I came across a good article dealing with the issue of the “age of accountability”, a subject that was recently discussed on a “What Does the Bible Say” clip over on youtube.
The ever-elusive “age of accountability” that continues to plague some churches; mostly the “Church of Christ” and some other “non-denominational” brands, is the result of a marketing agenda. Let me explain.
For those who have not heard the term “age of accountability,” it is the age when some Protestants believe one is culpable for his sins, is sorry for his sins, and wishes to be baptized for the remission of his sins. It is akin to the moment prior to when a “faith only” Christian words the prayer, “Jesus, come into my heart.”
The irony is that it is those who usually claim to be “real Christians” or “Bible Christians” are who have accepted the doctrine of “age of accountability,” yet have no location in scripture to point for its development. In fairness, I don’t expect “book, chapter, and verse” proofs, but I do expect the admittance that the doctrine was a theological conclusion–an answer to a theological problem; a result of an agenda.
To read the entire article, go here.
Answering the Church of Christ 
lets talk about this for a while if we can.
the age of accountability, i would like to state
my belief on this subject.
i think there is some wrong thinking in this premise.
the coc says that all are born sinless and i believe just the opposite.
lets imagine a line representing the life of a man.
at some point according to the coc the man-child reaches a defined point at which he is fully aware of
the difference of right and wrong. since he cannot sin until this event there is a time period between then and his first sin that he is self aware yet without sin.
according to the coc the first sin is what makes him a sinner.
here is where the wrong thinking comes in. sin is a symptom of the disease and not the disease itself.
when we use the term AOA we use it mostly with the wrong premise. it is not when we become aware of the difference between right and wrong that we are responsible for our place in eternity. it is when we fully understand that god is reaching out to save and to redeem us and what we do with his offer.
we have all been separated from god at birth thanks to adam. we are all born in sin, that is not what god will hold you guilty of…….the only question we must answer is what we did with his offer of redemption.
lee
i left out one thing….
if the coc is right then there is a time however brief,
that the man-child is fully aware yet sinless.
sounds like man reaches god status to me.
lee
On February 1, 2009 at 2:11 pm lee Said:
we have all been separated from god at birth thanks to adam. we are all born in sin, that is not what god will hold you guilty of…….the only question we must answer is what we did with his offer of redemption.
LEE,
IF AS YOU SAY WE ALL WERE SEPARATED FROM GOD AT BIRTH HAVING DONE NO SIN, WHY WOULD YOU THINK ONE WOULD HAVE TO DO SOMETHING “WITH HIS OFFER”? IF ONE MANS SIN CONDEMNED US ALL WOULD IT NOT MAKE SENSE THAT ONE MAN’S SACRIFICE (ESPECIALLY THE SON OF GOD) WOULD SAVE ALL?
IF NOT, THE WAY YOU SEE IT IS SATANS CURSE IS STRONGER THAN GODS CURE. AND JUST AS NO ONE HAD A CHOICE TO BE LOST, NO ONE HAS A CHOICE TO BE SAVED…. YOU SOUND LIKE A UNIVERSALIST AND WE KNOW THATS NOT THE CASE…….
Mt 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
insert cricket sounds……….
i cant spell the sound Scooby Doo makes when he’s asked a question.
lee
IF NOT, THE WAY YOU SEE IT IS SATANS CURSE IS STRONGER THAN GODS CURE.
1 John 2:8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
Apparently according to the Bible there are times when the sickness is stronger then the cure, based on your leaders teaching 1 John 2:9 is for people who have been saved only thus, sometimes those who have been cured get sick again.
Or is the passage mistaken, or your teacher mistaken?
On February 9, 2009 at 3:09 pm walkinginlove Said:
Or is the passage mistaken, or your teacher mistaken?
wil,
We are taught by the word, therefore neither of your assumptions are true. The scripture cannot be broken.
