100K Just Around the Corner

Hard to believe, but if you’ll look over at the counter to the right, you’ll see that this blog is approaching the 100,000 mark.  That’s pretty amazing, considering the subject matter and the amount of effort that has gone into advertising the place (read: zero).  

I hope that as we get close to that landmark number of hits, that folks will remind themselves of the purpose of this blog – to discuss a certain teaching within a certain branch of the Christian faith – the hyperconservatives in the churches of Christ.  We’re not a place for bashing or personal digs (although it has happened here in the past) – we’re a place for discussion, and hopefully for enlightenment.

But mostly, this place should be a place where we celebrate God as He has revealed Himself in the writings of the Old and New Testaments – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.  That could happen a LOT more here.  Remember, we all claim to be followers of the same God, and so even if we have BIG disagreements, we should let that commonality bring us unity, and should affect the way we communicate to each other.

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110 thoughts on “100K Just Around the Corner

  1. Amen, Nathan! I know I have not contributed much lately-I have been out of town on an interview (PLEASE pray that it comes through), while working a temp job and lately have been sick.

    Thanks for reminding us what is REALLY important!

    “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.” ~John 3:16-17

  2. Thanks, Truth! I have been catching up on what you have been writing, and you continue to speak what your name proclaims: Truth. Keep the faith and keep speaking the truth! It is encouraging to read 🙂

  3. On September 28, 2008 at 11:59 am Katherine Said:

    “For God so loved the world that he gave his that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

    Better ditch that NIV katherine;

    “one and only Son”,

    Ge 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

    Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

  4. Again Katherine welcome back 🙂

    As you can see Johnny and TD and the reast of them are still attacking Christians. I don’t know if you were gone out of town when Johnny and his men attacked a group of Christians at a Baptist Church on their homecoming. It was a total disgrace what Johnny and them did.

  5. Johnny and TD try to make Christians stumble to try to prove that Church and the people there are not Christians. Johnny, TD and the rest of them do not show mercy to Christians because they don’t know the love and mercy that God gives us.

  6. Robert, I haven’t read much of what you guys are discussing at the link you provided, but will say this: Jesus is our pattern, not man made patterns built from man-made inferences and assumptions. If Jesus is our pattern we will “keep his commandments” …but we shouldn’t get the cart before the horse here. Some seemed focused on laws and rules as the pattern and deem the New Testament as a legal code / law book. Our focus should and must always be upon Jesus and then these things should follow, but not from a legalistic approach, but from love. Are there guidelines, rules, standards, in the New Testament? Sure. Our approach to these is what is at hand. Where I draw the line is when fallible men say their inferences and assumptions are to be treated as law. This is the very reason we have so much “division” within the churches of Christ…we have many men inferring many things…all who also claim they have “The Pattern”. I have yet to receive a detailed list of “The Pattern”….and the very reason is because they all know they have different patterns. Some church of Christ people will not fellowship with brethren who use “One cup” and visa-versa and there are over 100 other things that have divided the church of Christ……the question is do we base “Unity” upon these differences or should we base “Unity” upon Jesus – the True Pattern…

  7. Katherine,

    Why do most church of Christ assemblies preach pattern theology?
    Why do all refuse to write down every detail the pattern consist of ?

    Some worm their way around this by throwing in the “expedient” card. They will take the so-called 5 acts of worship and say “here’s ya pattern” and then everything else is “expedients”…matters of judgment. What is funny is they denominate themselves over what they call expedients. Try making a One Cuppers commune with a Multiple Cuppers…

    Some even divide over the so-called 5 acts of worship….

    And the whole time all of this denominating continues to live, they still proclaim – to be united – speaking the same things – following the pattern – walking together…

  8. T.D. said:

    On September 28, 2008 at 11:59 am Katherine Said:

    “For God so loved the world that he gave his that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

    Better ditch that NIV katherine;

    “one and only Son”,

    KATHERINE NOW ANSWERS:

    Leave it to you, T.D. to ruin and distort what I said and what is at the heart of the Good News of the Gospel message by concentrating on semantics or versions of the Bible.

    The POINT and PURPOSE of what I said, why God sent Jesus to earth, and the reason we are saved is because of GOD’s LOVE: “For God so LOVED the world”…that He sent JESUS so that we who believe have ETERNAL LIFE…and the part I was really trying to amplify that you continually seem to miss is that Jesus came to SAVE the world, NOT condemn it.

    It is sad to me that you cannot even see or embrace that because all you see are the things that divide, instead of our common bond in Christ. You are truly missing out.

  9. Randy-to answer your question-I really don’t know-I guess because we are fallible humans with many opinions, and some have seemed to not focus only on Jesus, but on getting everything “right”, instead of remembering that when we love God, we follow His commandments-but they are not burdensome.

    I just cannot engage in this discussion right now to the extent I could before-I have other personal issues that require my attention, and am still trying to figure out where my place is in all of this-in churches that is…

    I do think in answer to what you said-that we have to constantly be honest with ourselves-with who we are, where we have come from, and where we are going-for without that, we will not be effective in evangelizing a lost world-just fighting amongst ourselves until we are destroyed from within. I certainly do not want to see that happen.

  10. Oh, and T.D.-to speak further about what you said…

    Yes, we are all sons and daughters through God our Father who has adopted us as His children who believe and follow His Son.

    For he chose us in Him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love He predestined us to be adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will—to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the One he loves”. ~Ephesians 1:4-6

    Now, THAT is Good News!!

    It is also interesting that you would quote this Scripture:

    Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    …yet you CHOOSE not to accept many of those who are sons and daughters of God because HE HIMSELF has given them the power and promise of salvation-because you don’t want to accept them. That I will never understand, because it is far from who God is and why Jesus bled and died for our sins, and showers His love on us.

