that the burden they wanted to impose was rejected.
    not the point. they were members and their doctrine was being considered by the apostles.
    sects from the beginning huh?
    lee

  43. Chris , James taught on the church at the Thursday night meeting. Just because you won’t attend and learn doesn’t mean the lessons are not being given

  44. “which of the conservative churches of Christ are the “true church.” ”

    The ones that follow the book

  45. faithfull wrote: “The ones that follow the book”

    I think you meant to say, “the ones that follow the same limited interpretation of the book that our little group follows.”

    Just think it through, faithfull, and you’ll have to admit that that is what you believe. Warning: it’s a belief like a house built of cards.

  46. On February 27, 2009 at 1:11 pm faithfull Said:

    Lee what did they do ? They came together and had dialog about it.

    They also considered each other brothers despite the differences in what they believed, or did I miss the passages were Paul was on ROCK TV showing how the rest were false teachers???

  47. On February 19, 2009 at 4:23 pm faithfull Said:

    So you all would say the churches of men salute you?

    Matthew 23:25 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.

    Or should this say Woe to you teachers of the new law, you put up signs claiming to be mine while hating your brother, changing a simple greeting from all the churches into an authorizations for sign using that greeting as grounds to deny your brothers?

    I missed this one, I’ll keep reading faithful, oh I expect you to answer every question I asked in this thread also!

  48. On February 23, 2009 at 8:25 pm faithfull Said:

    From the sites I see they look like catholics. You believe catholics were the first church? LOL , that’s rich

    Do you mean the people who placed the scriptures in order of reading in our current Bible were not of God that we are reading a Bible built by false teachers?

    Now that is rich!

  49. On February 26, 2009 at 11:24 am faithfull Said:

    So did Jesus lie?

    Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
    (KJV)

    There is no one here who does not believe that Jesus is the son of God, funny you would pull a passage that we agree is correct that the truth Peter spoke was the truth about Christ and that was the rock because Jesus is the rock!

    Although it is easy to misread this because Jesus was being subtle about it, just like in John 3!

  50. So faithful I think I covered all your questions, now it is your turn I will place this list of questions for you to answer.

    Johnny Robertson taught that since Paul and Barnabas met with the Council that we also should meet to talk over our differences.

    Is quoting scripture that was an example between brothers correct teaching when the CoC clearly have stated that all others are false teachers and not their brother?

    So are the churches you have issues with your brothers in the faith or are they false teachers?

    If they are false then how can you quote scripture ment as an example for brothers to follow when you do not consider them your brothers?

    Have you twisted scripture for your own purposes?

    Also since there is no record of the details of the complete argument even that believers have should brothers air their differences in public like on TV where nonbelievers can see them?

    If so does this violate the principle Paul taught about giving up his rights for his weaker brother to show unity in front of a nonbeliever over the issue of food served to idols?

    And a simple question for you or JR, were the children who were dancing showing off their underwear as the spot in front of them made it look. Could you actually see the undergarments?

    If so will you place the unedited version on study jesus on youtube for us all to see?

    Does showing TV overlays saying Dan Parker vs the Truth constitute a cordial unbiased playing field for viewers to decide on the truth? Or was it an attempt to discredit and unbalance the playing field?

    Now please take them one by one and answer them.

  51. The first Christians disagreed much on what it means to “follow the book”.

    Two thousand years later and we are no closer to understanding that, than they were.

    And it is the acme of arrogance and pride to assume that we possibly do fully understand.

    That is actually the beautiful thing about what it means to follow Christ. It means being able to acknowledge that we don’t have all the answers per our own understanding… but that we are free to come to Him, admitting our frailties and foibles and faults, and trust in Him to not only guide us, but lead us in growth.

    That is what I find most reprehensible about the so-called “Church of Christ” that we are discussing here. There is no spiritual growth possible per its non-biblical doctrines and teachings. Men like Johnny Robertson and James Oldfield would crush the vigor out of their fellow believers, just for sake of feeling superior to others.

    I have seen enough over the years as a follower of Christ, to know that the hyper-legalist “Church of Christ” is not of Christ at all. It has never been able to do the things that I have seen sincere followers of Christ do.

    Parse that as you will.

  52. On February 27, 2009 at 11:04 pm walkinginlove Said:

    So faithful I think I covered all your questions, now it is your turn I will place this list of questions for you to answer.

    Johnny Robertson taught that since Paul and Barnabas met with the Council that we also should meet to talk over our differences.

    Is quoting scripture that was an example between brothers correct teaching when the CoC clearly have stated that all others are false teachers and not their brother?

    So are the churches you have issues with your brothers in the faith or are they false teachers?

    If they are false then how can you quote scripture ment as an example for brothers to follow when you do not consider them your brothers?