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Also, the scripture you refer to (1Jn.2:8-10) is speaking of Christians and yes one can fall from grace(Gal.5:4) but how can a Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, Presbyterian, etc.etc.etc. get sick “AGAIN” when they haven’t been cured in the first place? If you’re not on the table, can you fall off the table?
“Ps 106:37 Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,
38 And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.” Here the scripture says that the blood was “innocent”. One thing I know is that I got my soul from God not Adam. “Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.” God does not create anything that is evil Gen 1 everything was “good” after He saw it. In the OT the age of innocence was up to the age of 20 “Nu 14:29 Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me,” In the NT when Saul was persecuting the church he was only putting “men and women” not children in prison Acts 8:3. And Jesus was called a child at twelve years old Lk 2:42-43. So as we have already seen children’s blood is innocent because our spirit comes from God and the mistakes of our fathers do not affect us. So we in the Lord’s church do not baptise 12 year olds. Because they are not men or women they cannot carry out the usual responsibilities of men and women. So why would you say that someone who cannot even drive a car or sign their own report card is accountable to sin when they are not accountable for anything else? When they still have to rely on their parents for guidance? When they are still being disciplined by their parents?
The Calendar we use today is not the same Calendar used in the Old Testament.
Genesis 5:27
“So all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred and sixty-nine years; and he died.”
We are not responsible for Adam’s sin, but because of Adam’s sin, sin was brought on all of mankind on all flesh. We all inherited sin from Adam.
Romans 5:12
“Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned”
The Bible says children’s blood is innocent, it doesn’t say their blood is undefiled.
I believe Jesus was born different from any other person in that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, He was born of pure undefiled blood. He was also born of the flesh in which He was able to sin.
When a person sins is it because they are so good, no, they sin because they are a sinner. If we were so good we would never sin. Someone who is good does not and would not sin. If we were born without sin, then we would never sin, but that’s not the case is it, we all do sin.
I believe we are born in sin, though I believe a child is innocent even though they can do things that are sinful because they don’t understand exactly what sin is until they reach whatever age they come to, to understand. And God who knows all, He knows when one understands right from wrong.
For someone to say that we are not born in sin would mean that Jesus is not the only man who lived on earth that was perfect and to say that is a lie.
1 John 1:8-10
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.”
So, Micah-I have to ask-with this viewpoint, when would you say the “age of accountability” is?
I also need to point out that I, who has been born and raised in churches of Christ, along with many of my friends, kids in my youth group, etc were baptized at the age of 12, 13, and even younger. Do you not think it counted? Who and how are we to even decide that? I think that should be left up to God, as we continue to teach and model Jesus for the young, while studying with them to help bring them to a better understanding of who Jesus is and what they have in Him.
I think we all need to learn more how to let God be God, and remember what “Truth” said-that God knows all, especially our hearts, and knows when we understand or don’t understand.
To make clear cut lines across the board about age of accountability not only limits God, but limits when and why we are making the decision-and God cannot be limited. Each person comes to their decision on their own, it neither needs to be rushed nor pushed-because it is God who is changing our hearts and spirits. Of course no one completely knows everything at the age of 12, or even 21…it is a constant journey of seeking and growing more into the image of God, learning who He is, and who we are in Him as we walk with Him and in Him.
Anyway, just my 2 cents 🙂
Replying to Truth: The definition for sin is found in 1Jo 3:4 ¶ “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.” Now for you to say that when a child disobeys is sin is not scriptural because they do not know the law yet. Are they disobeying are they doing something wrong? Yes, but is it sin? NO!!! Where there is no law there is no sin Ro 5:13 “(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.” Sin is not imputed upon a child. They do not understand!!! Truth said “For someone to say that we are not born in sin would mean that Jesus is not the only man who lived on earth that was perfect and to say that is a lie.” That is not what I am saying. We are all made in God’s image. Not what he looks like but in His nature so does God have a sin nature since He made us in His image. Adam was created perfect he had not sinned until he let Eve defile him. If Adam had not of eaten of the fruit and his “eyes been open” he would have remaind perfect. But he did it eat so through him we all sin. That does not mean that we come into this world that way. Eze 18:20 “The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.” Yes because of Adam we have sin but I do not get my sin until I can understand the LAW. Jesus is the only one to remain sinless till death everyone is born perfect “Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.” God does not created sinners we become them when we undertsand the law.