  11. On September 28, 2008 at 3:57 pm T.D. Said:

    On September 28, 2008 at 11:59 am Katherine Said:

    “For God so loved the world that he gave his that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

    Better ditch that NIV katherine;

    “one and only Son”,

    It’s better to study the original Greek and Hebrew keywords, along with ALL translations to get a feel for what the originals were really trying to say.

    Otherwise you can read the restoration of Peter by Jesus and totally miss that Jesus was using Agape when he said the word love while Peter used Phileo in his replies to Jesus. This perfect translation has many flaws as do all of them.

    But the perfect has come even with its poor handling of agape and phileo.

    Give it a rest TD.

    Katherine I for one well be praying for you, I hope that your schedule will allow you to post more often as they are very edify to the soul!

  12. On September 29, 2008 at 9:07 am Truth Said:

    Johnny and TD try to make Christians stumble to try to prove that Church and the people there are not Christians. Johnny, TD and the rest of them do not show mercy to Christians because they don’t know the love and mercy that God gives us.

    And before two or more witness’ a thing is confirmed. I concur with Truth’s statement that one of the greatest joys I have heard in Johnny Robertson’s voice was when that man used the A word for your rear end. He would have broken out in dance had he not thought it a sin to do so!

    I asked this in the other thread, how can men who are defending the true faith, use Satanic tactics to advance that faith and not be disciplined by God for breaking the things he hates? God says he disciplines those he loves, and he hates many of the things they are using to destabilize churches.

    Proverbs 6: 17 haughty eyes,
    a lying tongue,

    In one show I saw where JR claimed to use recording devices as a defense against those who claim he said things that were not true, while just moments later playing himself on tape gleefully claiming “I caught you, do you know I caught you”

    Johnny Robertson lied to his caller because he uses recording devices to bring others down and to show others in as poor a light as he can.

    hands that shed innocent blood,

    18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
    feet that are quick to rush into evil,

    In the same show JR said to everyone that he knew the law and what those people could and could not do, knowing this and even though there were other men from his church present, he had his son hold the camera in the hopes it would be taken. And when it was he starting complaining about how his son was assaulted by a very big man. He had thought this out and how it would play on TV so that either he could record against the wishes of that congregation and its leadership or trap them into taking the camera. He in fact sowed a wicked scheme intending to trap.

    19 a false witness who pours out lies
    and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

    During the same show he was so sure those church people were lying to him that he was going down to the courthouse to get the facts. What he did not realize is the man was talking about his easement property that he owned. He spun that information to make it look like the church was hiding who owned their property and thus was in fact acting as a false witness against them. He also had his people enter there service in the hopes of creating an event he could use to cause people to leave that church, thus he was sowing discord among brothers.

    So there are 4 of the 7 and not 3 of the 7 as I originally considered him doing in one show. All this done where both believers and more importantly unbelievers could see, thus hardening those hearts against the Good News.

    Hebrews 12:5And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons:
    “My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
    and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
    6because the Lord disciplines those he loves,
    and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son.”

    Since I saw this on his TV show and I have it recorded to protect myself how is it that this is not happening:

    Hebrews 12:5And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons:
    “My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
    and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
    6because the Lord disciplines those he loves,
    and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son.”

    As sons God should be dealing with them on their sins in this matter. But it appears that he is not doing so, why?

  13. Katherine said:
    It is sad to me that you cannot even see or embrace that because all you see are the things that divide, instead of our common bond in Christ. You are truly missing out.

    Then Katherine said:

    I just cannot engage in this discussion right now to the extent I could before-I have other personal issues that require my attention, and am still trying to figure out where my place is in all of this-in churches that is…

    Sounds to me like you are the one who is “missing out” Katherine.

    Read these verses again carefully Katherine;
    Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    Does this say “as many as received him, became the sons of God” or does it say ” as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God”?

    Also Katherine Eph 1:4 reads “in him”
    According as he hath chosen us in him

    Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
    6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

    These verses are referring to Christians who have been baptized “into” Christ, therefore being added to the Church of Christ, the “ONE” body, which eliminates any and all other “bodies” such as baptist, methodist, catholics, jehovah witness, mormon, etc. etc. etc. who all teach perverted false doctrines which Christians are told not to even bid them God speed and you, dear Katherine welcome them with open arms.

    2Jo 1:10 ¶ If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
    11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

    Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
    14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
    15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

    Ga 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

  14. On September 29, 2008 at 9:07 am Truth Said:
    Johnny and TD try to make Christians stumble to try to prove that Church and the people there are not Christians. Johnny, TD and the rest of them do not show mercy to Christians because they don’t know the love and mercy that God gives us.

    No truth;
    Are you that blind or just completely ignorant?
    If you are reffering to those at the dead faith baptist church, the reason they do not worship with the catholics is because they teach a different doctrine, the reason the catholics don’t worship with the jehovah witness is because they teach a different doctrine, the reason the methodist don’t worship with the pentecostals is because they teach a different doctrine.

    How can a person have faith that God will save them in church that is not mentioned in His word?

    Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

    Have you ever heard of an “independant democrate republican” Of course not.

    how about a baptist catholic, didn’t think so.

    jehovah witness muslim, Strange isn’t it?

    Just as foreign to God as:

    Baptist christian
    methodist christian
    catholic christian
    or how about a Pentecostal presbyterian apostolic jehovah witness methodist disciple of christ baptist muslim seventh day adventist christian? Whew!

    That would be a chaplin.

