Acts 26

Tonight’s local hypercon TV show featured a message the host presented at a recent cofC-sponsored tent meeting in a nearby town.  In the beginning of his talk, the host asked his audience to go home and look up Acts 26:17-20.  Then he said,

“…you will hear the Apostle Paul say that you better get ready to do some work.  Everybody says that Paul said that it’s faith only, that’s not in the Bible.  No preacher in this town can show you the Scripture where it says “faith only”.  And I can show you where the Apostle Paul said that Jesus Christ told him to preach to the Gentiles that they better turn from darkness to light, and they better do works meet for repentance, in other works to show that you have repented… that is in the book and Jesus said it to Paul…

The interesting thing about this statement (especially with the “faith only” comments) is that the host says that works are required for salvation, and then he claims that Paul was somehow saying such a thing in this passage.  

t’aint so, McGee.

This passage isn’t dealing with how to be saved – as the host even said, “work meets repentance” means that after you’ve become a believer, you will do works that prove you are a believer.  Let’s look at it again.  

The Greek word translated by the KJV as “meet” is the Greek word ἄξιος (“axios”) which also translates like this: “befitting, congruous, corresponding to a thing” (look here for more info on this Greek word).  In other words, it isn’t saying that you have to work for your salvation, but that when you’ve turned from darkness to light, there should be work that proves your repentance.

Let’s look at that passage in a more understandable (more modern) translation:

“…that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.”  Acts 26:20b NKJV

That’s still a bit hard to understand.  Let’s look at another even more modern translation:

“that they should repent and turn to God and perform deeds worthy of their repentance.” Acts 26:20b RSV

This is a point that our hypercon host and others who agree with his teaching seem to miss.  The work that the writer of Acts talks about here (as well as in James) is a work that happens because we’ve become followers of Christ – it’s not a work that we do to become a Christian.

This is one of the stunning misconceptions that our hypercon friends try to propagate – that we must work our way to heaven.  That we have the ability to work our way to heaven.  

Well, we don’t.  

I submit that our readers consider these verses with regard to the idea that we have much of anything to contribute to our salvation by way of works:

“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:” Romans 3:10  

“I will declare thy righteousness, and thy works; for they shall not profit thee.” Isaiah 57:12  

“But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” Isaiah 64:6  

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9

“Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” Romans 3:27-28  

“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” Romans 3:31

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268 thoughts on “Acts 26

  1. I honestly do not know of any coC preachers who teach salvation by works as if our works save us. I know I heard Johnny teach on this at Martinsville church of Christ and he didn’t teach a salvation by works – but a salvations by Jesus that must accompany works.

  2. In Luke 18 when the tax collector prayed “God, be merciful to me a sinner!” in this parable that Jesus told the tax collector was part of a story Jesus told to give people a good example to follow. And I believe Jesus gave a good example of a sinners prayer.

    He told the story especially “to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and despised others.” Jesus finishes the story saying that the tax collector was justified and exalted, not the Pharisee who prayed that he was thankful to not be like others who sin and boasted about how righteous he was in the works he had done.

  3. As a small aside, today is the anniversary of my salvation. It was a number of years ago this day that I first chose to follow Jesus Christ. So today is my “spiritual birthday” so to speak.

    It was a little over two years later that I was baptized, but ‘course that had nothing to do with my salvation 🙂

  4. Wow Chris – two years. Maybe Acts 2:38 should read, repent now and be baptized when you feel like it….

    If you were the Leper who was commanded to be dipped in to be healed, would you have said “I think my faith alone is enuf or maybe I will in two years”?

    Naaman had a dreaded incurable disease leprosy. Elisha the prophet told Naaman he would be healed if he would “go wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean” (11 Kings 5:10). The leper, Naaman, was angry for he was an important man and said, “I thought he will surely come out to me, and stand, and call on the name of the Lord his God, and strike his hand over the place, and recover the leper, and he went away in a rage.” Naaman even mentioned 2 other rivers that were better, but he obeyed and when he dipped 7 times in Jordan (God’s choice) “his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean” (II Kings 5:11-14).

    Question: Would Naaman had been healed if he refused to dip then at that time?

  5. Apples and oranges, Randy.

    The story in II Kings is specific – it wasn’t that every leper who went and dipped into the Jordan seven times would be healed – it was specific to Naaman and Elisha.

    As to the idea that our local hypercons don’t teach a works-based salvation, what will they say if you aren’t baptized a certain exact way? What if you don’t take the Lord’s Supper each first day of the week? What if you miss church one Sunday? What if you disagree with the their interpretation of Scripture?

    Sounds works-based to me.

  6. Is Peter specific with repentance in Acts 2:38 ?

    When they ask Peter “what shall we do” what did Peter tell them?

    Seems he was quite specific here Nathan.

    Far as the Lords Supper goes, I do not agree with how most come to call it a binding example, but I do believe there are good reasons that we should partake the Lords Supper each Sunday and there is much historical evidence that shows that the early church had the Lords Supper each Sunday. Was this some Law or was this Love? I believe they done so out of Love and not some legal code.

    There are quite a few specific things we are to do as Christians and following them doesn’t mean one is legalistic. I do think many have gone astray when it comes to inferences and binding laws on people from what they infer. We all don’t always infer the sames things – so who gets to make these laws?

    My point with Naaman was that he was commanded to dip – just as Peter commanded baptism – they both are very specific…dip 7 times – repent and be baptized….both are commands.

    Again, was Peter specific when he said repent? If so, he also tied with it “be baptized”. Far as mode of baptism, you prove they sprinkled…

  7. Acts 2:38 is governed by previous verses.

    Acts 2:23This man was handed over to you by God’s set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.

    How many here were there to yell crucify him?

    And Acts 2:36″Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

    Again the same question as above!

    Thus he is talking to the men of Israel, the Jewish people who had helped nail Jesus to the cross. While I know the argument is coming that we all did that, the fact is they were physically present at his sentencing to death and were happy to see him die!

    Cornelius is a perfect example of Peter’s call for certain things to be refuted when dealing with gentiles. His process is backwards and frankly he is already saved based on his faith and knowledge of who Jesus is. If you open your eyes without bias and read Acts 10 you will see that Cornelius is talking with Jesus as he is the Angel, his prayers are being heard and his acts of mercy towards the poor are seen by God. Peter does not really understand what happened in Acts 10 because of his Jewish belief system. Peter’s retelling of the Story in Acts 11 is wrong, he says the Angel said that Cornelius and his house would all be saved and the reality is that they were already saved or at least Cornelius is shown to already have a relationship with God before Peter arrives. Peter tells something in Acts 11 that is not told in Acts 10. Peter says in Acts 11….

    Acts 11:12The Spirit told me to have no hesitation about going with them. These six brothers also went with me, and we entered the man’s house. 13He told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter. 14He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’

    Cornelius is the man whos house he enters and Peter says that Cornelius says household will be saved and he did not say it and it will be the same from now till Jesus returns! You can dance a religious doctrine around that all you want but the truth is still the truth and the truth is that Peter misquotes Cornelius! The only question is why?!?! My answer at this point is because Peter was biased and does not consider the fact that Cornelius was already talking with Jesus, and that is the same bias that most here have and will not admit the truth because of it!

    The truth is Cornelius was saved before Peter arrives, it was only the gifts that fell on them to keep Peter alive and the gentiles from being killed by the Jewish believers who were already mad about Peter entering a gentile home that was unclean!

    Wake up blind people and see the truth!

    ———————————————–

    Why did Jesus do different processes for different people when healing them? Could it be that he was doing them to help them believe?

    Why was the Centurion who told Jesus he did not have to come to his home able to do so? Because his faith in Jesus was strong enough to not need a hands on healing, Jesus was amazed at his faith, and did the healing as the Centurion believed.

    If anyone believes they do not need water to be saved, their faith is strong enough to not need an outside process to make it real! Just like the centurion did not need Jesus to come lay hands on the one sick at his home!

    Please open your eyes to the truth of what binding and losing really means!

    You are so trapped in the physical you can not see the truth of the spiritual side of things and what factor faith plays in the process.

  8. What if we are right WIL ? What if God requires that we believe, confession Jesus as Lord, repentance, and baptism….all which are something we DO…what if we are right? What if baptism is the place where God does an operation on the sinner? What if baptism is just an act of faith? Is belief an act of faith? Is confessing Jesus an act of faith? Is repentance an act of faith? All of these are something we DO…why pick on baptism as if if cant be an act of faith? Repentance is the hardest one of these that the sinners must do, not baptism…baptism is the most passive act of faith.

  9. What if you are wrong, considering you have wagered salvation itself on baptism.

    If I am saved and you have judged me unsaved because I have not kept the new law according to you and you also have violated that same law in different ways, what is your fate?

    BTW I have been baptized, according to Jesus command in Matthew 28:19. Are you going to tell me Jesus was wrong?

    Finally are you going to answer any of my questions posted above? If not why can’ you? You are one of the experts in the new law are you not?

  10. How does Peter quote something that did not happen?

    Why does Jesus do different methods when healing people?

    Why does the centurion not need those processes done?

  11. Why the wait to get baptized? There were reasons. I ain’t sayin’ what those were here (‘cuz of certain loons who are still obsessed with me and my blog among other things).

    But the people who matter understood and still understand. No one ever denied that I was already saved and following Christ to the best of my ability and understanding. And it was probably better anyway that I waited, also for reasons which I won’t be talking about here.

    In the end it was a beautiful experience for the right reasons. Instead of an act done out of egotism and spite that the local “Church of Christ” has denigrated baptism into.

  12. On November 3, 2008 at 11:42 am walkinginlove Said:
    What if you are wrong, considering you have wagered salvation itself on baptism.

    – I dont think I have ever stated this WIL. Jesus saves! His blood provides the cure for sin…Im sorry you dont like the way God designed for one to be forgiven by His blood…but the facts are we have to act in faith to make that a reality and yes…baptism is an act of faith…nothing in the water earns/merits forgivenes…God does the work Col 2:11-12

  13. Sorry nice spin what I dislike is the ignoring of God’s word in order to promote a denomination or a doctrine.

    Show me where Cornelius tells Peter his household will be saved? IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE IN ACTS 10!

    Prove that the Angel is not Jesus Christ, who else in the Bible as an Angel can be called Lord?

  14. The only difference I see in the CoC and other denominations is that they have decided not to be polite and disagree but wage open war against all others.

    Otherwise they have their own man made traditions.

    For instance this waste of energy of Adam’s sin nature, has anyone ever considered that his nature was altered after his eating of the fruit and that he sinned after he ate and not before?

    How does one sin when you have no concept of Good and Evil???????????????????????????????

  15. WIL, Corey addressed this on his blog already. Go to Corey’s site/blog and pick back up where you stopped.

  16. I’ve read what he wrote and it still does not show the truth, you can dance around it and dress the pig up and it still is going to be a pig.

    Acts 10 does not say anything about salvation, either the quote of the “Angel” himself aka Jesus or Cornelius himself, but Peter the all knowing and all powerful knows more about what Cornelius or the Angel said then they do.

    Yeah and pigs can fly!

  17. 1 Pet. 3:21, “And corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,”
    1.This verse negates water baptism by saying the baptism that saves is not the kind that deals with the removal of dirt in the flesh. That is, it is not the issue of water which washes the body, but that baptism of the heart which is an appeal for a good conscience to God.

    2.Some think that the baptism corresponds to the Ark because it was the Ark that saved them, not the floodwaters. this is a possibility but one of the problems with it is that this interpretation does not seem to stand grammatically since the antecedent of Baptism is most probably in reference to the water, not the Ark. But, water did not save Noah. This is why Peter excludes the issue of water baptism being the thing that saves us because he says, “not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God”. Peter says that is not the application of water that saves us but a pledge of the good conscience. Therefore, baptism here most probably represents the breaking away of the old sinful life and entrance into the new life the same way that the flood waters in Noah’s time was the destruction of the sinful way and once through it known entered into his new life.

    3.Peter’s explanatory comment shows us that the act of physical baptism is not what saves, but the “baptism of appeal to God.” This appeal to God is by faith the same as Noah’s faith in God led him to build the Ark, enter it, and remain in it.

  18. Acts 2:38, “And Peter said to them, “Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

    What is going on here is that repentance and forgiveness of sins are connected. In the Greek, “repent” is in the plural and so is “your” of “your sins.” They are meant to be understood as being related to each other. It is like saying, “All of you repent, each of you get baptized, and all of you will receive forgiveness.” It isn’t baptism that gets forgiveness of sins, but repentance. You see, repentance is a mark of salvation because it is granted by God (2 Tim. 2:25) and is given to believers only. In this context, only the regenerated, repentant person is to be baptized. Baptism is the manifestation of the repentance, that gift from God that is the sign of the circumcised heart. That is why it says, repent and get baptized

  19. 1.Baptism is a ritual. It is a ceremony. If it is necessary for salvation, then a ritual must be observed in order to obtain Christ’s forgiveness. This is salvation by grace and ritual, not salvation by grace through faith.

    2.Faith occurs when you believe. You are justified by faith when you believe, otherwise you’re not justified by faith. So, Acts 2:38 cannot mean that we have to be baptized in water in order to have our sins forgiven.

    3.It means that we are baptized to indentify with the forgiveness of sins.