(KJV)
Ro 5:13 “(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.”
I will say again, I believe a child is innocent even though they can do things that are sinful because they don’t understand exactly what sin is, children are not guilty of sin even though they do sinful things.
When a child tells their first lie it is ususally to their parents. Most good parents do not teach their child to lie. Yet a child tells their first lie to their parents. Most people who know children well know they do a lot of wrong things before they are taught, that is why we have to teach them right from wrong. It’s obviously not something that is always learned, but is something that is in all of us.
So Truth with what you replied are still willing to say that we are born sinners and if a child dies it will go to Hell? Because that is where all sinners are going. Or will you stick with what you replied that they are doing wrong but not sinning?
The Age of Accountability is somewhat vaguely seen in Isaiah 7:15-16 “He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. For before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land whose two kings you dread will be deserted.”
Before the boy KNOWS how to refuse the evil and choose the good – but again, I said vaguely.
Micah,
You obviously cannot understand what you read. I said I believe a child is innocent not guilty of sin even though they do sinful things.
Oh, and by the way the Bible says if you say you are not a sinner then the truth is not in you and you are calling God a liar.
1 John 1:8-10
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.”
Micah, would you please address my post and questions?
Thank you.
Gen 8:21 The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: “Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.
According to God, our inclination is towards evil even as a child. Not saying they are accountable just saying where our leanings are as a child according to God.
The reason I am confused is because you do not make any sense. You are not using your terms correctly. Children cannot do sinful things if they are not sinners. You say they are innocent but born sinners that is a contridiction. That is where I am confused you were first wanting to say we are born in sin, then you want to say they are innocent but still born in sin. 1 John 1:8-10 “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.” I say again where there is no law there is no sin Ro 5:13 Everybody sins when they understand the law. You have to put them together if you don’t then it contradicts itself.
Ok Katherine I am sorry for putting you on the back burner. “kids in my youth group, etc were baptized at the age of 12, 13, and even younger. Do you not think it counted?” No it does not. Paul persecuted men and women and in Luke 2:42 Jesus was 12 and was still considered a child. Now are kids able to teach? Well with Christ’s example yes. We encourage our young people to talk to their friends as much as they can. But that age is not able to handle the responsibilites of grown ups. Are you going to let a 12 year old boy tell you how the church ought to spend its money or let him get up on Sunday morning and preach. Men are supposed to look over the church not boys. They are not able to take care of themselves physically let alone spiritually. They are still dependent on their parents. Now I do not know when that age is I was baptized @ seventeen only because I felt like at that time I was starting to come out on my own. I felt more that I was to be responsible for my actions and not my parents. And we should not push that responibility on kids so fast. Because it is stressful having to watch after yourself. They need to just be kids and enjoy themselves.
I agree with Spencer but a 12 year old is not one who needs to be baptized.
When a child does something sinful God does not hold them accountable/guilty, He sees them as innocent because they don’t understand what sin is (sin is not imputed where there is no law). Any person that observes a child can see that they do sinful things, and it’s obviously not something that is always learned, it is something that is in all of us, we are born in sin. If we were not born in sin we wouldn’t ever do anything wrong.
Just a note to thank you for attacking the Church of Christ. We must be doing something right to cause you to put out the effort to degrade us. I will not attempt to debate you about your points. You are free to believe as you wish…as are we. We will wait for God to judge us in the end. Enough said.
Here is a simple hypothetical question for you Micah. If someone could raise a child from birth in the Lord and teach him so well that he did not sin, would he live forever and not die?
Adam before his sin was going to live forever, it was only after his sin that death entered the world. Not if we do not inherit Adam’s sin then if someone could live without sinning they should live forever should they not?
And if not then we inherit the effects of his sin do we not?