    Have you twisted scripture for your own purposes?

    Also since there is no record of the details of the complete argument even that believers have should brothers air their differences in public like on TV where nonbelievers can see them?

    If so does this violate the principle Paul taught about giving up his rights for his weaker brother to show unity in front of a nonbeliever over the issue of food served to idols?

    And a simple question for you or JR, were the children who were dancing showing off their underwear as the spot in front of them made it look. Could you actually see the undergarments?

    If so will you place the unedited version on study jesus on youtube for us all to see?

    Does showing TV overlays saying Dan Parker vs the Truth constitute a cordial unbiased playing field for viewers to decide on the truth? Or was it an attempt to discredit and unbalance the playing field?

    Now please take them one by one and answer them.

    On February 27, 2009 at 11:06 pm walkinginlove Said:

    Oh I left out one item, do liars go to heaven according to scripture?

    ————————-

    Still waiting on those answers faithful!!!!!!!

  53. “On February 27, 2009 at 10:48 pm walkinginlove Said:
    On February 23, 2009 at 8:25 pm faithfull Said:

    From the sites I see they look like catholics. You believe catholics were the first church? LOL , that’s rich

    Do you mean the people who placed the scriptures in order of reading in our current Bible were not of God that we are reading a Bible built by false teachers?

    Now that is rich!”

    SO YOU DON’T KNOW THE CATHOLIC BIBLE IS DIFFERENT ?

  54. The current one is but the original one that they put together in order is the same as you use, thus Catholics put together your Bible, or did you not know that?

    Still waiting for those answers to the questions I listed above faithful? Or are you going to avoid them per the standard CoC doctrine to ignore or change subjects when you are backed into a corner with no good answer?

  55. The current one is but the original one that they put together in order is the same as you use, thus Catholics put together your Bible

    It’s true.

  56. “The current one is but the original one that they put together in order is the same as you use, thus Catholics put together your Bible.”

    Its very true indeed. Perhaps faithfull would like to elaborate on his differing historical prospective…..

  57. I spent the past few days searching the Bible for the “Church of Christ” that we are discussing on this forum.

    In the process, I evaluated everything that we know of what Robertson, Oldfield, “faithfull” and others have demonstrated and claim to represent.

    And do you know what?

    I could not find any evidence at all that the “Church of Christ” is an institution of the New Testament at all.

    I did find the “Church of Christ” in the Old Testament, however.

    The “Church of Christ” of Johnny Robertson and James Oldfield is in Genesis, chapter 11.

    Robertson and Oldfield are obsessed with “unity”. With bringing all Christians “together”, without “division”. They seriously believe that they have a mandate to compel followers of Christ to rally to their OWN banner: that of the self-proclaimed “Church of Christ”.

    In short: Robertson and Oldfield are out to make a name for themselves, however they try to spin it otherwise.

    But they are not the first to attempt such a thing.

    The people of Babel sought to unify themselves to, in a show of force, to make a name for their own selves.

    Did God bless their efforts to achieve “unity”? Did He allow it to proceed unhindered? Certainly not! We are told that God sent division to the people of Babel, and spread them across the width and breadth of the Earth.

    So too will God confound the efforts of Johnny Robertson and James Oldfield, and every other person like them who has sought to impose “unity”.

    Robertson and Oldfield are not much different from the Taliban in their lust to achieve “unity”. Neither are they that far removed from the mentality of Stalin, Pol Pot, and every other individual across history who sought to “unite”.

    Robertson and Oldfield’s demand for “unity” has nothing to do with Christ.

    But it has everything to do with the fallen nature of man.

    And that is why they will fail.

  58. Faithful I thought you could give me an answer to any biblical question I asked you still have not answered my questions that concern using the Bible, I will for the third time list them again:

    Johnny Robertson taught that since Paul and Barnabas met with the Council that we also should meet to talk over our differences.

    Is quoting scripture that was an example between brothers correct teaching when the CoC clearly have stated that all others are false teachers and not their brother?

    So are the churches you have issues with your brothers in the faith or are they false teachers?

    If they are false then how can you quote scripture meant as an example for brothers to follow when you do not consider them your brothers?

    Have you twisted scripture for your own purposes?

    Also since there is no record of the details of the complete argument even that believers have should brothers air their differences in public like on TV where nonbelievers can see them?

    If so does this violate the principle Paul taught about giving up his rights for his weaker brother to show unity in front of a nonbeliever over the issue of food served to idols?

    And a simple question for you or JR, were the children who were dancing showing off their underwear as the spot in front of them made it look. Could you actually see the undergarments?

    If so will you place the unedited version on study jesus on youtube for us all to see?