  20. Mark 1:4, “John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.”
    Also, if we are to understand this verse to mean that baptism is necessary for salvation, then we must also understand that repentance is necessary. But this is a problem because it would require that we be good in order to be saved – but this amounts to justification by works. Of course, we are supposed to repent of our sins, but it is not the repentance of sins that brings us salvation; rather, it is salvation that brings us repentance because unbelievers don’t turn from their sins, only believers do only the saved seek to honor God.

  21. 1 Cor. 12:13, “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.”
    Which baptism is this speaking of, the baptism of water or the baptism of the Spirit.
    Eph. 4:5 tells us that there is “one faith, one Lord, one baptism.”
    If this means that we get into the church by being baptized in water, and no one is in the Christian church unless he or she has gone through the ritual. This would mean that salvation is not by grace through faith, but by faith and ritual.
    The very verse here tells us about being made to drink of the one Spirit. This is an obvious figurative usage but it tells us two things. First, it alludes to the baptism of the spirit, not of water. Second, if we must require that the baptism spoken of here means water, but why not require the literalness also of drinking the Spirit? It it makes no sense composes upon the text. Therefore, this verse is not dealing with water baptism but Spirit baptism.

  22. Gal. 3:27, “For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.”
    A. Water baptism is not mentioned here. This is probably a reference to baptism of the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor. 12:13 says, “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.”

    Paul taught that baptism represented identification with Christ. Consider 1 Cor. 10:1-4, “For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.” Therefore we can see it to be baptized into his refrained identification not the means by which were saved.
    This might be a reference to the Roman garment of the full-grown man, assumed when ceasing to be a child.

  23. Col. 2:12, “having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.”

    This verse does not show the necessity of being baptized in order to be saved. It simply speaks about our identification with Christ and are baptism. And nowhere here says baptism is necessary for salvation.

    If anything, this verse in its context equates baptism and circumcision: Col. 2:11-12, “in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.” Paul is relating the ritual of circumcision with the ritual of baptism, both are covenant signs.

    Still, this verse in no way says that water baptism is necessary for salvation. But it does equate circumcision and baptism together. We must be reminded of how Paul condemned the Judaizers for requiring the ritual of circumcision to be saved. We can make a strong case here at requiring the ritual of baptism would likewise be condemned.

  24. Heb. 10:22, “let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.”

    Heb. 9:14, “how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?”

    1 Peter 1:2, “according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood…” This is all reference to the Old Testament ceremonies of sprinkling blood in order to cleanse the temple (Heb. 9). This is what the high priest did and Jesus, who is our high priest according to the order of Melchizedek, likewise cleanses us with his blood. This is how our hearts are cleaned, but the sprinkling of the blood of Christ, not by our bodies getting dunked in water.

  25. And for the record as long as Corey passively condones JR’s gossip TV show as being Godly and of God I have nothing really to say to him on his site.

  26. Im not God, Lee. But ( always a but aint it ) we can talk with people and conclude if they obeyed the gospel. Do you think JW’s are saved, Lee? If not, why? If so, why?

  27. “But ( always a but aint it ) we can talk with people and conclude if they obeyed the gospel.”

    We are told in Acts 8 that Simon Magus “obeyed” the gospel as you note in that he was baptized. But was he saved because he was “faithful” in that regard?

    It’s obvious that Simon did believed in Christ… but his interest in Christ was only for the power that the disciples were demonstrating.

    Early Christian writers record that Simon Magus was later worshiped as a god. He even had his own temple in Rome, complete with a statue of him that his followers would pray to. Jerome even reported that Simon Magus declared that his followers were the only ones who would go to Heaven and that he was the only one who had authority to decide what was really of God and what wasn’t.

    (Hmmmm…)

    And yet, the Bible is clear that Simon Magus “obeyed the gospel”.

    But he was by all accounts not truly saved.

    It is not how “faithful” we are in regard to physical action – such as baptism – which saves us. It is not even our belief in Christ which can save us, because we are told that even the demons and devils of Hell believe in Christ!

    What does save us is our recognizing that we fall short of God’s will for us and that only His grace through Christ is what will save us from the condemnation we have earned for ourselves. We can not earn that grace on our own merit.

    Those who demand that we must “remain faithful” only desire to enslave us to, inevitably, more sin.

    No wonder the joy of Christ is absent from their lives.

  28. On November 3, 2008 at 6:54 pm Chris Knight Said:
    What does save us is our recognizing that we fall short of God’s will for us and that only His grace through Christ is what will save us from the condemnation we have earned for ourselves. We can not earn that grace on our own merit.

    Amen Chris!

  29. randy,
    who does the speaking….as in speaking in tongues?
    the spirit or the person. i know you think it has passed.
    but in acts lets say………who was in control?
    lee

  30. Chris said: Those who demand that we must “remain faithful” only desire to enslave us to, inevitably, more sin.

    – please explain a bit on this Chris. Are you saying we shouldnt remain faithful? I dint think that is what you have in mind…

  31. On November 3, 2008 at 8:23 pm lee Said:
    randy,
    who does the speaking….as in speaking in tongues?
    the spirit or the person. i know you think it has passed.
    but in acts lets say………who was in control?
    lee

    – 1 Corinthians 14:28-35
    28but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.

    29Let two or three (A)prophets speak, and let the others (B)pass judgment.

    30But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent.

    31For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted;

    32and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets;

    33for God is not a God of (C)confusion but of peace, as in (D)all the churches of the (E)saints.

  32. Lee, please provide me with the scripture in Acts that you specifically are inquiring about. I am somewhat surprised you went to Acts, seeing its so clear there what tongues were and their purpose.

  33. “- please explain a bit on this Chris. Are you saying we shouldnt remain faithful? I dint think that is what you have in mind…”

    If there is a sincere desire to pursue Christ (and I tend to believe that He and He alone is the ultimate judge of that quality) then there will be a desire to be faithful to Him… but out of LOVE, and not out of legalistic obligation.

    So it is that I believe that those who follow Christ will desire baptism. Whether immediately after being saved or (as in my case) a few years down the road (and nobody here even knows the story about that but me anyway…). But that in no way has anything to do with securing salvation. Salvation comes automatically by the grace of God when we accept it. Nowhere in scripture are we told that God is waiting to bestow salvation on us on condition of our getting dunked.

    Again, baptism and all other such acts come from a good conscience that already exists in the state of saved by grace. Baptism is meaningless without accepting and being in the grace of God already.

  34. In the Scriptures, “tongues” always mean languages that really exist(ed).
    Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, (E)devout men from EVERY NATION under heaven.
    And when (F)this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them “speak in his own language”.
    They were amazed and astonished, saying, “Why, are not all these who are speaking (H)Galileans?
    And how is it that “we each hear them in our own language” to which we were born?
    Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and (I)Cappadocia, (J)Pontus and (K)Asia,
    Phrygia and (M)Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around (N)Cyrene, and (O)visitors from Rome, both Jews and [a](P)proselytes,
    Cretans and Arabs—“we hear them in our own tongues” speaking of the mighty deeds of God.”

    This is a far cry from what the modern tongue movement is today. God through the Holy Spirit enabled the 11 to speak the very tongue that the hears were born, so that they could hear the message.

  35. So 120 people speaking in different languages were heard by others???????? Do you really think that 120 people all speaking in different languages would really be able to be heard by others? It would be chaos!

    Go have 120 people read different parts of the bible all at once and see if you can understand them!

    1 Cor 13:1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

    Tell me what tongue do Angels speak in, Chinese perhaps?

  36. is there a difference in acts and other books?
    you believe it dosent exist now. i get that.
    read my question and give me your answer.
    lee

  37. “Prove that the Angel is not Jesus Christ, who else in the Bible as an Angel can be called Lord?”

    Ps 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
    Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
    Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
    (KJV)

  38. it was the 11, not 120 that spoke. But yes they heard it…you are very right WIL….I started to make that point ealier, but I knew you would. Poeple ofetn do not see that it was heaing…

  39. Due to personal reasons, I will be taking an extended leave from the blog world. I hope I haven’t offended anyone on here, if so, please forgive me.

  40. On November 4, 2008 at 12:06 pm faithfull Said:

    “Prove that the Angel is not Jesus Christ, who else in the Bible as an Angel can be called Lord?”

    Ps 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
    Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
    Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
    (KJV)

    Rev 22:8I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. 9But he said to me, “Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all who keep the words of this book. Worship God!”

    Acts 10:4Cornelius stared at him in fear. “What is it, Lord?” he asked.

    How is it that the Angel in Acts 10 was not correcting him for calling him Lord?

    As to your passages yes Jesus was a little less then Angels because he walked as a man when he was here on the earth but he rules as is Lord of all now!

    The Greek word for Lord is kurie

    Definition:1) he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has
    power of deciding; master, lord
    1a) the possessor and disposer of a thing
    1a1) the owner; one who has control of the person, the master
    1a2) in the state: the sovereign, prince, chief, the Roman emperor
    1b) is a title of honour expressive of respect and reverence,
    with which servants greet their master
    1c) this title is given to: God, the Messiah

    The Angel is Jesus, and Cornelius belongs to him! Do the Angels sit at the right hand of the Father? I think not!

  41. Act 26:17-20
    Ac 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
    18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins…
    Let Nathan answer here (not polite to answer when you are not spoken to) so please refrain from answering if not nathan… I said please

    Nathan did Paul have to go to them and preach fro them to have the chance to be saved?

    Is this just window dressing? Are the saved “elected” regardless of whether they ever hear the truth or not?
    or………… is it the case that salvation is dependent upon someone with the truth getting truth to those not having it?

    while we wait on that answer
    please notice the exact same truth in Peter going to Cornelius

    Ac 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles
    by my mouth
    should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

    now see what what Peter said

    Ac 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
    43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

    Go preach is the command
    what if they have no preacher?

    Ro 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
    15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

    any way you slice it there is a man between you and the salvation

    what if the man commanded won’t “work” (preach to the lost)?

    Nathan please give us some Calvin here so we can see the real stripe you carry

    I will be happy to debate (dispute openly in the market place Act 17:1-3,17) with someone who will have the courage to set forth this devilish doctrine of do nothing salvation

  42. my latest volunteer seems to have decide to cancel (“THE REVEREND” TOM MOTLEY)
    scheduled for Nov 13th
    was going to defend what is on this page written by “mike”
    on 1Cor 12:13 and “spiritual” baptism

    well maybe since chris has revived he can come on and help us see the truth

    nice to see you over came your recent “unbelievable” (I thought it was a ploy) fall.

  43. from chris just last month (per his website)

    This blog is closing down. Possibly for good. I can no longer afford, at the present time, to maintain it as actively as I would like. Long story short;

    my personal life has become a shamble.

    I have hurt a lot of people. Including those closest to me. I was so busy fighting the big battles, that I neglected to fight the ones that matter most. I became so engaged in trying to serve God, that I forgot how to seek God.It has cost me more than I have every lost in my life.I am now in a very dark place. The darkest that I have ever been in. I can’t run from that. I can’t go into another room and pretend that it is not there. I must own up to it. I have destroyed a lot of peoples belief and trust in me. And I would do anything to get it back. I don’t know if that is possible. The only thing that I know to do, all that is left to me, is to come before God as a broken and humilated man, ask Him for mercy and grace, and pray that He will guide in rebuilding my life. Perhaps in time, the restoration that I have literally begged for will come. And if not, then I must pray for strength to move forward. According to His will, what ever that may be.To those I have hurt; I am sorry. This was my fault. I was not as strong as I should have been. I can’t ask for your forgiveness this time. I have to earn it. I like to believe that already God has shown me the away to begin doing that.No matter what happens, I will still love you all.To everyone who has visited this blog over the past five years; Thank You. I hope that your time here was entertaining, edifying, and maybe even educational. Maybe someday we can do this again. God Bless, and Farewell.

  44. I love how Randy steps off and Johnny steps in – how coincidental. I happen to work with Randy, so I hear these arguments frequently.

  45. i wish randy would step on over and we could experience the unity of which the Bible speaks when we are “common” Jude 3

    “mike” I like the way you all are willing fill up the cyber-space but when it comes to standing up in the open “market” for all to view , well you depart from your great hero Paul
    Ac 17:17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.

    what is up with that?

    so far the only only one to come out of the closet is Chris

    Randy is not one of you so he is excepted

    Yeah Chris you are actually to be credited above your fellow answering buds

    hope all is well with you by the way

    if you want to know how I responded about you when I heard the website closure
    ask Mark C at 39

    how about it “mike” any answers?

  46. while I wait on any “christians” to come on and be Like Paul of ole
    Php 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

    I will just have to discuss with atheist Larry
    at least he has the conviction \ courage to defend his belief

    pretty sad

  47. see ya Wed \ thur\ sun\
    I really believe it
    house top if you know what i mean
    probably not so I will spell it out

    Mt 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

  48. oh did u hear
    Josh Jones decided not to show up either
    Baptist for ya

    he burnt the tent down in Eden???
    was supposed to come to Danville

    no show

    how about Mr Fountain?
    babies in crib lies and all

    he believes this I guess
    the baby is really dancing tot eh beat?

  49. Mike,

    There are many coincidences where Mr. Robertson is concerned.

    Mr. Robertson,

    Of course there is a person between an unbeliever and salvation – a person who will be sent by God. Someone needs to go for the Gospel to go forward. Our going is commanded by Jesus himself in what we call the Great Commission of Matthew 28:16-20.