Hi Steve,
If you’ll look back at the title of this blog, we aren’t “attacking the Church of Christ”. We are simply a place to discuss the things that some local hyperconservative church of Christ men teach on television several hours a week.
We’re sorry if you feel somehow that you or your beliefs are being attacked – it is what our local TV men would want you to believe but it’s not true – we are simply an alternative location for discussion.
But I will agree with your last couple of sentences, and wish that our local TV church of Christ men had that same “live and let live” attitude. You are right – God will be the judge in the end.
Did you read that, JR?
Truth you are still doing it. If they are innocent then the things that they do are not sinful. It may seem like a small thing to you but you need to get your terms correct. We would be agreeing but for that fact. Also it is not because we are born in sin it is because Adam sinned. When he sinned he made it possible for us to sin. Had he not sinned things would be totally different. Sin would not be here at all had he obeyed. But since he did not now we all have to suffer.
To walkinginlove: No it is not possible to raise someone to never sin because we all sin “Ro 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” What I am saying is that a child does not sin and no he would not live forever. If you studied at all you would know that Adam could have lived forever had he eaten of the tree of life but he was kicked out of the garden before he could do that.It was not just because he had not sinned. “Ge 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:”
Gen 2:17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.”
Now Micah are you telling me that God was not really speaking the truth to Adam that Adam was going to die even if he had not taken the fruit of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?????? Surely you are not saying this! Because death entered the world through Adam!
Or was God saying that Adam was not going to die as long as he did not eat of that fruit?
You as only the CoC do did not answer my question, that is did death enter the world through Adam or do each of us have a chance to live without dieing if we manage to not sin in our lives. And if that be so how is it that some infants die at birth since they do not sin????
So Children can’t sin, yet they can die so how is it that death comes to them except through Adam’s sin???
Micah,
I understand that God has the power to make any sinner righteous. He has the power to pardon anyone who sins. And I believe that God is merciful especially to chidren. You may not believe that but I do.
Micah,
It is obvious children do sinful things that aren’t always learned. We are obviously born in sin.
If you don’t believe that…then don’t.
So Micah if I am at the hospital and my baby boy dies during birth, should I think that my child sinned and thus brought death to himself or should I think Adam’s sin brought death to my child? Since my child could not sin then it has to be Adam since death entered the world by one mans sin.
David said that he would be reunited after this life with the child that he and Bathsheba had borne, the one who died shortly after birth. It’s one of the few references in the Old Testament to an afterlife. But it is also quite clear that the very young are provided a place in Heaven.
I very much agree with that Chris! That is the ironic thing here that everyone posting in this thread most likely believes a small child is given grace and mercy in regards to the death penalty for transgression of the law, but we are to focused on the semantics of born in sin.
That is why I stress that David’s child or any child who dies is still suffering death that Adam brought into the world by his sin, thus we are born in sin because we die even if it is at an age that is before we could understand the nature of Good and Evil.
One note of interest is that Johnny does not teach the same as all CoC do on Psalms 51….
Johnny stated that it was his mother’s sin (ie. David’s mother’s sin) he was talking about but according to the lavista church of Christ:
“Notice in Psalms 51:1-4 that the sin David is agonizing over is his own sin; not his mother’s sins or Adam’s sin. ”
Now JR teaches it was his mother’s sin and thus you all are not speaking the same thing! I wonder who the false prophet is since they are different?!!
I think one think you are missing walkinginlove is that there are two deaths spoken of in the Bible. If God were just talking about physical death to Adam then he should have died instantly, but he didn’t. He became dead spiritualy he became separated from God. Yes because of Adam we all die because he was kicked out of the garden before he could eat of the tree of life. If you were argueing the point of death from Adam then I am sorry that I missed it. “Since my child could not sin then it has to be Adam since death entered the world by one mans sin.” This is true had Adam not done what he did there would be no death. We die because of Adam and also a woman has to suffer with child birth but we do not ingerite Adams sin. As has been shown with other scriptures.