    Mt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

  15. Johnny and his men don’t accept why Jesus died on the cross, to save all men from their sins. I choose to accept Gods grace and choose to accept that He is greater than anything on this earth. They don’t accept Gods grace. They don’t accept that Gods grace is enough to save them. They depend on their own flesh to save them, not God. They don’t accept that where the law condemns us God gives us mercy. They don’t accept that Jesus saved the thief on the cross. They don’t accept that Gods grace goes way beyond anything physical we do in our flesh. They don’t accept that God can save a man because He knows what is in their heart. They don’t accept that God accepts anyone who believes Jesus is their Savior, when God says that He does.

    “But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnesses by the law and Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all who believe.”

    “If you can believe all things are possible to him who believes.”

    God accepts whoever believes Jesus is our Savior who died for our sins. Not being able to see Gods face physically with our eyes we still believe He is. When we believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose again so our sins can be forgiven God accepts us. There is no greater faith than to believe something you cannot see physically, absolute trust. We should try to follow his commands because of our love for Him. We should strive to live for Him all the days of our life. When we stop thinking we are in control and look to God to help guide us He will take care of us. We do and will fall short, but God still loves us. Satan will try to tell us that if we aren’t perfect that God will not love us. That way Satan thinks he has got us, because he knows we as humans are not perfect and that’s when he tries to attack us. God tells us He freely gives us His mercy and grace. God loved us so much that He gave us Jesus to die for our sins so that we could be with Him. Jesus died so that we can be forgiven. Jesus died so that where the law condemns us He saves us. God is more awesome than we could ever imagine. For our Lord Jesus Christ said:
    “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

  16. No truth said:
    God accepts whoever believes Jesus is our Savior who died for our sins. Not being able to see Gods face physically with our eyes we still believe He is. When we believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose again so our sins can be forgiven God accepts us.

    WOW, and to think Peter went to all this for nothing according to you.

    Ac 2:37 ¶ Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    And why in the world philip went through all this when they were already safe according to you.

    Ac 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
    13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

    And the Eunuch out in the middle of nowhere while on his travels did this just for a testamony to philip according according to you.

    Ac 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
    38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

    And why Ananias didn’t tell Saul/Paul that he was already safe four days ago according to you. STRANGE

  17. Cont.

    Ac 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
    18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

  18. Cont.

    Cornelius had already received the Holy Spirit so according to you Peter should have told him he was a saved man and yet Peter COMMANDED them to be baptized.

    Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
    48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

    And the jailor at midnight after an earthquake, Paul and Silas sure was unmerciful to him according to you.

    Ac 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

    And Lydia according to you sure went to a lot of trouble for nothing.

    Ac 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
    15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

    the chief ruler being baptized just as an outward showing for an inward faith according to you. strange

    Ac 18:8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

  19. On October 2, 2008 at 3:19 pm Truth Said:
    Johnny and his men don’t accept why Jesus died on the cross, to save all men from their sins. I choose to accept Gods grace and choose to accept that He is greater than anything on this earth.

    Truth is
    You don’t accept this and Jesus spoke this himself.

    Mr 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

  20. The thief on the cross must have been one righteous dude to be the only man not being baptized that Jesus saved. And I forgot, you guys are perfect and sinless and never fall short of the glory of God. Jesus is no longer the only perfect man who walked the earth, NOT!!! If you think you follow all of Gods commands perfect, you are ignorant. You just don’t know how great God is.

  21. Act 5:32 And2532 we2249 are2070 his846 witnesses3144 of these5130 things;4487 and2532 so is also1161 the3588 Holy40 Ghost,4151 whom3739 God2316 hath given1325 to them that obey3980 him.846

    to them that obey him, hmmmmmm…………………….
    seems td needs to reconstitute that stew hes serving,
    its a little dry.
    all those obedient gentiles got a gift before being
    baptized.
    lee

  22. Truth, when Peter preached they ask “what shall we do”, did Peter say, “you must be put upon a cross like the thief” ? You know what Peter told them, you just dont like what Peter told them. If you preached a sermom like Peter and some ask you “what shall we do” would you tell them what Peter said?? Or would you say “guys, you can be saved like the thief, you dont need to do anything, its Jesus and nothing else”??? Btm line, we know what Peter said…

  23. And what is the second part of Peter’s answer? “…and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

    You don’t hear much about that part when taking parts in discussions like this with “church of Christ” folks.

    And I’d invite folks to take a look at Ephesians 1:12,13 for an interesting addition of info on the timing of the reception of the Holy Spirit in a believer’s life.

  24. is this thing on?
    how can you recieve except your obedient?
    and how can you be obedient except your born again?
    so the gentiles must have already been obedient before
    they received the holy ghost.
    amen.
    lee

  25. Oh, but lee… lee… lee…

    That was a special giving of the Holy Spirit done for the sake of proving to everyone that the Gospel wasn’t just for the Jewish people. It wasn’t meant as a part of the “pattern”. Why wasn’t it? Because certain people say so.

    It’s called cherry picking.

  26. yes but i provided chapter and verse.
    what does it mean if it doesnt mean what
    it mean?
    im not a very smart man…..[forrest]
    lee

  27. On October 3, 2008 at 6:23 am answeringchurchofchrist Said:
    And what is the second part of Peter’s answer? “…and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

    – come on Nathan, you know I have addressed this before. I agree, you dont hear this part when most church of Christ preachers say one must understand the purpose…but, it seems to me the gift is salvation

  28. On October 2, 2008 at 4:37 pm Truth Said:
    The thief on the cross must have been one righteous dude to be the only man not being baptized that Jesus saved.

    no truth
    Lu 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
    40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
    41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
    42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

    Why do you insist that the thief on the cross was not baptized, when there is more evidence suggesting that he had been for he said ” but this man hath done nothing amiss.” How did he know Jesus had done nothing amiss? “And he said unto Jesus, Lord,” Why would he call Jesus Lord if not a disciple? “remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.” Why would this man believe that Jesus was going to be King of Kings when he was dying on a cross right beside him?