    So, while God could save without our help (because He’s God), God has chosen to use people as the beautiful feet (Isa 52:7) of the Good News of His grace.

  50. JR kicking everyone out of your church and defellowshiping with others who do not believe as you and calling everyone who does not practice as you nonchristians is not unity, its call isolation!

  51. On November 4, 2008 at 4:42 pm Johnny Said:

    oh did u hear
    Josh Jones decided not to show up either
    Baptist for ya

    I personally am glad when anyone changes their mind, it only means that they are not participating in your sin JR.

  52. JR you are like a little school bully with your taunts, why don’t you grow up and start acting like you are decent and in order.

  53. Johnny tried to say the other night on his show that we are wrong to think that only God can save us by His grace and mercy and that we are wrong to wait on God to help us. I take that as Johnny doesn’t believe God has the power to work in us through the Holy Spirit.

    “You who have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by the law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit eagerly wait the hope of righteousness by faith.”

    “knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.”

    “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast.”

    “For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with the might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you being rooted and grounded in love may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think according to the power that works in us, to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.”

  54. On November 4, 2008 at 7:38 pm Chris Knight Said:
    It appears that the old saying is NOT true, ladies and gentlemen.

    Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice,
    Yessireee Chris it appears that a lot of “old sayings” are NOT true such as,
    1. total depravity:
    Eze 18:1 ¶ The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying,
    2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge?
    3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
    4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

    Ac 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.Ac 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

    Php 2:12 ¶ Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

    2. unconditional election,
    Eze 18:5 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,
    6 And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour’s wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman,
    7 And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment;
    8 He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man,
    9 Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.

    Mt 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
    9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    3. limited atonement,
    Eze 18:9 Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.

    Eze 18:21 ¶ But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

    Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
    32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

    Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    1Jo 2:1 ¶ My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
    2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

    Re 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

    4. irresistable grace,
    Eze 18:1 ¶ The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying,
    2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge?
    3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.

    Ac 7:51 ¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

    5. perseverence of the saints,
    Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
    25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
    26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

    Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
    23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

    2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
    21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
    22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

    Others include, mechanical instruments of music in worship today.

    command for tithing today.

    authority for womaen preachers.

    authority for men to wear titles as “rev””chief apostle”

    authority for teaching all these damnable doctrines such as “baptist” “catholic” “methodist” “pentecostal”
    And the list goes on and on and on……..

  55. On November 5, 2008 at 12:15 pm Chris Knight Said:
    Loquaciousness cannot compensate for a lack of literacy.

    Most of what I posted is scripture, so are you saying that Jesus talked to much?

  56. On November 5, 2008 at 12:37 pm word Said:
    Most of what I posted is scripture, so are you saying that Jesus talked to much?

    word, even the devil himself could quote scripture:

    word, how are these verses applied in your life?

    “knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.”

    “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast.”

  57. truth said
    “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast.”

    but will he go to the source of their conversion?
    My opponent AC Smith PHD tried to say that Eph is not Eph when I brought it to his academic attention and the Phelps just smiled looking like deer in head lights

    what about you “truth”

  58. On November 5, 2008 at 1:02 pm Truth Said:
    word, how are these verses applied in your life?

    “knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.”

    TRUTH,
    Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    Truth,Do you believe on Jesus Christ?

  59. On November 5, 2008 at 1:41 pm word Said:
    Truth,Do you believe on Jesus Christ?

    Yes, with all my heart, soul, and mind.

  60. On November 5, 2008 at 1:47 pm Truth Said:
    Yes, with all my heart, soul, and mind.

    truth, Are you trying to work your way to heaven?

    Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

  61. On November 5, 2008 at 1:51 pm word Said:
    On November 5, 2008 at 1:47 pm Truth Said:
    Yes, with all my heart, soul, and mind.

    truth, Are you trying to work your way to heaven?

    Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

    no, because I believe it is by Gods grace that I am saved.

  62. On November 5, 2008 at 1:56 pm Truth Said:
    no, because I believe it is by Gods grace that I am saved.

    truth, Is this a life and death statement?
    Lu 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

  63. I believe when someone comes to believe Christ is their Savior they are repenting, why else would they turn to Christ as their SAVIOR.

  64. truth, Is confession necessary?

    Mt 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

    Did the jews really believe Moses or did they just trust he was snet from God?

    Joh 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
    45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
    46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
    47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

  65. truth, Do really believe God’s word or do you just trust Jesus is sent by God.

    1Pe 3:21 ¶ The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

  66. I believe God’s grace and mercy saved me not water.

    “not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God” Gods word tells us that baptism does not take away sins but baptism comes from a good conscience that already exists in the state of saved by grace.

  67. Truth, keep speaking the Truth. You cannot help if these guys choose not to accept it and just want to fight. The plain fact that they cannot even accept CLEAR Scripture-pure Word of God Biblical Scripture that we are saved by grace through faith, and want to keep making it about our works-is VERY telling.

    But, keep on-because you know where your salvation lies and you know what you speak is truth. Ultimately, it is up to them to accept it, or continue on with their selfish agenda. They must be desperate for something on their TV show, which is why the bait is being thrown out.

    I will say those verses are incredibly encouraging, and am so thankful for God’s awesome grace and mercy.

  68. On November 5, 2008 at 2:29 pm Truth Said:

    Gods word tells us that baptism does not take away sins but baptism comes from a good conscience that already exists in the state of saved by grace.

    Ananias must have missed that according to you.

    Ac 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

    Peter also,

    Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    truth said, Gods word tells us that baptism does not take away sins

    Gods word does say,
    1Pe 3:21 ¶ The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us

    Mr 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

    Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

    If you want to stand before God in the last day and tell Him that you didn’t have to obey Him that is your choice.

  69. “They must be desperate for something on their TV show, which is why the bait is being thrown out.”

    Katherine,
    That is exactly what The Illiterate One and his followers are doing.

  70. On November 5, 2008 at 2:44 pm Chris Knight Said:

    “They must be desperate for something on their TV show, which is why the bait is being thrown out.”

    CHirs you know by now that the material is endless

    We sure don’t need you all
    If I did I would have been all over your “shut down”
    now wouldn’t I?

    Admit it… you are surprised we didn’t mention not one time.

    The truth is there may be hope for some on here so I continue to come back and check the pulse.

  71. On November 5, 2008 at 2:29 pm Truth Said:
    Gods word tells us that baptism does not take away sins but baptism comes from a good conscience that already exists in the state of saved by grace.

    so actually what you are saying is that Paul did not really have to submit to being baptized here?

    Ac 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

    And then Paul didn’t really need to baptize the jailor at midnight after an earthquake according to you?

    Ac 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

    And according to you Peter told the 3000 to save themselves from this untoward generation and really he should have told them to confer with you and you would have told them that God saved them from the foundation of the world and that He really sent Jesus to suffer the death of the cross just for show?

  72. Ac 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
    41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

  73. And according to you Peter knows more then the Angel aka. Jesus in Acts 10 or Cornelius as to what the Angel said to Cornelius. That water actually meant something in Acts 10, when in fact Cornelius was already “saved”. How is it that his prayers were heard? I thought only members of the CoC had their prayers heard?!?!?!?!?!

    That the Veal’s tearing meant nothing till Pentecost and that the Jews were under the old covenant till then. That is false teaching to protect your water salvation theology! I can get a thousand dollars together if you want to sign a waver that will allow yourself to be beaten, nailed to a cross and then have your legs broken to prove you can keep from sinning in that amount of pain. Remember the murder bar was raised to hatred in your heart. If someone were to place me in that situation I would be angry at them because I know my flesh would be crying out for justice at my oppressors.

    SO can you keep from sinning between all that pain? No!

    Yet you fail to see that Peter was biased and misquoting Cornelius to those he was speaking to in Acts 11, and you fail to see the Veal tearing for what it is, the signal of the New Covenant.

    Please go ahead and quote your testator verse again, it only confirms that you are WRONG! Jesus death was the finish of it as he said when he died. And you refuse to see that because it makes water no longer the only way, thus you will no longer be able to replace Jesus with water in the meaning of the narrow way.

    Peter told those Jews who had KILLED Jesus to save themselves, and made their way the easiest as he could by giving them a pardon for Christs death and a promotion to a position of Priest as only Priests used water for purification rights in Jewish teachings.

    Lets play lets make a deal, do you want door number one where you stand before God for killing his son, or door number two where you are forgiven of your sin for killing Christ and we will make you a priest in the process. Now what door do you think they would take? The amazing thing is some of them did not take up Peter’s offer!

    The death of the testator had happened on the cross, not on Pentecost!

  74. On November 5, 2008 at 2:59 pm Chris Knight Said:

    And now you all know why I have chosen from this time forth to refer to him as “The Illiterate One”.

    Nathan Chris called me a name. Is n’t that against the love policy?
    And Kathrine got caught up in it too.

    I hope you are watching.

    We would not want people to think you have DOUBLE standard for those who have something in common with you

  75. Yep, Chris-every word they say just continues to prove my point. They are not holding out hope or trying to save anyone-just attack, attack, attack, ignore, ignore, ignore, feed the agenda at all costs-even if that means running over many of God’s children who have chosen to follow HIM and obey Him out of love, not fear.

    Even when plain and clear Scripture is placed in front of them-they choose not to accept it, but just keep plowing on with their agenda.

    Johnny, we have called your bluff over and over-we KNOW what you are trying to do-you are not fooling many people on here with your baiting. It seems to me that you think you need us-not the other way around. Otherwise…why is it REALLY that you and your mini-Johnny’s keep showing up?

  76. It could be worse.

    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.

    Mel Brooks has the right idea: if someone seeks to destroy you, do not hate them in kind…

    …just show the world how laughable they are instead.

  77. I didn’t get caught up in anything-we can call a spade a spade, and I do have a mind of my own.

    Everything will always come out into the light, and I am trying to coax you into the True light-it is you who stays in the shadows of your doctrine and doesn’t see anyone as your brother and sister who just happens to disagree with you-whether God has chosen to save them or not matters little to you. That is why I am tired of your game.

  78. chris called Johnny

    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.
    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.
    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.
    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.
    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.
    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.
    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.
    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.
    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.
    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.
    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.
    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.
    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.
    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.
    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.
    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.
    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.
    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.
    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.
    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.

  79. kathrine said
    That is why I am tired of your game.

    I know you can see that Chris should not talk like that
    so if I was “T trash” wouldnt he be insulting everyone else who happens to be in a trailer?

    Nathan please come on in and moderate

  80. 1. I never articulated by name who I was referring to.

    2. I chose NOT to actively use said terminology.

    3. Someone here has readily affixed the appellation to himself regardless. And quite exuberantly so, it may be pointed out.

  81. i think i have rung chris bell
    are you going to video me again chris?

    do u need to get your friends on tv?

    is money low is that why u shut down the site

    I could get a friend to rent you a trailer

    hey I actually live in a trailer
    I could rent u mine?

  82. Randy do u still have a double wide?
    Chris I think you may have just showed us your real self?

    can I state that Chris Knight says if you live in a trailer you are trash?

    i think this is actually in print is it not
    I don’t have to say it
    i can just cut and paste

    oh hurry
    before it is removed

  83. whew I got it

    On November 5, 2008 at 3:23 pm Chris Knight Said:

    It could be worse.

    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.

    Mel Brooks has the right idea: if someone seeks to destroy you, do not hate them in kind…

    …just show the world how laughable they are instead.

    let us reprint it here and where else could I bring it up?
    how about tomorrow on a call-in show
    Chris needs votes from some trailer folk if he is going to get on the school board
    wow this will be effective
    dont you think

    Mr Love Himself
    says

    On November 5, 2008 at 3:23 pm Chris Knight Said:

    It could be worse.

    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.

    Mel Brooks has the right idea: if someone seeks to destroy you, do not hate them in kind…

    …just show the world how laughable they are instead.

  84. I don’t think any name calling should take place-none of us should even be fighting or calling names, which is my beef in the first place. We, who call ourselves Christ followers, disciples of Christ, God followers should be uniting-because we are in on our battle-a spiritual one-so, when we choose to battle each other, call names, label, demean, go behind people’s backs and try to deceive them with trickery-it is ALL wrong. I have never liked what has gone on with you and Chris-I think you egg each other on, and it is not good. I don’t even know what all has gone one, but it seems it was escalated to a point it never should have. But, Johnny-you DO come on here obviously BAITING people to stumble, to sin, to say something that you can use-you do it on purpose, and that is not right either. If you expect everyone else to be held accountable, then you too need to be held accountable.

    By the way, Johnny-my name is Katherine, not Kathrine or Kathryen, or Kath…Katherine. Thank you.

  85. On November 5, 2008 at 3:19 pm Johnny Said:
    Johnny wrote that Chris was name calling after the following post from Christ

    On November 5, 2008 at 2:59 pm Chris Knight Said:

    And now you all know why I have chosen from this time forth to refer to him as “The Illiterate One”.

    Nathan Chris called me a name. Is n’t that against the love policy?
    And Kathrine got caught up in it too.

    I hope you are watching.

    let us get the context

    then Chris says
    On November 5, 2008 at 3:23 pm Chris Knight Said:

    It could be worse.

    I could have chosen to use the terminology “Unregenerate Reprobate East Texas Trailer Trash”.

    Mel Brooks has the right idea: if someone seeks to destroy you, do not hate them in kind…

    …just show the world how laughable they are instead.