    Does showing TV overlays saying Dan Parker vs the Truth constitute a cordial unbiased playing field for viewers to decide on the truth? Or was it an attempt to discredit and unbalance the playing field?

    Now please take them one by one and answer them.

    On February 27, 2009 at 11:06 pm walkinginlove Said:

    Oh I left out one item, do liars go to heaven according to scripture?

    I think the questions are pretty plain and simple, but I will add another, why won’t you give an answer?

    If you won’t answer the question what does that say about your theology?

  59. My bible? Johnny was just on star 39 saying he was going to bring up Chris Knight again on the show Thuesday night . My dvd recorder is READY!!!!

  60. When, pray tell, is “Thuesday” night?

    Strange, how I have not really delved into the “Church of Christ” cult on my own blog in, oh, I don’t know, over a month now? But lately Robertson seems… dare we say it… “obsessed” with me? Curious, that.

    A good friend made note of something earlier this evening…

    So if Robertson is spending gobs of money to discuss me on his show, how exactly is this preaching Christ, and demonstrating Christ-like love and humbleness to the world?

    That’s how all of my involvement with this started. When I asked Robertson on his show “How are you showing the love of Christ?”

    Nearly a year later, he still hasn’t answered that question.

    Maybe it’s simply because he can’t answer it. That it’s impossible for him to answer it.

    So no matter what Johnny Robertson does to me, he is still choosing to prove my point for me. I have to do nothing.

    He is proving to the world that he has not the least iota of understanding about Jesus Christ, why He came to this earth, and what He can still do for those who love Him.

    By the way, Thursday night I will be enjoying myself along with several friends. We’ve planned this little party for about twenty years now so I’m afraid that whatever shenanigans Robertson has up his sleeve, I won’t be able to see any of it 😉

  61. LOL. I liked that, too. Wouldn’t “Thuesday” be Wednesday? It’s the day between Tuesday and Thursday…

  62. So if Robertson is spending gobs of money to discuss me on his show, how exactly is this preaching Christ, and demonstrating Christ-like love and humbleness to the world?

    Sorry the humor monster has to say “He is preaching Chris(t)! 😉

    Perhaps since Faithful can answer my questions above that perhaps Mr. Roberton would dare to answer them.

    Or has everyone left the CoC? 😉

  63. BTW faithful anytime I see you posting a complaint about non-answers to your questions I will re post my list that you have avoided like the plague! 😉

    BTW Micah said on his broadcast that the CoC would always give an answer to a question……..

    Seems that only applies to verbal questions, perhaps someone could read it and another answer while a third typed in the words! 😉

    And yes you avoiding my questions proves something to me and I am grinning from ear to ear! 😉

  64. “So if Robertson is spending gobs of money to discuss me on his show, how exactly is this preaching Christ, and demonstrating Christ-like love and humbleness to the world?”

    Maybe same way you were preaching Christ when you went on air for a few minutes to talk about Johnny and then used the rest of the time to promote your film?

  65. “Seems that only applies to verbal questions, perhaps someone could read it and another answer while a third typed in the words! ”

    Maybe it means only to honest people?

  66. “By the way, Thursday night I will be enjoying myself along with several friends. We’ve planned this little party for about twenty years now so I’m afraid that whatever shenanigans Robertson has up his sleeve, I won’t be able to see any of it ”

    We will have plenty of copies and probably post on internet. Don’t worry , you’ll have every chance to see it and so will the four county area

  67. I can’t wait until “Thuesday”!

    Anyway, maybe Faithful could elaborate on his view of where the Bible came from. Just calmly and rationally, explain how it was formed and what the Church of Christ’s role in this was. Also, I would be interested to know why there is no evidence of Cocs existing before the American Restoration Movement anywhere in the world. If he is feeling really up for the challenge, I would like him to explain why Orthodox Churches, that actually speak and understand the Greek that the New Testament Scriptures where written in, take an entirely different view on certain matters than that of the COC. Are they mislead? Misinformed of their own language and culture? Or just being dishonest?

    – I must have asked this same series of questions, or a similar form thereof, dozens of times before. The majority of time it is flat out ignored. (This doesn’t apply to the COC alone, but to many other groups that claim to be the “One True” Church)

    Faithful, How about it?

  68. Anybody care to comment about the Chris Knight episode of “What Does the Bible Say?” I had other things going on – didn’t watch it.

  69. On March 5, 2009 at 3:49 pm faithfull Said:

    “Seems that only applies to verbal questions, perhaps someone could read it and another answer while a third typed in the words! ”

    Maybe it means only to honest people?

    Ah so you are admitting to being a dishonest person, GOOD, exposing sin is the first step to removing it!