    And the malefactor on the other side of Jesus, Was he a God fearing man? Had he attained this perfect knowledge that you all keep talking about, or had he lived his entire life as a rebellious sinner and just didn’t care?

    Wheather the thief was or was not baptized does not matter because while Jesus walked the earth he had power to forgive sins, Mt 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
    7 And he arose, and departed to his house.

    After his death, burial,and resurrection he said this;
    Mr 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
    16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

    Just like the malefactor on the other side of Jesus you all keep railing, “but he didn’t say he that believeth not and is baptized not shall be damned”

    Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    malefactor: “For” should be “because of”

    Ac 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

    malefactor: being baptized doesn’t wash away sins.

    1Pe 3:21 ¶ The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

    malefactor: baptism does not save us.

  29. Randy,

    Salvation is salvation. The gift of the Holy Spirit is the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    They’re two different things.

  30. hey td,
    god says that he only gives a certain gift to those
    who obey him.
    how can that person be obedient unless they are saved?
    lee

  31. lee, Johnny and his men don’t want to accept the Bible shows that people are saved who are not baptized. They don’t accept that the Holy Spirit is powerful enough to save us. They don’t accept that Jesus saved the thief on the cross, who was not baptized. They don’t accept that Cornelius’ and the others with him were saved, who had not been baptized yet, or that Paul was saved when he got his sight back, and he wasn’t baptized yet. Jesus healed many people and gave them mercy just for having faith and believing who He is, the same mercy God gives to “whoever” believes Jesus is their Savior. Through faith by His grace we are saved.

  32. On October 3, 2008 at 8:04 am answeringchurchofchrist Said:

    Oh, but lee… lee… lee…

    That was a special giving of the Holy Spirit done for the sake of proving to everyone that the Gospel wasn’t just for the Jewish people. It wasn’t meant as a part of the “pattern”. Why wasn’t it? Because certain people say so.

    It’s called cherry picking.

    let me be the first man to say amen to the words cherry picking! 😉 Actually it does fit the pattern, thats the same pattern that allows James Oldfield to declare those who support a business that sells alcohol wrong while going to grocery store and buying food that sells beer and wine and not seeing it as the same thing.

    Its wrong because I say its wrong, its right because I agree with it.

    It’s like Corey and TD who would never publicly oppose JR even if he by his own words is caught lying to the TV world over video recording devices. When you say you use something for defensive purposes and in the same show gleefully say “I appreciate you sir, and I caught you, you know I caught you” you see the true colors of the wolf under the sheep’s disguise. He can lie and it’s ok, he can set a trap using his son and it’s ok, he can sow discord and its ok, he can play curse words on TV and its ok, why, because he is one of the family and the family can do what they want and even do the things that God says he hates and its because he is defending the truth. Well where I come from, when you lie about what you are doing to defend the truth you are not defending the truth you are simply a liar.

    Except for God I would say the Devil knows the bible better then any of us. He is after all quoted as tempting Jesus and quoted scripture. The difference is that it can’t change the inside of the cup.

    Many of the interchanges here have reminded me of what it must have been like to debate the publican who was thankful he was not like that sinner.

    So again how is it that JR can violate what God hates and not be disciplined for his actions that go against what God has said he hates TD? Corey? Any other CoC who believe JR is doing God’s will?

  33. TD,

    You quote James again. Since you were not able to tell us the context of that passage last time, I’ll go ahead and tell you this time.

    James was speaking to a specific context where people were not acting properly (2:1), dishonoring the poor, showing partiality towards the rich (2:2,3).

    “What good is it, my brothers and sisters,” James writes, “if you say you have faith but do not…” …feed and clothe the poor. “Can that faith save him?” (h pistiv swsai auton?) Of course that faith can’t save him, because it’s not faith when you claim to follow the Lord and don’t take care of the needy in your community.

    James goes on to reiterate this point by showing the stupidity of someone claiming faith but not having any works to show for it (2:18). The passage you quote (2:24) is not hard to understand when looked at in light of these other passages – James is plainly saying that the two go together – that if you have one, you have the other, or conversely, that one without the other is useless. Singer Rich Mullins put it this way, “faith without works, like a song you can’t sing, it’s about as useless as a screen door on a submarine.”

    I especially like James 5:15, “And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.”

  34. On October 3, 2008 at 1:08 pm answeringchurchofchrist Said:
    Randy,

    Salvation is salvation. The gift of the Holy Spirit is the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    They’re two different things

    – do you have this gift? Explain please.

  35. On October 3, 2008 at 3:39 pm T.D. Said:
    Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only

    – TD, come on now…you know Paul taught against salvation by works, so maybe James is saying true faith will produce good works, thus showing you justified. Keep the cart before the horse…we arent saved by doing good works, but saved unto good works…works prove we are justified…thus “ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only”

  36. I especially like James 5:15, “And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.”

    – this verse refers to the person praying for the sick person. Its not the sick persons faith here, but the faith of the one praying for the sick.

  37. Johnny and his men try to say that baptism is essential to salvation because in Acts 2:38 Peter told them repent and be baptized.