    Now Chris sees his error so he decides to clear himself
    On November 5, 2008 at 3:36 pm Chris Knight Said:

    1. I never articulated by name who I was referring to.

    2. I chose NOT to actively use said terminology.

    3. Someone here has readily affixed the appellation to himself regardless. And quite exuberantly so, it may be pointed out.

    now we got it all in one post good
    good Johnny… aka URETTT aka IO

    Chris can I ask you something
    how is this giving glory to Jesus?

  86. Katherine,
    He is an unlettered man, who more than he even realizes is used as a puppet by those sponsoring him from afar.

    Were it not for that, he would be utterly nothing. And would not be able to even attempt the mischief that he labors seemingly every waking moment to foment.

    He is not a spiritual leader. And more than one person has told me that they have to question the apparently limited mentality of those who would adhere to such a man as members of his “church”.

    Why should this community be intimidated, however so minor, by such an illiterate and uncouth individual?

    It shouldn’t. It should laugh at him instead.

  87. tonite we show the upcoming discussion with the false teacher “REV” Motley
    also some footage from the Atheist upcoming discussion

    the atheist says he is skeptical because of all the different kinds of religions parading around claiming to be of Jesus but refusing to agree on the doctrine Jesus gave us to UNIFY

    Joh 17:20 ¶ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
    21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

    Next we hope to have DCC professor of Sociology and then Biology on to show false position

    unless maybe Nathan would like to debate some of the opponents of Christ?

    Oh well I guess the Lord’s people will just have to take care of that
    since we are
    Php 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

    night kath

  88. Chris do I remember that you oh scholar could not keep a Bible discussion going over 10 minute?
    then you had to put on your
    American gigolo actress to make up the void that is left when you spill out all 10 minutes of your Bible knowledge

  89. another name from Chris

    Why should this community be intimidated, however so minor, by such an illiterate and uncouth individual?

    you are hurting yourself Chris
    I just keep doing good for the “trailer trash” of the area and you keep running me down.

    watch tomorrows callin show at 4:30

  90. You are playing an evil little game, Johnny, and I should do to you just what you did to me in the beginning-ignore you, because your words are not from God, your agenda is not from God-your TV show is only a selfish endeavor, which is not meant to glorify God.

    And, Chris-I understand where you are coming from-but I don’t think we should laugh at him; for we will also reap what we sow-just as they will…ultimately, all of the dark things will have to be brought out into the light, and they WILL have to answer for their actions-as we all will.

  91. i really didnt need anything for our broadcast but you do have to admit that Chris really puts out some stuff to demonstrate to our listening base that there are some really “angry” folk out there.

    He allowed people to threaten the host of Roarke Media on his site

    LOVE LOVE LOVE

    Ac 4:16 Saying, What shall we do to these men? for that indeed a notable miracle hath been done by them is manifest to all them that dwell in Jerusalem; and we cannot deny it.
    17 But that it spread no further among the people, let us straitly threaten them, that they speak henceforth to no man in this name.

    in the NT who used threatenings?
    is that a tool of Christ or Satan

  92. 1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
    22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
    23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he (THREATENED)threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

    is not that darkness Chris
    Nathan?
    are you going to let THREATENER stay on here

  93. why don’t you address any of the statements chris
    “shut down”
    “dark place”
    i think u said u got in a “dark place” by spending toooo much time with God?

  94. here it is…
    Chris on confession
    dark from Light Wow!

    Long story short; my personal life has become a shamble. I have hurt a lot of people. Including those closest to me. I was so busy fighting the big battles, that I neglected to fight the ones that matter most. I became so engaged in trying to serve God, that I forgot how to seek God. (SEEKING GOD?)

    It has cost me more than I have every lost in my life.I am now in a very dark place. (DARK PLACE?)

    The darkest that I have ever been in. I can’t run from that. I can’t go into another room and pretend that it is not there. I must own up to it. I have destroyed a lot of peoples belief and trust in me. And I would do anything to get it back. I don’t know if that is possible. The only thing that I know to do, all that is left to me, is to come before God as a broken and humilated man, ask Him for mercy and grace, and pray that He will guide in rebuilding my life.

  95. Can’t stay long. Johnny I answered the questions asked to me, now why can’t you or word answer to how these verses apply in your life?

    “knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.”

    “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast.”

  96. Augustine or Thomas Aquinas Knight have any advice for us on
    getting into dark from being with the light

    i think it goes like this

    if the light that is in you be darkness HOW GREAT IS THAT DARKNESS…

    so Knight shift Chris Lord of Great Darkness
    is this a Star Wars episode?

  97. did you now?

    I never said i was a scholar Chris… I am just “T Trash” doing the best I can

    2Co 11:6 But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things.

  98. are we writing our dissertation are chatting Chris?
    is that all u can work on
    are we back to spelling and the like
    I thought Nathan and Randy addressed this already

    we have to have our English teacher before we can log in to your brain

    why not correct some of those that post against me

  99. On November 5, 2008 at 4:10 pm Chris Knight Said:

    Anyone else spot the irony?

    Yes you have to understand he does this on purpose in the hopes of drawing a reaction and getting people angry. The best thing you can do is not allow him to spring the trap and actually I laugh when I read his juvenile attempts to provoke people. It is very funny in a twisted sort of way. In my youth I used to watch Monty Python and JR reminds me of the argument room. A classic scene that degenerates into a yes it is, no it isn’t level of argument for the sake of arguing.

    Anytime I see him do his thing I recall that scene and that is the real irony of his provoking people. Do not allow him to anger you and he has no power, just like Satan has no power unless he can trap you into stumbling and falling into sin.

  100. On November 5, 2008 at 3:53 pm Johnny Said:

    tonite we show the upcoming discussion with the false teacher “REV” Motley
    also some footage from the Atheist upcoming discussion

    Two pawns in your game to be sacrificed for your glory JR?

    the atheist says he is skeptical because of all the different kinds of religions parading around claiming to be of Jesus but refusing to agree on the doctrine Jesus gave us to UNIFY

    Based on your ability to alter and spin the truth, we really don’t know when to believe anything you post JR. For all we know he may have hardened his stance based on knowing you and James.

    Certainly your claim that Larry’s mentor or hero’s statemetents about God is driven by denominational churches is totally false and is in fact documented in the Bible, he just simple does not understand why God did what he did when he did it. But his statements are in fact in the Bible of God calling for the destruction of entire cities.

  101. randy wouldnt answer my question, so anyone else?
    ill restate…. who was in control when there was speaking in tongues?
    lee

  102. Okay, Chris and Johnny,

    Both of you STOP IT. I just came back on after being a few hours away to find you two back to the petty bickering. THIS IS NOT YOUR PLAYGROUND for you two to act like that here. Chris has a perfectly good blog, and JR has a perfectly good live call in talk show. If you want to squabble, do it on your own turf, not mine. It’s not interesting, it’s not edifying, it’s not mature, it’s not civil, and mostly – it’s not Christlike.

    So – No more. NO MORE. We don’t need that sort of thing here, and I didn’t miss it one iota over the last several weeks.

    Capish?

  103. Ok, Johnny, you cut my extended leave short. I do not live in the Double Wide any longer, but live in something even smaller now. Does that make me poor white trash, or trailer trash? I could go in dept like most people and get something larger, but I choose not too. Not that it matters, but I probably have more money in stock than most on here have in their bank accounts, but I just don’t see a need to live above what is necessary. Ok, nuff bout that.

    I don’t think Johnny is “trying” to make people slip, but merely showing them for what they are – or what he thinks they are…sure, he may turn the heat up or say things, but so did Jesus. Least, I hope that is Johnny’s purpose for pushing peoples buttons. I know it looks like he is after show material sometimes and I will admit it appears to be the case, but I am not sure.

    Anyways, that’s my 2cents worth…back to my small house, I go. 🙂

    Here’s something for everyone to chew on: There are over 100 references to baptism in the New Testament – how many are referring to water, how many are not? Once you figure that out, explain why some do not refer to water. Example: Does Gal. 3:27 refer to water? How about Col. 2:12 ? How about Rom. 6:3-4 ?

  104. Interesting I was going to research this since JR had quoted 106 in the bible to see how many he had included that were not about water.

  105. I don’t think Johnny is “trying” to make people slip, but merely showing them for what they are – or what he thinks they are…sure, he may turn the heat up or say things, but so did Jesus.

    I don’t believe Jesus tried to provoke people to stumble, I believe Jesus spoke to people and tried to bring the good out in them not the bad. Johnny Robertson is nothing like Jesus.

  106. 2 Corinthians 4:2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

    Funny I guess the above passage is not in the CoC Bible, instead it was replaced with trickery and spying in the old testament that was not authorized for use against fellow believers!

  107. Johnny’s voice on the recording when that man said a curse word showed he was gloating in the fact that he had made that man stumble, that shows that Johnny does try to make people stumble.

  108. What’s the difference in those who were baptized unto Moses and those baptized into Christ? Do both refer to water? Or do both refer to identification? Or does one refer to identification and the other water? Jesus said he had a baptism to undergo, referring to the cross – His suffering.

    Admittedly, the word can mean other than water…my guess is we should let the context first reveal the meaning of baptism and secondly we should keep in mind that there is ONE baptism today – and it seems to me the ONE is the same ONE Jesus commissioned to the end of the world…was this water baptism Jesus spoke of?? Peter sure thought so…as did others.

    I will also admit that passages like Gal. 3:27 , Col. 2:11-12 seem to be focused upon identification such as Paul used when talking about being baptized unto Moses. The question is how is one identified with Christ? This takes me back to Peter and it seems upon faithful obedience to the gospel that they were added to the body when baptized in water…being then identified with Christ.

    One could argue that baptism unto Moses referred to them escaping through the parted sea. And note that they were not saved while merely believing Moses, but saved after they went through the water…and out the other side…just a thought

  109. John the Baptist spoke about two baptisms, water and the Holy Spirit, and John the Baptist said that he only baptized with water, but that Jesus would baptize us with the Holy Spirit. And the Bible also shows Jesus saved who was not baptized and also people who were saved who had not been baptized. The one baptism that saves us is the baptism of the Holy Spirit not water.

  110. Does the man always curse, or does it take Johnny to make him mad enough to swear? I understand what you are saying TRUTH, but I cant honestly say Johnny set outs to make people sin. He does seem to try to push peoples buttons, but Im not sure what makes him do that…he can better answer that…well, I will o for awhile and let you guys fiqure this stuff out…later

  111. The Bible shows that Jesus saved the thief on the cross who was not baptized and others also who had not been baptized yet. It’s in the Bible and that is Gods word.

  112. “…that shows that (HE WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED) does try to make people stumble.”

    It can work the other way around too, Truth 😉

    (walks away, whistling, with a cryptic knowing smile on his face)

  113. Sure does Chris not only is he making others stumble but he is stumbling in sin himself trying to cause others to.

  114. Johnny still hasn’t answered mine or lee’s question nor showed where in the Bible it says that someone is condemned if they aren’t baptized as Rick asked.

  115. Yes Truth he clearly showed during that program that not only would be falsely claim to use taping as a defense against what others say about him but he proves his statement false in the same program by showing the glee in his voice over catching another in sin.

    Lat time I checked I thought I was supposed to restore those who fall in sin, not celebrate their falling or broadcast it to nonbelievers. Ah but I forget it is not enough to profess Christ as Lord you also must submit to the CoC denominational doctrine.

    Mark 16:16 He who believes and is baptized while in the CoC church will be saved, all others will not.

    That is in effect how the verse should read to be correct under CoC doctrines.

    Food served to Idols, Jewish Council sent a letter for gentiles to avoid it, Paul teaches them that food does not matter, under CoC unity pratices whom should we consider defellowshipped and a false teacher? Peter or Paul??

  116. Questions asked Johnny has yet to answer:

    1. Where in the Bible does it say someone is condemned if they are not baptized?

    2. Who was in control when speaking in tongues, the Spirit or the person?

    3. How do these verses apply in your life?

    “knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.”

    “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast.”

    4. Food served to Idols, Jewish Council sent a letter for gentiles to avoid it, Paul teaches them that food does not matter, under CoC unity pratices whom should we consider defellowshipped and a false teacher? Peter or Paul??

  117. Add to that how does Peter include saved in the Angels message when the Angel did not say those words in Acts 10? If if Peter assumed salvation how is it that Cornelius’ prayers were heard when he was not a member of the CoC or saved?

  118. someone on here said;

    I don’t believe Jesus tried to provoke people to stumble, I believe Jesus spoke to people and tried to bring the good out in them not the bad. Johnny Robertson is nothing like Jesus.

    do you think Jesus did know what he was doing here or he did not know ?
    I say he planned to show that they did not really respect authority

    Mt 21:23 ¶ And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?
    24 And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.
    25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
    26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.
    27 And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.

    it is my task to demonstrate that these folk in denoms are snakes blind fools & such

    Mt 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
    16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

    why
    stay tuned

  119. Joh 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
    23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

    Jesus came to separate light and dark

    I am doing the same so the lowly burdened around here can find truth and get out of all this man made darkness

    you all railing on me just makes me try harder

    I now do 3 and one half hours a week tv where i was doing 2
    extra tent meeting last month
    12 hours extra tv last two weeks
    2 debates this month
    extra training class per week

    just keep railing because It proves I am making head way

    light is getting in

    no ill will just
    determination

    thanks for the complement Chris

  120. On November 6, 2008 at 9:41 am Truth Said:

    John the Baptist spoke about two baptisms, water and the Holy Spirit, and John the Baptist said that he only baptized with water, but that Jesus would baptize us with the Holy Spirit. And the Bible also shows Jesus saved who was not baptized and also people who were saved who had not been baptized. The one baptism that saves us is the baptism of the Holy Spirit not water.

    actually John speaks of 3 baptism
    please have another look

    Lee wants the fire I expect?