“Yes because of Adam we all die”
Then we inherit his sin or the consequences of that sin, otherwise babies would never die, thus his sin was transfered to us, period end of sentence!
Oh and Micah does your father know you have helped substantiate born in sin since we suffer from Adam’s sin?
Also let me help you, I have read on other CoC sites an analogy of where a drunk driver hits your car and you die but it was not your sin that causes the death.
You might want to try that defense? However since Adam did not drive into me or have any contact with me directly the analogy does not hold up, but it is a good try so you may want to spin it that way and see if it holds up! 😉
BTW you did a very good job on TV the other night, I would ask what is the full recording of the conversation with the Minister who said some people were ignorant of the Bible?
I would like to see a comparison of the full conversation to the edited version! You will post that somewhere so it can be viewed won’t you?
Or is there something we should not see on the recording? 😉
I would be glad to let you see the whole 15 minute or so conversation if you like. We have nothing to hide with our editing we are not as the world is and try to make people say something they did not really say. I will have it put on our religious reveiw website as soon as I can.
“religious review website”? You’re joking… right? Care to share the URL of this alleged multi-media website?
“We have nothing to hide with our editing we are not as the world is and try to make people say something they did not really say.”
?!?!?!?
These cultists do nothing but try to make people say something they did not really say.
Fercryingoutloud, they even do their darndest to make the Holy Bible say stuff it doesn’t really, by ripping stuff wholesale out of context, etc.
These really are the most delusional cultists that I have ever personally encountered.
Someone sent me an e-mail a few days ago. It said: “Johnny Robertson makes Richard Dawkins look respectable.”
Considering how Richard Dawkins is such a hard-line atheist with an impassioned hatred toward those who believe in God, that is probably the worst description that I have heard about Robertson thus far…
when the day is ended, the proof of how weak your arguments are is that no preachers will come out with them in public.
You fellows have nothing to lose by making faulty arguments, Why we do not even know who you are. You know that for the most part you keep it this way so your ignorance can be kept from your real person.
No amount of fast talk can change this.
We all know what happened to Chris when he came out into the public eye.
Even this website agreed he hurt his cause by presentation of his champion argument Diane Odell. Such a helpless one as she willing to obey the Lord and be baptized to honor his commands to be saved and yet all you who are so able wish to use the thief to live out your rebellion and desire pardon on the death bed.
Thanks be to God for his servant Diane Odell who put silence and shame the “answering champ” chris Knight. The only one willing to venture into the light of reality.
We know there will not be another for his shame was such that it suffices to keep the rest in darkness where these arguments have their beginning.
We advertised your site in AR so people could see what goes on here
Ah ok Micah since you have nothing to hide, let me ask you this, do you inform people before you start recording that you are in fact recording them? Or is the poor camera views shown a result of hiding that you are recording them since that is the appearance you give with the poor angles.
So what is the truth?
On March 22, 2009 at 4:33 pm Johnny Said:
when the day is ended, the proof of how weak your arguments are is that no preachers will come out with them in public.
The Jews avoided the Gestapo also, was their argument weak with them? Secondly last time I looked the world could read this blog if they wished, only a few people watch your show. However if you want to complain about needing people to call and fight with you so you can go back to your sugar daddies to keep the wasted funding coming for your personal glory show then please by all means rant on. You were challenged to a debate on this blog and refused to do so. Thus revealing it’s not the truth but glory that is first with you, otherwise you would go back and accept the debate challenge that the other coc preacher offered to debate you.
You fellows have nothing to lose by making faulty arguments, Why we do not even know who you are. You know that for the most part you keep it this way so your ignorance can be kept from your real person.
Can you support that with BCV please? 😉
No amount of fast talk can change this.
Really now that is a righteous judgment that is wrong, I have watched you fast talk for 6 months now, some I agree with but some you are totally off base with, that goofy mess you pushed on your congregation about the man being stopped from casting out daemons as one of the 72 was total false teaching and was nothing more then your opinion but it was fast talk and it sounded good till you started asking questions after considering all you said.