    It is the repenting that brought them salvation not the baptism, and Peter knew that. In Peter’s very next sermon in Acts 3:19 when he was speaking to a group of people, baptism is left out altogether, but he tells them to repent. So we can see that it wasn’t the baptism that brought forgiveness it was the repentance. It is our faith in Jesus Christ that brings forgiveness.

  38. On October 4, 2008 at 6:07 pm churchesofchrist Said:

    On October 3, 2008 at 1:08 pm answeringchurchofchrist Said:
    Randy,

    Salvation is salvation. The gift of the Holy Spirit is the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    They’re two different things

    – do you have this gift? Explain please.

    Jude 1: 19These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

    Do you not have the spirit, based on Jude please explain? If you do have the spirit then you are sealed, if you do not then you are part of Jude 1:19 if I operate as a CoC hardliner.

    20But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. 21Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

    Pray in the Spirit, not the gifts or tools of the spirit, you can’t have the tools without the Spirit itself!
    How is someone a christian and not have the Holy Spirit? The gifts of the Spirit can only come to someone who has the Holy Spirit. Agape love comes from God, that love that allows you to love someone even if they are not doing as they should. Without the Holy Spirit how can you learn Agape level of love?

  39. Ah nothing like a few minutes spent listening to Norm teach about authority of his priesthood while knowing they are unwilling to submit to other authority in other organizations when they post signs.

    Yet another hypocritical example of the pattern of hypocrisy! I can’t wait till I can watch it all.

    Hey since the CoC are the only ones who have their prayers heard according to them that is, why don’t they accept the challenge, lets have you go to a cancer center and clear the place out with the effective prayers of righteous men! After all you of all people should know God’s will best right?

    And yes if anyone isn’t sure I am being sarcastic! At least in the second paragraph.

  40. On October 3, 2008 at 1:39 pm lee Said:
    hey td,
    god says that he only gives a certain gift to those
    who obey him.
    how can that person be obedient unless they are saved?

    lee, who is the last person named here? did he not have gifts of the spirit?

    Mt 10:1 ¶ And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
    2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
    3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
    4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

  41. TD there is no mention of spirit in your post or gift, why would you falsely conclude that your post is about spiritual gifts? The power was from Jesus not the spirit.

    I find it interesting you run to Jesus having power to forgive sins to cover the idol worship of Water to prove the thief on the cross was not under the New Covenant even though there is proof that the New Covenant is in existence because the veil is torn before the death of the thief, and at the same time want to apply the gifts of the Spirit that come after the Holy Spirit is given in Acts to Judas.

    It’s like that totally false doctrine donkey example that Corey tried to use in the old testament that said nothing about Spirit or gift but was from God himself.

    BTW Judas was only unclean after he was tempted and allowed Satan to enter into him. Until he rejected Christ he was like all the others.

    But no doubt you are exercising some of that Priestly perfect judgment only you have TD LOL!

  42. TD just to make the timeline clear for you.

    Jesus dies, the Veil is torn from top to bottom, the thief has his legs broken causing him to sin after Jesus dies, if you are unwilling to believe he sins as a result of being clubbed to break his legs you can sign a waver allowing someone to nail you to a cross and then have your legs broken and see if you can remain sinless in thought.

    After the Veil is town signifying the New Covenant’s beginning because the sin sacrifice is made the thief dies under that New Covenant. It is clearly written in the Bible and laid out, I suggest you go read it again without allowing your water, as the way the truth and the life, worship bias your study and see the real truth!

    What you have been taught is false!

  43. walking in lies said

    “Johnny Robertson lied to his caller because he uses recording devices to bring others down and to show others in as poor a light as he can.”

    bringing others down… and show them in poor light…
    yes that would be me

    2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
    5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

    Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
    13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

    yes sir we are trying to show just how awful you all really are. The tape the FAITH BAPTIST STOLE from my son contains the unbelievable truth that the older women of that group are being hit up even on wed nite for money to pay for Lackey’s extravagant 3.5 million temple to himself
    Roy Younger lied about the property and persons in Danville who know me but are not associated with me called in to vindicate me. How did you like that part.

    Then the following wed nite a man i never met came from Tabernacle Baptist and filmed our class just to see if it was possible.
    He called and pronounced us true to our words.

    Wonder why recording devices don’t bring us down? Why don’t recording devices put us in a bad light?

    We have nothing to hide. Any one who will just do a little considering can see how recording devices only hurt those that are hiding something.

    Wonder why Chris recording me didnt do any harm to me? Now when i recorded him it did hurt him.
    It showed that I cannot be BROUGHT DOWN BY A RECORDER and I cant BE MADE TO BE IN A POOR LIGHT BY A RECORDER.

    brighten up boys and girls… you can always change!

  44. Been really busy, trying to help someone in a time of need. Not everything is about you and Johnny…Randy. Some us of us do choose to try to care for others and show the love of Jesus, instead of trying to cause someone to stumble and cause strife as you guys do.

    On October 8, 2008 at 8:49 am johnny Said:

    2Co 10:4 “(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)”

    Carnal: not spiritual; merely human
    Carnal as like a camera that is made by humans, not spiritual as in that which is of God. Johnny and his cameras are not the weapons of God but of the flesh.

    5 “Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;”

    Like when Johnny and his men speak against and don’t acknowledge the Holy Spirit.

    Eph 5:12 “For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.”

    Like when Johnny and his men in secret put together a plan to attack Christians and try to make them stumble and cause strife as Christians are assembling together to worship God and give praise to Jesus.

    13 “But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.”

    Like when Johnny and his men expose themselves that they don’t follow all of Gods the commands like to love one another which is something Christians do as the light of Jesus shines on us.