  121. bye the way
    on the how Jesus followers saw their role towards enemies of the cross

    see Paul
    Ac 13:6 And when they had gone through the isle unto Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew, whose name was Barjesus:
    7 Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God.
    8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.
    9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,
    10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
    11 And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.

    if the power was available I would have let Chris search around for someone (the homeless man) to lead him when he came up to the TV station

    not really Chris

    you are nearly as bad as guys like rick and Jackie Poe
    lackey and the chief faker RJ Barber

  122. And lets add the question of when Paul got married? No wait he did not marry so we have Paul who appointed Elders and taught disqualified to be an elder, hmmmmm could it be the husband of one wife was there to keep someone from having multiple wives and try and serve, meaning be married to more then one wife at the same time?

    As for Marriage tonight, based on CoC teaching you are better off to go and kill your ex spouse and then ask for forgiveness of the sin then allow them to live and be married since you go to hell for being married a second time. I can go to heaven for murdering my spouse but I go to hell for leaving her and marring another woman.

    Now if you can divorce only for fornication and you marry and have sex with your new spouse and thus commit adultery towards your first wife are you not fulfilling the grounds for legitimate divorce? And since you have committed fornication with your new wife and satisfied the conditions for divorce, how are you still in sin after the first act since the conditions for a legal divorce are satisfied?

    It seems to be a circular argument, and finally since you are required under CoC doctrine to leave your second marriage and divorce them are you not again in sin for divorcing since there is nothing in the Bible about leaving the second spouse and returning to the first?

    Truth yes it is shocking surely he just missed the questions, after all he has to give an answer!

  123. In the year since this blog has been active, rarely have hypercons actually engaged in real discussion. We have had many driveby postings, but usually not real conversation (with the exception of Corey a while back).

    Speaking of our one year birthday, our TV friend took the time to post several items, but didn’t congratulate us even just a little bit. How disappointing. 😦

  124. Johnny said, “you are nearly as bad as guys like rick and Jackie Poe lackey and the chief faker RJ Barber”.

    I suppose I’m bad because I pointed out that the Holy Word declares that if you do not believe you are condemned but is silent when it comes to proclaiming that lack of baptism brings condemnation. Not to mention the fact that the Scriptures do not express or imply that you must believe in the salvation of baptism in order to be saved.

    Whatever happened to “silent where the Bible is silent”?

  125. “it is my task to demonstrate that these folk in denoms are snakes blind fools & such”

    If only it was not Johnny’s task to label and condemn everyone else, but actually DO what Jesus has called us to-which is love people and share His light with them…but instead he readily admits that is not his agenda or on his radar. It is ironic enough that he is the blind one.

    And, Randy-from all outside appearances he is trying on purpose to get people to stumble, so he can use it against them. Don’t mean to be blunt, but if you were really honest-you would see that, but you seem to want to cater to them a lot more lately-not quite sure why. Even if you agree with some of his stances-I cannot understand how in the world you can justify his tactics.

  126. Hey Katherine.

    I honestly don’t know if Johnny uses the tactics you speak of to make people sin. I will admit it looks that way and I do know he has told another ( ex )church of Christ preacher to “provoke people”. I sure hope he isn’t doing this in an attempt to cause someone to sin. He cen better answer these charges than I

  127. We know what he is doing and why he is doing it.

    Maybe this will be of some solace, if such a thing can be said…

    What The Illiterate One does on television, is at best a fleeting memory in the minds of a very tiny percentage of humanity.

    What is documented of him here, and elsewhere across the Internet, and his own words that he has provided to newspapers and the like, will last indefinitely and be accessible to anyone. Posterity will be free to judge him as it sees fit.

    He damns himself. With every ridiculous action or course utterance, he leaves behind more a legacy that those who will come after us will be able to find… and deem him a man of low character and no Christ-like virtue at all.

    His eventual passing will leave the world no poorer. But that is his choice. I would say it is a pity, were it not for his vehemence.

  128. I personally would like to see a CoC teaching on gossip and how God feels about it, I think it would be very entertaining to see how many hoops are jumped through to justify gossip on TV and call it Christ centered!

  129. Why don’t you try to help Johnny answer the questions we asked and have yet got any answer, I do believe some of them were to you also Randy. And besides in that verse you left out the part where it says that baptism DOES NOT take away sins.

  130. Here it is:

    “The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ”

    Gods word tells us that baptism does not take away sins but that baptism is an act of a good conscience.

  131. On November 6, 2008 at 11:32 pm Rick Said:
    Whatever happened to “silent where the Bible is silent”?

    Ricodemas,
    Where does the bible mention the baptist church?

  132. The Bible also tells us:

    There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.

  133. What does this say will happen to those who obey not the gospel of Christ?

    2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

    What does this say the gospel of Christ is?

    1Co 15:1 ¶ Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
    2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
    3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
    4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    How that Christ died, was buried, and rose again.

    How do you obey that?

    3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
    4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

    Rick, do you bury people that are alive or dead?

    1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

    Do you baptize a saved person or one that is dead to sin?

  134. Looks like it’s all on you Johnny to answer the questions, doesn’t seem like Randy or word can answer them for you.

  135. Truth,
    “Word” demonstrates who the cult’s true god is.

    It is “Obedience”.

    It is a god that can never be satiated.

    And logically, ALL are condemned to Hell by their god, because it is IMPOSSIBLE for us, in this life and in this flesh, to be perfect enough.

    Why they cannot realize this, I have no idea.

  136. It seems that neither Word nor Johnny are interested in answering actual questions. The majority of their posts are a mix of angry rants and random Bible verses.

    Word,

    Please give an example of a “scriptural” CoC that was in existence anywhere in the world post 1st cen. A.D. and Pre – 18th cen. America. (You cannot dodge this forever)

    Johnny,

    Honestly, I only understand about 5% of what you are saying. Please calm down and attempt to convey your thoughts in a manner that can be somewhat understandable. I am not trying to be rude, but you are simply not communicating in English most of the time.

    Here are some questions for you as well,

    How can you use the Bible when it was formed by persons you would consider to be non-Christians? (i.e Orthodox and Catholic Priests) Did God have a hand in deciding what books made it into the Bible? If so, why didn’t he utilize the CoC to do so?

    Do you sing songs during worship that were written by non-CoC members? If so, how can God accept praise from people you consider to be non-Christians? Is it still a Christian Hymn?

  137. Truth, you went where I wanted you to go – now study about a good conscience.

    “The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ”

    This verse plainly states baptism does also now save us – then Peter says that he isnt referring to the act of washing the dirt from the skin – but says baptism cleans the conscience – how? – by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Now do a study on a good conscience.

  138. We have a good consience when we accept that the grace of God is what saves us, not anything we can do physically, and that it is only God who can forgive us for our sins and that His power within us can give us the strength to change. We try to do as God commands, such as being baptized to show our love and gratefulness that He saved us and that we are striving to be like that of Christ.

  139. filth of the flesh doesn’t mean taking a bath, but taking away the sins of the flesh. And only God can take away the filth of the flesh, sin.

  140. Why don’t you at least answer the question, where in the Bible does God say He will condemn us if we are not baptized.

  141. And the fact that the Bible tells about people who were saved and not baptized with water, I don’t see why you can’t accept that Jesus still loves us the same today as when He died on the cross.

  142. It is really right funny that you would think that anyone would even think that being baptized is nothing more than taking a bath. Do you really think that the people Peter baptized said, I needed a bath anyway.

  143. “Word said, Do you baptize a saved person or one that is dead to sin?”

    Hmm..most people I baptize are already saved.

  144. On November 7, 2008 at 8:20 pm Rick Said:

    “Word said, Do you baptize a saved person or one that is dead to sin?”

    Hmm..most people I baptize are already saved.

    That would be because they have neither killed Christ with the help of wicked men or were practicing Jews.

    Acts 2:22″Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23This man was handed over to you by God’s set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.

    Acts 2:36″Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

    Limited target proclaimed by Peter is it not? How many Gentiles were saved that day?

  145. Word you did a good job redirecting the conversation away from the questions that were asked.

    So why won’t you answer simple questions? Surely your doctrine can handle it since it is the original xerox version can’t it?

  146. On November 6, 2008 at 10:08 pm Truth Said:

    Notice Johnny never answered any of the questions listed.

    i have been on here a year and I answer and you all change the subject dodge around and I feel like i can do the same

  147. On November 6, 2008 at 11:01 pm walkinginlove Said:

    And lets add the question of when Paul got married? No wait he did not marry so we have Paul who appointed Elders and taught disqualified to be an elder, hmmmmm could it be the husband of one wife was there to keep someone from having multiple wives and try and serve, meaning be married to more then one wife at the same time?

    TALK ABOUT UNLEARNED

    Paul was an Apostle
    he would not be a pastor
    1Tim 3:1-6

    His fellow Apostle who was married (Peter) was later a pastor 1Pet 5:1-5

    Jesus was not married either
    he was not a physical shepherd either

    one qualification to shepherd a congregation is you have to have a house rule experience

    get with it guys

    even your own manuals spell this stuff out

  148. On November 6, 2008 at 11:32 pm Rick Said:

    Johnny said, “you are nearly as bad as guys like rick and Jackie Poe lackey and the chief faker RJ Barber”.

    I suppose I’m bad because I pointed out that the Holy Word declares that if you do not believe you are condemned but is silent when it comes to proclaiming that lack of baptism brings condemnation. Not to mention the fact that the Scriptures do not express or imply that you must believe in the salvation of baptism in order to be saved.

    Whatever happened to “silent where the Bible is silent”?

    Rick why dont you brave up and get out in public with this

    you guys in the Baptist faith are the biggest bunch of cowards I have seen
    I have spoke to one this morning who had all kind of behind my back stuff to say but when I called him he was just like u rick
    trembling!
    pathetic

    call the law or son-in-law
    did you think we came to fight when i came to ur house rick
    why did ur son-in-law come speeding up?

  149. On November 6, 2008 at 11:01 pm walkinginlove Said:..

    … and finally since you are required under CoC doctrine to leave your second marriage and divorce them are you not again in sin for divorcing since there is nothing in the Bible about leaving the second spouse and returning to the first?

    “second marriage”
    who married u
    you are not married in God’s eyes
    will he “join” u into an adulterous union?
    please
    all u have is paper
    the “second” is just result of some Godless judge or preacher saying “do u” and u saying “I do”
    u r not married
    your bed in not the marriage bed it is the defiled bed
    Heb 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

    silly

  150. if what u say on marriage is true

    if Lee was going to leave his wife and kids for another woman… and his wife called “Walking in love” what would she hear

    she would hear “Mrs Lee, you need to just be still…” God is a loving God and he will forgive Lee if he goes out on you with another woman.
    Lee will be able to be the daddy of some other kids as well as these with you and thereby spread himself around to more usefulness.
    God will forgive him.

    Now if she calls me I will council Lee to realize that he is about to make a fatal mistake. He can never remarry with God’s approval because Mrs Lee is a faithful loving wife and he vowed to remain faithful to her until death. God joined the unin in heaven Matt 19:6 and says “let no man put asunder” what he joined. If you try you will go to hell.

    who is responsible for all the divorces in this country me or Walking n love?
    you be the judge

  151. all names in my stories are fictional
    any resemblance to other fictional characters on this site are purely coincidence

  152. Word said to Rick, “Ricodemas,
    Where does the bible mention the baptist church?”

    Wordless thanks for the laugh. Of course, I am sure that you know that the English noun church is not a correct translation of the Greek noun ekklêsia as you seem to insist. The originial Greek New Testament doesn’t mention the Baptist church and neither does it mention the churches of Christ…so what shall we do oh my!!

  153. On November 7, 2008 at 6:41 pm Truth Said:
    Randy, Now how about the questions we have asked? Or can you not answer?

    – honesty TRUTH, your questions I have seen arent hard to answer, but the reason I havent is bcause I havent been checking here that much lately.

    Far as baptism – Peter said it DOES also save us and he was talking about water baptism – why use the flood of Noah and then say “the like fiqure”…even baptism also now saves us.

    Notice the phrases, “baptism, which now saves you”, and “it (“it” refers to baptism) saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.” First Peter tells us baptism saves us. Then he not only restates this, but also tells us how and why baptism saves us. It saves us by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    Peter tells us that the story of Noah and the ark is an illustration of how God saves through water. In the days of Noah, God looked down on the earth and was grieved at all the evil he saw upon the world (Genesis 6). God used the waters of the flood to wipe out the old and bring about a new beginning. God “wiped the slate clean” and started all over again.

    Peter said, “The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ” (I Peter 3:21). Baptism is the antitype of the flood. The Revised Standard Version of the Bible reads, “Baptism which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

    Baptism is not a value because of washing dirt from the body.

    It is an appeal to God for a good or clear conscience. Jesus said, “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned” (Mark 16:16). One who believes and obeys the commands of Christ will have a good conscience.