    So lets get honest and you tell everyone who reads this thread why you won’t answer my question!

    Or would you rather avoid and sidetrack to avoid answering? Honestly that is?

  70. JR;s only point was that Chris said there was no real rules so that anyone could make up rules then! It was in reference to only preachers being able to baptize if memory serves.

    Wasn’t worth the wasted recording space really. One sad thing was a woman called at the end who seems to really be struggling with life, she was supposed to call JR after the show and I hope he is able to help her!

  71. What, so he was in a tiff over my baptism essay last week?

    Funny that Robertson says I don’t have “enough Bible knowledge” to debate him, but he considers my blog theologically dangerous enough to counter and obsess over.

    Robertson is not a very good writer. Just as he is also not a very good thinker. I have discerned that Robertson and Oldfield can not appeal to intellect. That they instead have to feed of raw emotion.

    In the arena of ideas however, well… as one friend put it a few days ago, I “fly circles around them” 🙂

  72. Got to see the “expose'”, courtesy of a friend who recorded it.

    That was it? THIS is what Robertson thought would be something that would hurt me?!?

    PPPPHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…

    Robertson can only wish he could be as articulate and eloquent as I. Hey, it’s not my fault that I was reading widely and blessed with excellent teachers that I was thankful for, at the same age when Robertson was running wild and holding up stores at gunpoint. What’s that verse say? “As ye sow, so shall ye reap…”

    A personal observation: Robertson came across as direly desperate, and even incapable of grasping what to most people would really be very simple concepts. He is again trying to push people’s emotional levers and in this case, he failed miserably.

    Just as on a level playing field, he fails at serious intellectual discussion every time.

  73. “Also, I would be interested to know why there is no evidence of Cocs existing before the American Restoration Movement anywhere in the world.”

    So Jesus lied? HE din’t build his church? Acts 20:28 and rom 16″16 is evidence ? wow

  74. Of course Jesus didn’t lie. He “din’t” not build his church. You, and your mates, however, cannot prove that Jesus’ church bore the name “church of Christ” prior to the American Restoration movement. Yes, Christ’s bride was and is “the churches of Christ”, but was found by different names at different times, and often more names than one.

    For example, in the NT, Christ’s church was called things other than “church of Christ” – church of God, “the way”, disciples of Christ, etc.

    By the way, you guys really need to either stop using Romans 16:16 as your prooftext verse or start greeting one another with holy kisses. Until you do, you’re just proving that you are not the one true church because of your faithfulness to Scripture.

  75. A friend suggested the other day that someone needs to go out with a can of spray paint and vandalize every church sign in the area so that they all say “Church of Christ” on them, thus making them “Church of Christ”-y enough that Robertson and Oldfield won’t harass them any more. Sorta like putting the lambs’ blood on the lintel of Hebrew houses so that the Angel of Death would pass over in Exodus.

    Seriously, that is what this all boils down to, isn’t it? What it says on a sign outside, rather than what goes on not just inside the buildings but inside the hearts.

    Well, the real church that Christ has established is not in the hearts of those like Johnny Robertson, James Oldfield and their followers.

    The “Church of Christ” that we discuss here is not scriptural in any way, shape or form. It cannot demonstrate an unbroken lineage going back to Palestine of the First Century A.D. And neither has it ever demonstrated that it is bearing the fruits of the spirit that we are told in scripture will always be borne of those who are sincerely seeking after Christ.

    But if Robertson and Oldfield will remain faithful to scripture by kissing each other on live television, then I might be inclined to seriously consider what they’re selling.

  76. “So Jesus lied? HE din’t build his church? Acts 20:28 and rom 16″16 is evidence ? wow”

    – The funny thing about this is that the Churches of Christ saluting the Roman audience would likely be condemned by faithful as “unsound”

    Faithful,

    Would you like to make any serious attempt at addressing the issues? Maybe you could shed some light on the Coc’s role in creating the Bible or produce a Bible verse that teaches that we should use 1st cen. churches as a pattern for our worship?

  77. On March 9, 2009 at 7:04 pm faithfull Said:

    “Also, I would be interested to know why there is no evidence of Cocs existing before the American Restoration Movement anywhere in the world.”

    So Jesus lied? HE din’t build his church? Acts 20:28 and rom 16″16 is evidence ? wow

    No your denomination did not exist until the restoration movement, or would you like to give us a run down of your church in history?

    Perhaps say when you split from the Catholic church for starters while of course using their Bible that is!

  78. Speaking of what came out of the Restoration movement…

    Robertson and Oldfield’s “Church of Christ” is much more closely related to the Mormon Church than it is to anything else.

  79. So now Chris knight is asking to see men kissing on tv? LOL wow chris that closet is really getting small isn’t ?

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