  45. What Johnny and his men do gives us a great example of what Jesus said the Pharisees as they brought a women who sinned to Him thinking they had him and thought Jesus would condemn her, but he didn’t. The same as Johnny thought he had those at the Baptist Church he attacked.

    Jesus said to the Pharisees, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.”

  46. On October 8, 2008 at 4:57 pm Truth Said:
    Been really busy, trying to help someone in a time of need. Not everything is about you and Johnny…Randy

    – nothing is about me Truth….sorry you have taken me that way…can I not state things as I understand them, just as you are doing, but I dont get mad and say “Not everything is about you “. Why dont you and WIL use your real names on here…least a first name.

  47. Randy makes a good point – he’s always been the voice of moderation on this blog. Truth, be careful about throwing out accusations like that.

  48. I am not mad at Randy. I was trying to say why it is that I haven’t been able to comment here lately. I’ve been going to stay with someone who is sick after I leave work and have not hardly been home, and I am tired, maybe that was harsh what I said, so I apologize Randy. Okay Randy? 🙂

  49. I am an associate of Chris Knight.

    He is doing well. Has had to go through a tremendous amount of situation recently including being called away from home.

    Says there is “interesting stuff” coming soon.

  50. On October 8, 2008 at 8:49 am johnny Said:

    walking in lies said

    “Johnny Robertson lied to his caller because he uses recording devices to bring others down and to show others in as poor a light as he can.”

    bringing others down… and show them in poor light…
    yes that would be me

    yes at least you admit it! Now are you going to repent, because you did falsely claim that recording devices were for your protection when you use them for attacking others and bringing them down if you can, you know it and your own words condemn your actions sir!

    2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
    5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

    And your stronghold against your father is the root cause of those you are trying to destroy, perhaps you should pull that stronghold down first then maybe you will see the real truth, that you are deceiving people when they call in.

    Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
    13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

    yes sir we are trying to show just how awful you all really are. The tape the FAITH BAPTIST STOLE from my son contains the unbelievable truth that the older women of that group are being hit up even on wed nite for money to pay for Lackey’s extravagant 3.5 million temple to himself
    Roy Younger lied about the property and persons in Danville who know me but are not associated with me called in to vindicate me. How did you like that part.

    An easement is not church property only a grant of access through that property. Reguardless in your zeal to spring your planned wicked trap you unmasked yourself through you lieing to the caller about video recording devices. You also said you know the law, thus you researched and planned having your son hold the camara when you knew they would remove it. You had how many other men there who could have held it but you WANTED MAXIMUM NEGATIVE PRESS FOR IT SO YOU PUT YOUR SON IN AS THE HOLDER! That sir is a planned wicked scheme that you hatched in order to trap other people who believe in Christ! You are going against what God hates, sowing discord, lying, and planning wicked schemes in order to entrap others is tactics that Satan uses not a Christian sir!

    Then the following wed nite a man i never met came from Tabernacle Baptist and filmed our class just to see if it was possible.
    He called and pronounced us true to our words.

    Helping to destroy others in not God’s work sir, it is Satan’s work and you are doing it very well!

    Wonder why recording devices don’t bring us down? Why don’t recording devices put us in a bad light?

    Because you know the game and how to play it better then anyone else JR, your leadership is unwilling to hold you accountable either because they fear defellowship or they are under the same delusions you are. And because you have no higher organization that can be called you have a free hand to lead your body of believers down the road of drinking your Kool-Aid to use your words!

    We have nothing to hide. Any one who will just do a little considering can see how recording devices only hurt those that are hiding something.

    Thats because they have dealt with a man who claims to be christian and yet uses Satan’s games to attack them JR. They simply do not have any experience dealing with a wicked man of God! Of course you are going to do better as you will in a debate because you have run your game longer then any who will challenge you taking verses out of context in minute sound bites to defend yourself. Why don’t you debate the other CoC man here in the forums since you are all knowing and all seeing? Why because you know you will gain no glory and the holes in your defenses will be exposed because time will be on his side!

    Wonder why Chris recording me didnt do any harm to me? Now when i recorded him it did hurt him.
    It showed that I cannot be BROUGHT DOWN BY A RECORDER and I cant BE MADE TO BE IN A POOR LIGHT BY A RECORDER.

    No but your own words bring you down on TV sir!

    brighten up boys and girls… you can always change!

    As long as you attack others in the faith you will be responded to here and watched closely, you are exposing your true nature, I first thought you were simply on a personal crusade, I had no idea what lengths you are willing to take them to but now I see clearly and the sheep clothing you wear so well in front of the camera is slowly being exposed by God through your own words!

    Telling someone you use recordings for defense while GLEEFULLY claiming “I caught you” is a lie born of Satan sir!

  51. JR if I am now walking in lies it is because I was quoting you!

    You claimed you use recordings to defend yourself, you later expose the true nature of those devices as offensive weapons, when you say one thing and then do the opposite what are you doing?

    Lie: intransitive verb
    1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive 2 : to create a false or misleading impression

    Perhaps you can get websters to enter your scriptures where you attempt to cover yourself and see if they will change the meaning?

    Till then it is you who call yourself a liar by your own methods.

  52. On October 9, 2008 at 5:30 am Randy Said:

    On October 8, 2008 at 4:57 pm Truth Said:
    Been really busy, trying to help someone in a time of need. Not everything is about you and Johnny…Randy

    – nothing is about me Truth….sorry you have taken me that way…can I not state things as I understand them, just as you are doing, but I dont get mad and say “Not everything is about you “. Why dont you and WIL use your real names on here…least a first name.

    Because the CoC use stalking tactics against those who appose them, thus you will have to work to find me, and by doing so take time away from other damaging things you are doing.

    I protect the ones I love from the wolves!