    Men teach that baptism does NOT now save, but Peter taught that baptism does “NOW save.”

    TRUTH, you can believe Peter or not, I have no more to say on this matter.

  154. On November 8, 2008 at 2:25 pm Rick Said:
    The originial Greek New Testament doesn’t mention the Baptist church and neither does it mention the churches of Christ…so what shall we do oh my!!

    So Rick,
    Whose church did Jesus say He would build?

    Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    Ro 16:16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

    The churches of Christ have ears unlike your church Rick.

    Ac 11:22 Then tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas, that he should go as far as Antioch.

    Mt 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

  155. I wish this whole controversy/argument over “your church is wrong-my church is right” would just cease, because none of us are right. Good question, “word”-whose church DID Jesus say He would build? HIS church, but you guys have made that into something completely different. Just because you slap the name “church of Christ” on a sign outside your building and THINK that all of the doctrines you have created by man that somehow you are the ONE true and only church which Jesus spoke of when He talked about the rock where He would build His Church…does not mean it is so. You have deceived yourselves, and unfortunately many others with your dishonesty and unwillingness to look at the entire picture of the Bible-instead only picking out pieces you like to please what your pre-conceived doctrine believes, all the while playing God-condemning, belittling, and knocking down other followers of Christ because they don’t believe just like you. It is an utter shame, a mockery of what God did by sending His one and only Son to die on the cross for ALL of our sins, because of His great LOVE for us-that He sent His son to save, and not condemn (John 3:16-17), but somehow, someway…His beautiful message of love, grace, and redemption have been misconstrued and distorted by men who have come before you-and now you choose to carry on that legacy by also judging and condemning others, taunting people, calling people out on TV and hassling them in their own churches. Where do you even get that right? If you think you are anything like Jesus-think again. If you think you are fighting evil by doing this-think again…you are actually only contributing to the cause and satan loves it because it is dividing God’s people over things God never made issues. I wish you could look deep deep into your heart, and see this-but I am afraid Johnny has you under some kind of spell, and out of fear or sheer blindness-you can’t see the truth. I truly pray one day you can, and way before it is too late, and you end up like Daniel Sommers and others who have followed-late in life lamenting all of the damage they caused to the body of Christ, and all of the time they wasted attacking their OWN brothers and sisters who God Himself has accepted and calls all of us to unite around His name. After all, we need to be in this spiritual battle TOGETHER, not tearing each other apart when there are already too many enemies in the world waiting to seek and devour. I pray you WAKE UP very soon and recognize this truth.

  156. johnnnnnnnnnnnn,
    thank you for mentioning me in your fictional
    story………………so nice to be remembered.
    lee

  157. Katherine,
    Amen to everything that you said.

    The Illiterate One and his cult are ecclesiastical bullies.

    They do not put their faith in Christ at all.

    They put their faith in the sign outside their congregation that happens to say “Church of Christ”.

    What saves us: the finished work on the wooden cross, or the painted words on a wooden sign?

  158. Act 2:4 And2532 they were all537 filled4130 with the Holy40 Ghost,4151 and2532 began756 to speak2980 with other2087 tongues,1100 as2531 the3588 Spirit4151 gave1325 them846 utterance.669

    so……since no one wants to help me on my journey,
    ill start on my own.
    it would seem to indicate that in order for the
    people to speak the holy ghost would have to prompt
    them first……for lack of a better way to say it.
    now john says that this event was to show the power of god to unbelievers. in other scripture something different happened when believers spoke in tongues.
    now why would the holy ghost give utterance to those in the church when he would know in advance that there would not be anyone there who could interpret?
    let two or three speak and if no one can interpret
    be quiet.
    so it was not always for others to hear but sometimes for the one speaking………..i know you fine folks
    dont think god makes mistakes………right?
    I WOULD THAT YOU ALL SPOKE WITH TONGUES>>>>PAUL
    john,randy,rick,anyone else this shoe fits……..
    you dont know jack about this subject……..and no i dont care if you did grow up around it.
    i dont care if you think all pentacostals bark at the moon and roll on the floor.
    oh yea…. and if some holiness person treated you bad along the way….well me too. whaaaaaaa….. man up.
    what god chooses to give i cannot refuse.
    praise god

  159. Randy, if you have no more to say on this matter that will be fine with me, and your the one who would bring it up in the first place alot of times when we have moved on to something else. I thought it was getting choked to death alot of times anyway and that neither of us were gaining ground at all about it. I replied a lot of times because I am just as passionate about what I believe as you are, for reasons that are between me and God that you do not know. And I will not give up what I believe He has done for me for anyone.

    God bless
    Truth

  160. On August 15, 2008 at 4:18 pm Johnny Said:

    Lee
    I will never reference your wife in any conversation
    we can change it around and it was my wife

    now was my point true?

    On November 8, 2008 at 11:55 am johnny Said:

    if what u say on marriage is true

    if Lee was going to leave his wife and kids for another woman… and his wife called “Walking in love” what would she hear

    she would hear “Mrs Lee, you need to just be still…” God is a loving God and he will forgive Lee if he goes out on you with another woman.
    Lee will be able to be the daddy of some other kids as well as these with you and thereby spread himself around to more usefulness.
    God will forgive him.

    Now if she calls me I will council Lee to realize that he is about to make a fatal mistake. He can never remarry with God’s approval because Mrs Lee is a faithful loving wife and he vowed to remain faithful to her until death. God joined the unin in heaven Matt 19:6 and says “let no man put asunder” what he joined. If you try you will go to hell.

    who is responsible for all the divorces in this country me or Walking n love?
    you be the judge

    now my question to you all…….
    is john a liar?
    lee

  161. Seems Johnny can lie to lee and still talk about lee’s wife, but can’t man up and answer any of the questions we asked.

  162. It used to be in this land that if someone were to speak ill of another man’s wife, that man would shoot the offending person dead in the street and the local constabulary would write it off as “justifiable homicide”.

    There are at least two instances on the books that I know of just such a thing happening.

    I’m only sayin’, is all…

    The point being: there are some things which in honorable conversation, should be off-limits. At least among decent folk.

    We are decent folk here, aren’t we?

  163. this is the second time in this book that Chris has brought up guns
    are u itching to go gunning Chrissy

    Folks I said it was a fictional story
    can i not pick random names

    johnny is used for everything from songs to portable pots… do u hear me crying foul every time someone says johnny come lately

    talk about babies

    chris can gun us down but if i use a fictional character let us call indecency police chris to arrest me

    did i really mention anyone’s wife
    is there a real Lee on here
    there is some character who goes by aka ? maybe or not who claims to call up on my show and thinks he is answering me
    but is he Lee?

    please boys
    if it makes you happy I will change the names

    replace Lee with Chris
    he already said this is a shooting offense so…

    chris is purely fictional by the way… in my story at least

    why didnt anyone answer the story

    everything went to lee… he mentioned leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
    what about the storyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

  164. and to the real lee you can respond in an unknown tongue so we dont have to listen to yur blabber

    is that all you pentecostals think Christianity is

    i speak in tongues ya’ll look at me uugoo gotcha meme ouw sounds like you are mad to me 1Cor 14:23

    isn’t that the very thing Paul was speaking against
    you forgot the rest of the verse
    1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

  165. rick
    dont you all get tired of the old line
    the greek doesnt mean that

    the greek doesnt mean “for” in act 2:38 but no translator has evr been willing to correct it since it was translated into English
    and there are plenty of Baptist publishing houses

    AC Smith then says well “the letter to Ephesus is not really to Ephesus” when we ask him to explain
    why the “saved by grace only faith only” Ephesians were actually baptized twice (Act 19:1-6)

    Then they say oh Mk 16:really ends at verse 9
    and 1Joh 5:8 is not really in the bible
    and oh the water in Joh 3:5 should be translated “amniotic fluid” which would then read John came baptizing with amniotic fluid and Lee wants the fire baptism since this fluid dosen’t count

    you folks should star in a movie that chris films

    i will bet that charles will give chris 20 more minutes for it to air

    we can call it space cadets

    nathan can be the ghost writer

    btw this is all fictional less chris guns us down for mentioning him

    kath i didnt read ur post above either so that is why i didnt mention u arent you glad?

    listen folks …if you arent going to be serious excuse us if we treat you like Jesus treated the false teachers of his day

    “fools and blind” i think he said

  166. chris why have u not told us why u really put up that stuff about your black place

    u just came back from the dead and nothing?

    back to LOST episode commentary?

    do u really think people need you (Dan Rather) to tell them what happened on a show they can watch

    hello
    btw chris how is what you do bringing glory to …

  167. chris said
    That’s not to make a judgment against Obama’s spiritual condition at all. But because of the spiritual condition of many of his enemies, Barack Obama is now going to be their President.

    They brought this on themselves. And if they have any shred of conscience, the self-proclaimed “Christian leaders” like James Dobson and Pat Roberton and their ilk will stop looking for excuses and already trying to regain power in 2012, and turn their own hearts toward repentance instead. Not for sake of temporal advantage, but purely because they desire God’s will… without trying to bend Him to their wishes.

    did you cuss in that episode chris

    are u judging

    nathan have u read this guys site that you have up as a link

    oh well anything goes as long as u hate johnny james and the not in the Bible church of Christ Rom 16:16

  168. and all this from a person just back from “a dark place” wow!
    shouldnt you do some penance there chris before u become the nations spiritual guru ????????????

    Dark Place?

    Garth Marenghi’s Darkplace tells of the adventures of Dr. Rick Dagless, MD, as he fights the forces of darkness while simultaneously coping with the pressures of running a modern hospital. In spite of the programme’s obvious flaws — wooden acting, cringeworthy scripts and amazingly poor special effects, to name but three — both Marenghi and Learner still regard the series as a masterpiece. However, few seem to share this sentiment, which is likely why it’s taken nearly 20 years to reach the screen.

    when I read it I was sad thennnnnnnnnnnnnn i said this is chris
    I thought it must be a hoax

  169. john says A C Smith is a liar for exagerating how
    many scriptures are in the bible on a certain topic.
    john lies and i show it to him and he uses that little caviat that he put up in anouther post as his defense.
    liar liar pants on…………well you know.
    the difference between saul and david when they were
    confronted with their sin…..one repented and one blamed others.
    now stop, drop, and roll.
    not holy roll.
    lee

  170. Let’s ask our studio audience…

    Folks, if you did not know any better, would you be led to conclude that the above mad babbling and insane ravings were the words of a minister who was the leader of a congregation?

    What would you think of someone who let loose such a torrent of incomprehensible gibberish?

    What would you think of the people who follow him as the members of his “church”?

    If you were such a “church” member, would you not also feel as though your intelligence was insulted by having such a man claim to be over you? Would or would not his actions make you ashamed to be associated with him?

    More and more, he condemns himself. And betrays that he does not know Christ at all.

  171. all of of the bible experts go to church today?
    answer then why people would speak in tongues with no interpreter present.
    did the holy ghost prompt them or not?……….
    the bible makes provisions for it.
    john says that is evidence that people are not really
    speaking in tongues when no one interprets.
    thats not what the bible says…….is it?
    lee

  172. Last night was angry viewer night, it seems. Wish people wouldn’t call in just to heckle – it just encourages the host of the program.

  173. Lee, today, many speak at once, not one at a time, Some places they have no interpretation, In most of yalls meetings there is great confusion. Seldom, if ever, are Jews present.

    – the whole movement is selfishly seeking a personal experience.

    In Acts 2, 10, 19, the display of the gift of tongues was a sign for Jews present (see Is. 28:11-17).

    In Acts, those who were filled (controlled by) with the Holy Spirit were faithful witnesses for Jesus Christ.

    They did not tell of their emotional experience they only spoke of the Living Christ who had saved them.
    The key passage on the Spirit filled life in the epistles is Eph. 4:20 – 6:20. Paul does not list tongues as a result of being filled with the Spirit.

    No where in the epistles are we commanded to speak in tongues. I Cor. 12-14 was not written to encourage tongues but it was written to correct the abuse and misuse of the gift of tongues. Speaking in tongues at Corinth was not a sign of spirituality but of carnality (see I Cor. 3:1-3). It caused division, discord, pride, strife and self-seeking. It is causing the same problems today.

    The tongues movement is uniting people (many are unbelievers & even false teachers) on the basis of love and emotional experiences. II John 7-11 forbids us to unite with anyone who does not hold to the clear teachings of the Bible. See also Gal. 1:6-10; Matt. 7:13-23.

    God is not the author of confusion but this movement is causing confusion all over the world.

  174. 2 Corinthians 4:2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

    Hey JR can you explain how you practice the above passage while using the tactics you profess to use in one of your broadcasts?

    And while I do not know the details of your arrest and prosecution with a firearm, have you really changed any since your adoption of CoC doctrine? It appears to me after listening to your broadcast last night and your comments here where you are trying to wound others is simply the same person unchanged with a new weapon, you put down your gun and picked up a Bible. Both serve the same purpose, to force others to do as you wish.