We all know what happened to Chris when he came out into the public eye.
Chris is here, he is still in the public eye, now the real question is why don’t you reference this site ever on your tv show? Are you afraid people might realize you are being answered but in a format that does not allow your fast talking to win?
Even this website agreed he hurt his cause by presentation of his champion argument Diane Odell. Such a helpless one as she willing to obey the Lord and be baptized to honor his commands to be saved and yet all you who are so able wish to use the thief to live out your rebellion and desire pardon on the death bed.
As one who has been baptized, I would rather you help a death bed patient accept Christ when he can’t be moved to water per the example of the thief on the cross! remember you have said the thief was old testament and that is clearly false because the veil was torn the moment Jesus died! But like the example of the priest who was so focused on risking to be unclean that he left the man bleeding in the road, so would you allow someone a trip to hell and do nothing if water was not available. Jesus example to the thief was clear as day yet because you are afraid that salvation is only about total letter of the law living you would rather someone go to hell then take a risk that God might really mean mercy is more important then sacrifice!
Thanks be to God for his servant Diane Odell who put silence and shame the “answering champ” chris Knight. The only one willing to venture into the light of reality.
Sorry guess I missed this installment of how the baptism turns!
We know there will not be another for his shame was such that it suffices to keep the rest in darkness where these arguments have their beginning.
We advertised your site in AR so people could see what goes on here
And the full truth would be what? Did you say go type in answering the church of Christ and read or did you have select posts printed out to cherry pick the site for what you thought would help you most? And that is the saddest part of this, if I have to ask if a preacher is really telling the truth because of what I have witnessed him do in the past!
walkinginlove,
Johnny Robertson would have been one of the crowd who cried loudest to “CRUCIFY HIM!” about Jesus, because He was not “legal” enough.
In that regard, Johnny Robertson is certainly anti-Christ.
I’ve said this before, but I see Mr. Robertson as more of a Saul, needing his “road to Damascus” experience to become Paul and understand fully who Jesus was and what Jesus did for him – for all of us.
This is what I’ve been praying for with regards to Mr. Robertson, regularly.
Nathan,
Robertson would have to admit that he doesn’t know everything about God. And he would have to, as Jesus taught, “become like a little child”.
I’ve seen a lot of insults from the “Church of Christ” quarters about how I’m somehow not behaving right for a “grown man”. You know what? That doesn’t bug me at all. I take it as a high compliment from them even.
Because I’m a growing man, not a “grown” man.
The day that I come to assume that I have grown in Christ to the point that I can grow no more will be a very sad day… and I’m telling y’all here and now, that I will be lying if I ever do say such a foolish thing!
Such is one of the great dangers of the “Church of Christ” cult that we discuss here. There is no growth encouraged or even really allowed. Nobody in that cabal is permitted to question the authority that Johnny Robertson and James Oldfield have assumed for themselves.
And in their narrow, twisted mindset, a “true Christian” is so fully prepared that he/she doesn’t need to waste time with things like spiritual growth: Robertson and Oldfield give ’em a hidden video camera and out-of-context verses and put them to work “confronting” and “disputing” the “false religions”! I can practically hear Robertson telling his congregation now: “y’all don’t need milk you’re eatting meet now!” (trying to spell like him)
I don’t mind admitting for everyone to find out: I do fail as a Christian, more times than I ever succeed. I would not be “faithful” enough to pass the scrutiny of Robertson, Oldfield and their followers. That doesn’t bother me one bit. Because I discovered a long time ago that I don’t have to be faithful “enough” to be loved and accepted by Christ.
The times that I fall, those are opportunities to learn from my mistakes and grow some more. And in their own way, I cherish those times in the valley just as much as I do the moments on the mountaintop.
Those in the “Church of Christ” cult, can not know what that is like. They are made to believe that they must be “spiritually complete” to earn the satisfaction of God. When in truth they can not earn His approval like that at all. Nothing we do can earn His approval.