  53. WIL, I sure hope you dont thiink I have some interest if finding you, because I dont. Danville is a big place ya know.

    If yu have noticed, I have not commented much on here lately and it seems others have stopped. I am staying on my blog more and visiting other blogs, where I can learn more about church of Christ doctrine. If you really wish to combat or challenge the church of Christ, there are many blogs that will be glad to hear what you have to say – Coreys, Scotts, Clints, Matts and many,many, more. I will check back here from time to time…take care WIL

  54. NP Randy, I know that JR has pointed this out before and I thought I would give an answer. The advantage I have is that I am in no leadership roll at all and thus I am nothing important as far is where I worship goes.

    I can worship anywhere even in a CoC church except that I do not believe that their call on all others salvation is correct. If JR were more accurate with his teaching and did not leave holes in them I would have been more inclined into listening to him and believing him but we are all obligated to check what we are shown is the truth to see if it is really true.

    For instance a few weeks ago JR gave a talk on Mark 9:38 and how denominations use that to show its ok to be in a denomination. Now JR used the example that said the man who was stopped was one of the 72 who were sent out but lets consider some things.

    While it seemed perfectly logical that this might be true at first, if Jesus sent the man out would he really have stopped if Jesus had said go do this, secondly in Luke it says the following:

    Luke 10:1After this the Lord appointed seventy-two[a] others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go.

    So according to Jesus there were two people doing the work together and what seems to have clued the others in on him not being one of them was he was working alone and not together with another.

    And finally 84 people who were all following Christ would have seen each other and known who each of them were. There is no way that in the conversation that they would not have discovered the man was one of the 72 sent out, it would have been talked about and Jesus would have corrected them to that fact if it were true.

    Thus the conclusion I would make is he was definitely not part of the 72 who went out after the 12!

    Yet JR claims this is what happens and it seems logical when you first hear it, but after going through the scriptures it appears he is wrong in his assumptions!

  55. did anyone get a load of johnny last night?
    hes really on the cutting edge of things.
    talking about bill mahr and his movie making fun of religion. “you know they are making fun of you and so am i” i guess he thinks bill would be more on his side because hes so different than the denomenations.
    he then goes on to appeal to so called christians because of their morals. if we didnt vote this time we could prove how much we would affect the election. and then change the next one with our solidarity.
    you dont need our help john……………
    and besides you wouldnt want to put your shoulder to the grindstone with a bunch of false teaching folks like us? …..careful john they might throw you out
    of the coc.
    lee

  56. JR’s lucky his program doesn’t end up on one of these shows making fun of religion. His program is a huge example of part of the problem, and part of the reason why non-Christians think that Christians are just a bunch of loons.

    And it’s kind of amusing that he’d call on the Christian voters (whom he considers to be non-Christians) to join him in boycotting the election. I thought he wanted to “defeat destroy” us? Not join us?

    Good post, lee.

  57. Fellows
    it is sooooooooooooooooooo amusing to me that you all think you are answering the things I teach.
    If it is as easy as you all think, wonder why some one does not come on and answer us regularly with your arguments.
    you all have 100,000 post , a virtual treasure trove of argumentation for someone to resource to answer me. Why does no one trout out with this stuff and vanquish the awful Johnny?

    Because we are in a little room here on “NOT ANSWERING” and the little children think they are answering, since none of them really have knowledge enough to get out into the open.
    The draw courage from each other… “great stuff Katie” , “awesome Kathrine” “we must be from the same cloth Katie”, “good one Lee” great stuff Chris”

    and then there is little Nathan. I remember when he was just a trembling little presbyiiii back in oh say 2001 sitting in Mickies with his wife trying to make these tired arguments in person
    Look at him now, 100,000 post and still not brave enough as a presbyterian to come out of the shadows.
    Now Jason when he was learned by us, well he debated 2 presbiiis at one time on LIVE TV
    NAthan if you could get those guys to come back I will gladly meet them in your stead.
    I am pretty sure they wont use the silly arguments that will never see light of day from this website.

    nite little children

  58. WIL said
    Because the CoC use stalking tactics against those who appose them, thus you will have to work to find me, and by doing so take time away from other damaging things you are doing.

    I protect the ones I love from the wolves!

    boy I have heard some funnies

    Those guys from the church of Christ “stalking” people … you guys are just hilarious
    thanks for that Walking in Fear!

  59. WI FEAR says
    Thats because they have dealt with a man who claims to be christian and yet uses Satan’s games to attack them JR. They simply do not have any experience dealing with a wicked man of God!

    Let me see here…. is Walking in fear saying that “wicked men” are able to triumph over all the 100,000 posting fellows here
    Chris has experience Walking in Fear! U and Chris could get Nathan and that should be enough. Three of U and little me?
    or I could send my 15 year old son?
    That would be planning though? so no that won’t work … sooooooooooooooooo could one of our first year men meet with you all?

  60. Ahh, helping us celebrate 100,000 in style, ladies and gentlemen, is Mr. Johnny Robertson. It’s touching that he comes on and throws out his normal tauntbombs in honor of our little milestone. It just wouldn’t be the same to have this celebration without them.

    Mr. Robertson, about your opinion on us or this blog… there was a time when we were concerned by it, but now? Nope.

    As to your comment about this site being a resource, it apparently is, considering how many visits we have each day. From all around the world. Hopefully these are visits by people trapped in the legalistic trap that is the hyperconservative church of Christ, finding some footing in their attempt to break free.

    Hope you get there, too, Mr. R! We continue to pray for you, that you would have an experience on your road to Damascus.