    Where are the fruits you are supposed to exhibit from a changed heart? All I see is you using examples of Jesus interactions with the pharisees to interact with regular people. Jesus was in charge and above those he ridiculed for being blind etc. You on the other hand are on the same level of authority as those you abuse. You also quote Paul’s judgments as your own, yet I do not see you being addressed as Apostle Johnny, and where is the direct conversation with God that Paul has in your life through the Holy Spirit? Substituting your view of the Bible and calling it the original doctrine that was handed down from Acts as the Holy Spirit is not the same as the Holy Spirit directly speaking truth to you. So Paul judged while having that direct contact with God where he did not have to interpret what was said to him but repeat it.

    So how is it that you are using those verses out of context and elevating yourself to the level of an Apostle and our savior while dealing with others?

    It would appear that you have elevated yourself or are again using verses out of context to defend your actions. Using God’s Word to defend yourself so you do not have to grow and change and improve are very different then allowing the word to cut things away.

    What was the last new thing that God taught you through his word? What was the last new thing that someone else taught you that was not part of your denomination, through God’s word?

    Since God only listens to CoC prayers, when was the last time he actually answered your prayer in your spirit? So that the Holy Spirit was guiding you?

    IF you have not had that happened then your ability to Judge as Paul judged is false.

    Gun or Bible they both can be a weapon to abuse others!

  175. On November 9, 2008 at 5:05 am johnny Said:

    and to the real lee you can respond in an unknown tongue so we dont have to listen to yur blabber

    is that all you pentecostals think Christianity is

    Funny if we substituted race here your comments would be considered racist, as someone who worships in a Pentecostal Church let me say that I do not speak in tongues. So once again JR your have spoken a false statement based on your bias, How a man can be so wrong so often and yet think he divines God’s word perfectly is amazing. Truly you are the perfect example of a blind guide!

    Love is the greatest gift, Agape love, without it you simple sound like a clanging noise. That explains why so few people really hear what you say JR.

    i speak in tongues ya’ll look at me uugoo gotcha meme ouw sounds like you are mad to me 1Cor 14:23

    isn’t that the very thing Paul was speaking against
    you forgot the rest of the verse
    1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

    He was stressing balance in the truth, not condemning the speaking of Tongues. Tongues are one tool that is given to allow the work of God to continue.

    Tell me JR when Paul was praying with his Spirit and singing with his Spirit what language was he using? Man made or Angelic?

    I find it interesting that you so easily excuse that jibber jabber as being faked yet clearly Paul is not talking about praying in a man made language he does not understand but a Spiritual Language that is of God. Same for singing, how is it that you can call things of the Spirit fake and not be close to Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?

    Would you be also willing to call the language of the Devil also? Since you are so confident that it is fake, if you are right then they who use it will all go to Hell for doing something that was not authorized but if you are wrong and are willing to call it of the devil then you get the same sentence for blasphemy. So are you willing to risk your salvation and call it that?

    What Language was Paul’s spirit speaking in, Chinese, Japanese? Indian, Russian, English?

  176. On November 8, 2008 at 11:39 am johnny Said:

    On November 6, 2008 at 11:01 pm walkinginlove Said:

    And lets add the question of when Paul got married? No wait he did not marry so we have Paul who appointed Elders and taught disqualified to be an elder, hmmmmm could it be the husband of one wife was there to keep someone from having multiple wives and try and serve, meaning be married to more then one wife at the same time?

    TALK ABOUT UNLEARNED

    When John who am I to argue with someone so able on the topic of being unlearned LOL! 😉

    Paul was an Apostle
    he would not be a pastor
    1Tim 3:1-6

    His fellow Apostle who was married (Peter) was later a pastor 1Pet 5:1-5

    JR I am well aware of the married state of both Peter and Paul, I just find it interesting and flat out funny that Paul was able to appoint elders while not qualifying to be one. That just seems strange that someone could appoint a position when he was not qualified to serve in that position. That makes me question your view of the scripture and if the passage in question was there to prevent someone from showing up either divorced or a polygamist with more then one wife and wanting to serve.

    Jesus was not married either
    he was not a physical shepherd either

    He wasn’t married, thank for for that timely statement, I am sure the rest of the planet is relieved to hear the news!

    one qualification to shepherd a congregation is you have to have a house rule experience

    get with it guys

    even your own manuals spell this stuff out

    Last time I checked I didn’t have a manual, except a Bible. 😉

    But I am glad you cleared up Jesus false statements about sheep and him being our Shepard! Of course I am sure there is a Greek word for physical shepherd I am missing! 😉

    So Jesus is not qualified to teach or lead in your church, that explains a great deal about the CoC, thanks JR you made my day LOLOLOLOLOLOL! 😉

  177. Oh please tell everyone we are not physical sheep before some of us run out and get sheared!

    Oh does this mean I should not be looking for false prophets hiding under sheep’s clothing, Pheeew I was struggling with finding out what sheep wore back in those days! 😉

  178. Hey since water always means water and seems to be tied to baptism per last night, does that mean that Jesus was concerned about the bath he was going to have to take when the disciples asked to sit at his right and left hand?

    Mark 10:35Then James and John, the sons of Zebedee, came to him. “Teacher,” they said, “we want you to do for us whatever we ask.”

    36″What do you want me to do for you?” he asked.

    37They replied, “Let one of us sit at your right and the other at your left in your glory.”

    They did not realize they were asking to be crucified with him!

    38″You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said. “Can you drink the cup I drink or be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?”

    Wow since all water leads to baptism and all baptism leads to water, their water must have really been bad for Jesus to say this, or could it be that drinking and baptism were being used figuratively?!

    If so what other times did Jesus speak that way, Perhaps John 3 also qualifies!

  179. I believe its possible that Paul was a widower during his years as a Christian.

    One basis for this conclusion is the way he expressed himself in defending his apostleship when writing to the Corinthians. He pointed out that he had certain right that he had not used. For one thing, he did not accept personal financial assistance from them, even though he had the right to eat at their expense. (1 Cor. 9:4, 11-15) “We have authority to lead about a sister as a wife, even as the rest of the apostles.” (1 Cor. 9:5) He mentioned this while in the process of outlining things he had the right to do but did not do, indicates that he evidently did not have a wife at that time.

    1 Corinthians 7:8: “I say to the unmarried persons and the widows, it is well for them that they remain even as I am.” He had just offered counsel to married persons. Then before going on to other matters involving married Christians, he directed comments to “the unmarried persons and the widows.” The Greek word here translated “unmarried persons” applies to all unmarried persons and can mean bachelors and formerly married persons who were then without living mates. The Greek word translated “widows” definitely means formerly married women. Since Paul recommended his own situation for such ones, it is quite possible that he was a widower himself.

    He also seemed to have insight into marital matters which suggests that he experienced marriage himself. But, he wrote under inspiration, so this is not conclusive proof.

  180. # On November 8, 2008 at 9:38 pm lee Said:

    On August 15, 2008 at 4:18 pm Johnny Said:

    Lee
    I will never reference your wife in any conversation
    we can change it around and it was my wife

    now was my point true?

    On November 8, 2008 at 11:55 am johnny Said:

    if what u say on marriage is true

    if Lee was going to leave his wife and kids for another woman… and his wife called “Walking in love” what would she hear

    she would hear “Mrs Lee, you need to just be still…” God is a loving God and he will forgive Lee if he goes out on you with another woman.
    Lee will be able to be the daddy of some other kids as well as these with you and thereby spread himself around to more usefulness.
    God will forgive him.

    Now if she calls me I will council Lee to realize that he is about to make a fatal mistake. He can never remarry with God’s approval because Mrs Lee is a faithful loving wife and he vowed to remain faithful to her until death. God joined the unin in heaven Matt 19:6 and says “let no man put asunder” what he joined. If you try you will go to hell.

    who is responsible for all the divorces in this country me or Walking n love?
    you be the judge

    now my question to you all…….
    is john a liar?
    lee

    still no answer

  181. On November 9, 2008 at 7:47 pm lee Said:

    all of of the bible experts go to church today?
    answer then why people would speak in tongues with no interpreter present.
    did the holy ghost prompt them or not?……….
    the bible makes provisions for it.
    john says that is evidence that people are not really
    speaking in tongues when no one interprets.
    thats not what the bible says…….is it?
    lee

    still no answer

  182. JR wrote:
    who is responsible for all the divorces in this country me or Walking n love?
    you be the judge

    How about we place the blame on the couple who were married instead of co-depending it off on others. And considering the number of people who have remarried and they will all be required to avoid hell by following your teaching JR, they will all divorce and thus you actually would be more the cause then I would.

    Perhaps instead you should focus on the wife submitting to the husband as unto the Lord and teach the Husband to die to self for his wife. As for me I have not said it was ok to divorce except for fornication, I did point out that under your system that you condemn people to hell, they have a loophole in that system because if both people remarry and consummate the marriage they have in fact committed fornication towards the previous spouse and are no longer under the penalty of your view of the scripture. It is only when one of them stays unmarried after the divorce that the other gets to burn for remarriage.

    Does it please you to know that your father will go to hell JR? And since you appear to not have forgiven your father for his failings, he will have company there if he in fact goes, and if mercy prevails he won’t.

    So based on your teaching to date that i have seen, people who remarry actually have a loophole to escape because they both have committed fornication and thus broken the marriage under the correct rules at that point. And since they both broke the rules they also can be forgiven for that breakage. But if one or the other does not remarry the other goes to hell, except he or she out live their spouse and in that case they are again loopholed out of the penalty because they are allowed to remarry once their spouse dies. Sounds like we are heading towards the good old days of the law! I can be forgiven for murder without raising the dead person but I can’t be forgiven for divorce if the spouse does not remarry. yeah that sounds like wise judgments to me, NOT!

    Lee,

    JR’s real view is that the gifts are dead and died when the Bible was created, that is his real view, he just masks it for some reason, thus anyone speaking with or without an interpreter is lying based on his view of scripture. He misquotes the scripture about the perfect coming, and totally ignores that the term face to face is only used between people and not a person and a thing, in this case the Bible.

    Now the only question is if he will man up to and admit that is his view in fact. If he applies 2 Corinthians 4:2 to his teaching or continues to allow old testament examples of spying to rule instead.

  183. LOL it’s not lying it is spying per the old testament and Paul’s escape maneuver one in Acts 23. 😉

    come clean I bet that is a reference to baptism, to be clean is to wash and to wash needs water, and water means baptism! 😉

  184. Johnny always tries to say that the Bible doesn’t say anything about “feelings” or “emotions”. Johnny could not be so wrong as when he says such a thing as that. The Bible is full of feelings and emotions. It talks about, love-feeling love for another, being cheerful or joyful-feeling happy, pain or suffering-feeling hurt, sorrow-feeling sad, being fearful-feeling afraid, rejoicing-feeling exceedingly glad, compassion-feeling compassion for another, hope-feeling hopeful. And I probably didn’t list all of them.

    As Jesus walked on the earth and when He died on the cross He gave love and mercy to people, and Jesus is the same today as He was yesterday. And as we are following Jesus and His example we should be showing love, mercy and compassion to others and give them the same hope that Jesus gives to us.

    Johnny would defellowship others from the church he attends because they are sinners, and I’ve got news for you Johnny – so are you. Rather than show them the love and mercy that Jesus gives, Johnny says don’t fellowship and allow sinners in church, God may just give them His love, grace and mercy and be able to help them change. But that’s right Johnny doesn’t believe God can just give us grace and mercy.

  185. Youre so wrong on many points. Who ever told you Johnny doesnt allow sinners to visit at Martinsville? That is a falt out lie!

    Far as him talking about feelings – he most likely was referring to the experiences you guys claim you feel from the Holy Spirit when you roll around and things in church.

    Johnny welcome anyone and everyone to come visit with them…Im not sure where you got your info from, but I know firsthand it to be false

  186. Johnny said on his show the other night that they are not ashamed to say that they will defellowship other people.

  187. And you wouldn’t dis-fellowship a Christian, if they were living in sin? I don’t watch them, but my guess is he was referring to Christians who fall prey to sin and refuse to repent. If you have someone at your church and they commit adultery or steal from another brother, and they refuse to repent – would you still fellowship with them, even if they refuse to repent and continue living in the sin of adultery and theft?

  188. Who ever told you Johnny doesnt allow sinners to visit at Martinsville? That is a falt out lie!

    It seems Johnny must have lied to you too since it is his words that tells us that he does and will defellowship other people.

  189. You are confusing things TRUTH. Do you know what he means by “fellowship”? Would you allow Mormans and JW’s to take part in your church service…could they stand up and preach at your church? No, you would not fellowship with them, seeing you consider them outside of the faith. Can light fellowship with darkness? Call Johnny if you need he to make this more clear…maybe he will reply to you on here….

  190. And also not everyone who has the Holy Spirit will have miraculous gifts. And I do not deny the power of God to give such gifts.

    “Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.”

  191. You don’t think there are scriptural grounds to dis-fellowship someone? If someone were living in open sin, refusing to repent, you would allow them to still fellowship? Even my dad ( Pentecostal Preacher btw ) would dis-fellowship someone, if needed. I listened to a well known Baptist preacher a while back, who said it was the churches duty to dis-fellowship those who claim to be Christian, but refuse to repent….turning them over to Satan. Many groups practice “dis-fellowship” in one form or another….

  192. Randy, do you see how quickly you canged your view, not too many minutes ago you were trying say that Johnny doesn’t defellowship people and was angry that I would say such a thing, and now you are trying to justify that he does defellowship people.

    Here’s your comments just a bit ago:

    “Youre so wrong on many points. Who ever told you Johnny doesnt allow sinners to visit at Martinsville? That is a falt out lie!”