They cannot possibly grow in Christ.
If they do want to know the life joyful and abundant that comes in Christ, they must reject the demands of a mere man, and accept that God’s grace is freely given without anything we might do to try to merit it.
By the way, Acts 17:11. That’s two “denominations” mentioned in one verse. Exactly the same as the Methodists and Baptist received their monikers centuries later.
Just a lil’ something that God showed me over the weekend whilst spending some time in the Word.
BTW before my good friend Mr. Robertson says he did speak of this site, let me say that using the phrase “answering site” does not really say anything to people. Tell them the word press blog Answering the Church of Christ, then you will be giving people access to this site, and that will no doubt help your cause right JR?
Or does some of the posts here hurt your cause? Like this false use of Ezra 10?
On March 23, 2009 at 8:59 pm answeringchurchofchrist Said:
I’ve said this before, but I see Mr. Robertson as more of a Saul, needing his “road to Damascus” experience to become Paul and understand fully who Jesus was and what Jesus did for him – for all of us.
Now look Chris just because JR is out to kill other Christians doesn’t mean he is like Saul! 😉
This is what I’ve been praying for with regards to Mr. Robertson, regularly.
Interesting I recall seeing JR tell the guy who debated him from California that he would blind a preacher if he could pray blindness on them. I don’t recall the exact wording but I find it interesting that he wants to blind yet you are supposedly blind according to him and you are praying for his eyes to be opened!
I agree with this prayer! Can you imagine what a wonderful Gift he would be to believers if he was not driven by this bitter root towards denominational preachers? I mean in his world denominational preachers are purposely trying to lead people astray and are attempting to help Satan!?!
Amazing!
As concerning to walkinginlove
With this baptist preacher saying others are ignorant we had our cameras in plain veiw as well with the first stop we made at the baptist church right down the road. Now if people were not so afraid having to hold themselves accountable for what they say then we would not have to hide are cameras from certain individuals. What is wrong with documenting what you say so that it does not have to be a bunch of hear say. If somebody will come onto our programe sign a contract off how things will work and then while on said program break that contract do you seriously expect me to believe that if I said somebody said something that incriminated themselves that they would not lie to save face. Lets get real here. It is just like Johnny said you all have had nothing to lose on your false arguements until we came along and are makeing you stand for what you say. And we have to hide our equipment because you do not want to be held accountable you kick us out before we can talk to you. The clip is at http://www.youtube.com/user/ReligiousReviewMedia
Micah,
You have just told us that you are more in fear of “their” “false beliefs”…
…than you are possessing confidence in your own “truth”.
That does not lend any credibility whatsoever to your “church”. If anything, you have subtracted credibility from it immensely.
Could it be that you have no actual faith in your own doctrine at all, so you are attempting to compensate for that lacking by lashing out at what you perceive as “false” in others?
Psychologically, that’s called “projection”.
And it’s probably why your “Church of Christ” spends far more time attacking other people than it does actually talking about Jesus Christ.
On March 26, 2009 at 10:00 am Micah Said:
As concerning to walkinginlove
With this baptist preacher saying others are ignorant we had our cameras in plain veiw as well with the first stop we made at the baptist church right down the road.
Oh really where was the camera located physically on your person? Was someone looking through the lens as I would if I were to film my kids doing something? Or was it just hanging on your shoulder like you were carrying it and it was not in operation? If not and you were filming directly through the site can you explain why each of you are such poor video artists with many pictures pointing a walls or roofs?
Now if people were not so afraid having to hold themselves accountable for what they say then we would not have to hide are cameras from certain individuals.
I thought I saw you say before you had nothing to hide! And I also read where you say your camera’s are in plain view, now what statement is true? The hidden camera part or the plain view camera part??????
Is hiding a camera not hiding or is that like our famous ex-president depending on what the word IS means?
Did the original Church use deception?
2 Cor 4:2Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God.
So they do not use deception NOR do they distort the word of God. When you hide or not hide, depending on what statement of yours is true, are you using deception?