    “Johnny welcome anyone and everyone to come visit with them…Im not sure where you got your info from, but I know firsthand it to be false”

  193. Show me one, just one “worker of miracles” one who has this gift…and then lets take this worker of miracles out of the arena and into the hospitals….heck, I know quite a few people who need to see the worker of miracles person….I have many dead friends and family whom I miss….sure would love to see these modern day worker of miracles do as Peter and raise them from the dead.

    Not seeing those who have the gift of healing either….find one please and take them to the nearest hospital.

    Haven’t met any Apostles either today – think they were required to have seen Christ

    But, we sure do see a lot of the tongue speaking today….seems this gift is easy to get and the others within the context are not as popular…..wonder why?? Its easy to fake tongues and act as if God is speaking gibberish through you, but it’s a bit hard to fake raising the dead, or making someone’s limb grow back….

  194. Well, I and others have heard The Illiterate One boast that he would not even shake hands with a person, if that person were not in his “Church of Christ”.

    Where is the outreach in that?!?

  195. I honestly don’t know what he meant by that….and I have seen him do just the opposite. He and James even helped a woman move her things from her house to another place…….she was a member of Jackie Poes church….so, I’m not sure what the context was when Johnny said this…..we shook hands the first day we met in person and he introduced his family to me……..I seen just the opposite than what you describe.

  196. On November 11, 2008 at 11:36 am churchesofChrist Said:

    I honestly don’t know what he meant by that….and I have seen him do just the opposite. He and James even helped a woman move her things from her house to another place…….she was a member of Jackie Poes church….so, I’m not sure what the context was when Johnny said this…..we shook hands the first day we met in person and he introduced his family to me……..I seen just the opposite than what you describe.

    It was an opportunity to make JP look bad and they jumped on it. Having a hidden agenda is not the same as doing something for someone who has done nothing or can do nothing for you, in that case they gained political clout.

    You better start reading between the lines a little more and understanding the motivation, as long as he has a shot at getting his hooks in you he will be nice and sweet, but once you have chosen to side against him he will do to you as he does to others, and that is pretty much anything goes as long as he can find a scripture to cover himself!

  197. 1 Corinthians 5: 9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.
    12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

    This is what Johnny means by dis-fellowship. Those who are not Christians are not in Christian fellowship and therefore technically cannot be dis-fellowshipped. They are to be taught to obey. Those who are in fellowship, but walk unworthily (as Paul outlines it) are to have fellowship withdrawn from them until they come to repentance.

  198. 2 Corinthians 4:2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

    Based on the tactics thread that was started here Corey does the Church of Christ Gossip TV show follow the above practice?

  199. I don’t live in your area, don’t see the show and won’t comment on something I haven’t seen. All I’ve seen are the DVDs that Johnny sent me and I’ve seen nothing in them about the things you all talk about so much here.

  200. I think the biggest turn off is how he attacks people with names and can come across as rude at times. And people get turned off by them filming them in their cars, yards, churches, and then taking the clips back and running them over and over on TV. Its really entertainment and many watch just for that reason.

    The btm line though is people don’t like Johnny because they cant answer Johnny and he does come across as rude and mean spirited to people, but I honestly don’t think he is a mean person…maybe passionate and over zealous….and maybe that is what it takes to get some peoples attention. Maybe he wants to save people from hell and is trying to get their attention.

    He is very disliked in our area. I know of professing Christians who said they wouldn’t care if he wrecked and got killed. They had to shut the TV station down once because another preachers family threatened to shoot him with a 38…was the Pastors wife and his kids….they made threats on his life. I think Johnny was even chased once after a program upwards to 100 miles per hour in his car.

  201. Johnny showed on his TV show how he went to that preachers house and the pastors wife was inside the house by herself and she is also elderly and Johnny and crew were harassing and trying to taunt her. An elderly women in her house alone with several younger men around her house that won’t leave her alone could easily become afraid and feel threatened.

  202. And the questions we asked Johnny are still unanswered, how come Johnny cannot answer any of our questions??

  203. Which questions has he not answered? Maybe he would offer you some air time to ask him some questions.

  204. On November 8, 2008 at 4:00 pm churchesofchrist Said:
    honesty TRUTH, your questions I have seen arent hard to answer, but the reason I havent is bcause I havent been checking here that much lately.

    Seeing that you are here more now, why don’t you answer them?

  205. Honestly, I have no idea what questions you are referring to…but my answers may not be how he will answer your questions. Just call his show and ask him? I bet he would even let you come on TV and ask them.

  206. Questions asked Johnny has yet to answer:

    1. Where in the Bible does it someone is condemned if they are not baptized?

    2. Who was in control when speaking in tongues, the Spirit or the person?

    3. How do these verses apply in your life?

    “knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.”

    “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast.”

    4. Food served to Idols, Jewish Council sent a letter for gentiles to avoid it, Paul teaches them that food does not matter, under CoC unity pratices whom should we consider defellowshipped and a false teacher? Peter or Paul??

    Add to that how does Peter include saved in the Angels message when the Angel did not say those words in Acts 10? If if Peter assumed salvation how is it that Cornelius’ prayers were heard when he was not a member of the CoC or saved?
    Add to the list…

    How is what he is doing, glorifying Christ?

    Here are some questions for you as well,
    How can you use the Bible when it was formed by persons you would consider to be non-Christians? (i.e Orthodox and Catholic Priests) Did God have a hand in deciding what books made it into the Bible? If so, why didn’t he utilize the CoC to do so?

    Do you sing songs during worship that were written by non-CoC members? If so, how can God accept praise from people you consider to be non-Christians? Is it still a Christian Hymn?

  207. The fist question listed should be, Where in the Bible does it say someone is condemned if they are not baptized?

    Randy you are welcome to answer these questions too, and you can skip the first one seeing you said you have no more to say on this matter, which I agreed with.

  208. I really gotta go, check back later to see if the questions can be answered by those who, “always have an answer.”

  209. 1.Where in the Bible does it someone is condemned if they are not baptized?

    – Can we be disobedient and it not be condemned?

    2.Who was in control when speaking in tongues, the Spirit or the person?

    – people today tongue speaking are in control of their tongue speaking

    3. How do these verses apply in your life?

    – Sure we are justified by faith in Chirst – who denies this?? But faith acts – its not alone. Baptism is an act of faith, not works and sure not law.

    …and you said I was all over the place… 🙂

    maybe Johnny will address these further and your others

  210. You really did not answer. The first question how about BCV that says,” a person is condemned if they are not baptized.” The second question was asking who was in control in the verses that talk about speaking in tongues. And the third question you didn’t give an answer to how these verses apply in your life saying we are not saved by works and not of ourselves but by Gods grace. And you did not even try to answer the rest of the questions asked.

  211. 1. Where in the Bible does it someone is condemned if they are not baptized?

    It doesn’t explicitly say it, nor does it explicitly say many things, but an honest person can put 2 and 2 together. 2 Timothy 2:10 says that salvation is found IN Christ. How do we get IN Christ? We are baptized INTO Him (Gal. 3:27, Rom. 6:3).

    2. Who was in control when speaking in tongues, the Spirit or the person?

    1 Corinthians 14:28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God

    The Spirit gave the gift, but since Paul commanded that they be silent if there is no interpreter we see that the individual could control the gift. Now perhaps you could answer a couple of my questions:

    1. How did individuals in the New Testament receive the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit?
    2. (If you believe these gifts continue today) how do people receive them today?

    3. How do these verses apply in your life?

    “knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.”

    “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast.”

    #1: this refers to the law of Moses, which Jesus nailed to the cross. Since it has been taken away, no one can be justified by it today.
    #2: no good work we can ever do will earn the salvation that is given by grace. We are to do the things we’ve been commanded to do knowing that none of them will pay the debt we owe.

    4. Food served to Idols, Jewish Council sent a letter for gentiles to avoid it, Paul teaches them that food does not matter, under CoC unity pratices whom should we consider defellowshipped and a false teacher? Peter or Paul??

    The Jewish Council told the Gentiles to avoid certain things because:

    Acts 15: 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

    They were to avoid them because of how it would offend the Jews. Paul said pretty much the same thing:

    Romans 14: 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak

    Add to that how does Peter include saved in the Angels message when the Angel did not say those words in Acts 10? If if Peter assumed salvation how is it that Cornelius’ prayers were heard when he was not a member of the CoC or saved?
    Add to the list…

    I have answered this many times. I can’t convince someone who has the nerve to call an inspired apostle a liar.

    How is what he is doing, glorifying Christ?

    Since this is directed at Johnny, I’ll let him answer for himself.

    How can you use the Bible when it was formed by persons you would consider to be non-Christians? (i.e Orthodox and Catholic Priests) Did God have a hand in deciding what books made it into the Bible? If so, why didn’t he utilize the CoC to do so?

    The Catholics didn’t write the Bible. They simply had a hand in assembling it. The very words of the Bible condemn them. God decided what went into the Bible by inspiring its writers and preserving their words. The last part of the question is just absurd.

    Do you sing songs during worship that were written by non-CoC members? If so, how can God accept praise from people you consider to be non-Christians? Is it still a Christian Hymn?

    If an unrepentant sinner states that Jesus is the Christ does that make the statement a lie? An atheist could write a Biblical hymn if they used the Bible. The praise isn’t given by non-Christians, but by actual Christians who offer the praise, making it a Christian hymn.

    You now have answers to your questions. This should also give walkinlove something to do for 20 minutes while he furiously types his line-by-line response to my answers.

  212. Corey I will reply to the answer you gave to the question I asked.

    On November 11, 2008 at 3:25 pm coreydavis Said:

    How do these verses apply in your life?

    “knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.”

    “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast.”

    #1: this refers to the law of Moses, which Jesus nailed to the cross. Since it has been taken away, no one can be justified by it today.
    #2: no good work we can ever do will earn the salvation that is given by grace. We are to do the things we’ve been commanded to do knowing that none of them will pay the debt we owe.

    #1 I don’t believe it is referring to only the law of Moses, because it doesn’t say by the works of the law of Moses it says, by the works of the law “period”.

    #2 I agree.

  213. “The btm line though is people don’t like Johnny because they cant answer Johnny and he does come across as rude and mean spirited to people,”

    The Illiterate One is responded and answered to all the time. He just doesn’t want to extend to other people the attention that he demands.

    And he is rude and mean-spirited.

  214. # On November 10, 2008 at 3:47 pm lee Said:

    # On November 8, 2008 at 9:38 pm lee Said:

    On August 15, 2008 at 4:18 pm Johnny Said:

    Lee
    I will never reference your wife in any conversation
    we can change it around and it was my wife

    now was my point true?

    On November 8, 2008 at 11:55 am johnny Said:

    if what u say on marriage is true

    if Lee was going to leave his wife and kids for another woman… and his wife called “Walking in love” what would she hear

    she would hear “Mrs Lee, you need to just be still…” God is a loving God and he will forgive Lee if he goes out on you with another woman.
    Lee will be able to be the daddy of some other kids as well as these with you and thereby spread himself around to more usefulness.
    God will forgive him.

    Now if she calls me I will council Lee to realize that he is about to make a fatal mistake. He can never remarry with God’s approval because Mrs Lee is a faithful loving wife and he vowed to remain faithful to her until death. God joined the unin in heaven Matt 19:6 and says “let no man put asunder” what he joined. If you try you will go to hell.

    who is responsible for all the divorces in this country me or Walking n love?
    you be the judge

    now my question to you all…….
    is john a liar?
    lee

    still no answer

  215. # On November 8, 2008 at 7:08 pm lee Said:

    Act 2:4 And2532 they were all537 filled4130 with the Holy40 Ghost,4151 and2532 began756 to speak2980 with other2087 tongues,1100 as2531 the3588 Spirit4151 gave1325 them846 utterance.669

    so……since no one wants to help me on my journey,
    ill start on my own.
    it would seem to indicate that in order for the
    people to speak the holy ghost would have to prompt
    them first……for lack of a better way to say it.
    now john says that this event was to show the power of god to unbelievers. in other scripture something different happened when believers spoke in tongues.
    now why would the holy ghost give utterance to those in the church when he would know in advance that there would not be anyone there who could interpret?
    let two or three speak and if no one can interpret
    be quiet.
    so it was not always for others to hear but sometimes for the one speaking………..i know you fine folks
    dont think god makes mistakes………right?
    I WOULD THAT YOU ALL SPOKE WITH TONGUES>>>>PAUL
    john,randy,rick,anyone else this shoe fits……..
    you dont know jack about this subject……..and no i dont care if you did grow up around it.
    i dont care if you think all pentacostals bark at the moon and roll on the floor.
    oh yea…. and if some holiness person treated you bad along the way….well me too. whaaaaaaa….. man up.
    what god chooses to give i cannot refuse.
    praise god

    answer please
    lee

  216. randy implies that only the apostles spoke in tongues.
    so then paul was only talking to apostles in 1cor.
    is that right randy?
    lee

  217. On November 11, 2008 at 7:11 pm lee Said:
    randy implies that only the apostles spoke in tongues.
    so then paul was only talking to apostles in 1cor.
    is that right randy?
    lee

    – no, Lee… that was not what I was saying at all. If you wish to continue, please use Chris’s blog or someone elses. Elvis has left the building on this blog – so jump over to Chris or someone else’s blog…later

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