What is wrong with documenting what you say so that it does not have to be a bunch of hear say.
There is nothing wrong with documentation unless you are using deception in the process. What’s wrong with me posing as a phone repair person and showing up at your home and placing a bug on your phone or in your home for later broadcast to the world, but after I edit it so that only the most damaging out of context things are done?
Is that wrong?
If somebody will come onto our programe sign a contract off how things will work and then while on said program break that contract do you seriously expect me to believe that if I said somebody said something that incriminated themselves that they would not lie to save face.
So since the program is yours and does not belong do God should we consider it Godly? And yes I am pointing out the goofy argument your followers use to elevate a greeting to a church building sign. After all it is the Lord’s Church so should it not also be The Lord’s TV program?
Lets get real here.
Yes lets get real, James Oldfield has a TV add that says the doctrine that promotes unity, go ask him how many times CoC churches have split over one cup vs. many cups, or crackers vs a single loaf, or any other numerous goofy reason to split or defellowship as the contest of who can be the greatest pharisee rips churches apart. Is his advertisement given the fact we know you are not walking in unity with all other CoC churches true or REAL?
And since you down all the disunity of other churches are you not in fact doing exactly what God waned against when he talked about hypocritical judgments? Doing the same thing while condemning others for the same offenses!!!!!!! Somewhere in your mind and heart you know I am speaking truth to you in the above!
It is just like Johnny said you all have had nothing to lose on your false arguments
Oh really, according to what I read in the Bible if someone is really out to deceive others and teaches them something to take them to hell they get the trip also. So if they are teaching falsely with the mindset to fool others they have something HUGE to lose!
until we came along and are making you stand for what you say.
I am sure that God has a special place in his heart for the help you have given. Without that help God really would have been mocked thus making the Bible a lie!
And we have to hide our equipment because you do not want to be held accountable you kick us out before we can talk to you.
Yes people remove you because they know there is no arguing with you, that Baptist was speaking correctly, you are right and everyone else is wrong. That is how you are viewed, and to confirm that when was the last time a denominational person taught you something about the word of God and corrected something you thought was true?
As for the Religious Review Media, that is in fact a false statement of a name, you do not review religion or you would be visiting every CoC church who did not agree with your views of scripture. They are false teachers are they not? There are more CoC churches in the area then your three bodies, are you in fellowship with all of them and do you agree on the doctrines?
If so why don’t they also come on and support your father, if not why are they not also being bullied into a debate to fix them also?
I believe you miss the point Chris of how people are so dishonest today. If people would own up to what they say and not lie to try and save themselves we would not have to do this. Even better if they would come out of hideing and pronounce what they believe themselves we would not have to do it for them. I do not know how you got that I am afraid of them just because I want to have proof of what they say when I know they will not confirm it later. You can keep your psycho babble at home please. And it is not my church or my doctrine.
On February 25, 2009 at 1:19 pm walkinginlove Said:
According to God, our inclination is towards evil even as a child. Not saying they are accountable just saying where our leanings are as a child according to God.
WIL,
HOW ABOUT ABRAHAM’S LEANINGS AND HIS HOUSEHOLD?
Ge 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
“Psycho babble”?!
I’m not the one who just accused Jesus Christ of being a schizophrenic on live television.
Whatever y’all are smoking, can you tell me where I can buy ten pounds of it?
No answer yet Micah? Please answer my previous post in detail.
Oh Micah, where are YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUU?
Why won’t you answer my post Micah, is it that I have spoken the truth and you know it?
And if that is the case, what are you as a faithful follower of Christ going to do to contend for the truth?
Micah can’t hear you. He’s still in the hospital in Rome after being shot during Johnny’s lil’ “adventure” at the Vatican.
😛
Now Chris, we both know that as a minister of Christ JR would declare himself to have diplomatic immunity! 😉
Well Micah you have had more then a week to give an answer to the truth about the unity of the CoC!
The truth about the hidden or non-hidden cameras.