    “Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8:32

  61. Sorry JR the taunts don’t work with me, and you do stalk people showing up at homes etc. Or are you saying you do not show up at peoples homes?

    When you bother someone who does not wish to be bothered at their home by you, it is a form of stalking!

    And again JR if you say one thing and do the opposite you are making a false claim! I’d rather you did it right then use schemes to gain advantages over people. If you are working under God’s will you will prevail without tricks, if not then you won’t or is God no longer in charge?

    I know you think all that oppose you are false teachers and you also have to include CoC teachers in that list also. Or are you walking in fellowship with all other CoC named churches?

    So when are you going to another CoC named church to straighten them out? After all they are using the CoC name falsely are they not since they do not follow proper CoC doctrine? “Right Biblical name” with false doctrine is worse then false doctrine and false name is it not?

    When you stoop to tricks you weaken your message!

    I’d love to say Kudos to James tonight but because I have seen the things you do I have to wonder if he tricked or trapped that man. See how that works? Otherwise I agree that there are many who operate in the gifts who are doing so falsely either because they feel pressure to fit in or because they want some form of personal glory but I also believe gifts or tools of the Holy Spirit do still exist because there is nothing that has said they are gone except for the defense of Paul’s use of the perfect coming and that is wrong teaching.

  62. you heard it here folks right from james mouth.
    i asked about one cup or more during communion.
    he said that which ever way is ok.
    and no coc seperate over this issue.
    is that true?
    not what ive read.
    lee

  63. That was you, lee? I didn’t recognize your voice.

    I noted this over at the new post. He actually seemed to sidestep the question. To admit that churches of Christ have disagreements?!? Oh, the horror! They are supposed to be unified!

    It would be interesting to see what JR would say to the question. JR, any comment?

  64. Come on down to TX, Johnny-I’ll come out of the shadows (where I have actually never hid) 😉

    Gas is too expensive to drive all the way to Virginia.

    Nathan is right-we are still praying for you-that you will find the true love and grace of God, the freedom found in the Truth, and the beauty in the Body of Christ.

  65. I’d love to say James is right and I am sure he would like to think he is right, but he’s not. Unfortunately, we have divided and divided over many issues, and continue to come up with new issues to divide over. It is a pretty sad ordeal, and the faster we become honest and real about it-the sooner we can heal, tear down the walls, unite around Jesus, and share Him with a world in need.

  66. On October 12, 2008 at 8:49 pm walkinginlove Said:

    Sorry JR the taunts don’t work with me, and you do stalk people showing up at homes etc. Or are you saying you do not show up at peoples homes?

  67. On October 12, 2008 at 8:49 pm walkinginlove Said:

    Sorry JR the taunts don’t work with me, and you do stalk people showing up at homes etc. Or are you saying you do not show up at peoples homes?

    can you give me foot note for where you learned this is what “stalking is”

    can I be arrested for coming to some ones house? and knocking on the door and asking to speak to someone

    you guys are like babies

    does my investigation really warrant such ?

    I never knew that just watching folks and commenting on their actual behavior would get so much negative feed back
    you all musssssssssssssssssst really have enjoyed being able to do as you please before I came on the scene

    you can just save all the comments on my “unlawful” activity
    i am going to raise the level even higher as we get all these guys trained and equipped

    Lee we may even find your church

    u all really amaze me on how scared u really are

    a camera just brings you into a frenzy
    uuuuuuuuuuuu a camera
    he has a camera
    watch out
    he is ??????

    load them guns boys he is coming to Leeeeeeeeeeeees church
    how about it Lee
    do I dictate to u?

    I demand that u never advertise on this site where u go to church
    u keep it secret boyyyyyyyyyyyyy

    I may come over there and shine the light on you

    any women rolling in the floor Lee?

    see u tomorrow night guys it will be a surprise what these pentecostals do
    one of yrsss lee

  68. Lee, why do Pentecostal roll around on the floor and stuff? I was raised in this, but I still don’t understand why they jumped pews, ran around the building, fell on the floor, rolled around laughing and stuff……….seems a bit strange to me….

    One of my friends for 25 years use to do this stuff in church….she killed herself by taking an overdose of pain pills this year….

  69. Does anyone even take JR seriously anymore?

    No one is scared of you, Johnny-just fed up with your antics and un-Christlike behavior. Nothing changed when you came on the scene-this is just one more crazy way to fuel your ego, because you think you have some kind of control-I think that is really what the camera issue is about-you don’t trust the Truth in God’s Word enough, so you have to resort to a camera to have control. Otherwise, you would not need to go barging into churches and homes to prove your point-the Bible is sufficient, the Good News can stand alone-but not when it has been distorted or twisted-which is the reason you have to resort to such measures.

    I’ve got nothing to hide down here in TX! 😉

  70. john,
    so does this mean we arent friends now?
    i just wanted to clear up how many cups were required
    in your services.
    hope i didnt make anyone uncomfortable out there in michagan.
    why do you want me to load my gun? do i need to?
    by the way which one?
    youve got me all scared john.
    what with the bright lights shinning on me and all.
    ………so dizzy with all the rolling around……
    hard to focus.
    lighten up john, you think too highly of yourself.
    maybe work on getting james out of those eating places
    that serve beer. { i know hes working on it }
    when you lay down to sleep does jesus tell you “good job john”
    no…….never happens.
    lee

  71. What’s up, lee? Was your call the other night (and the subsequent discussions here) a part of Mr. Robertson’s agenda tonight?

    Give us the scoop.

  72. who knows?
    i must have embarrased him in michigan.
    everyone sitting around the tube {lcd}
    and james gives a wrong answer………
    lee

  73. Avoiding a command by Paul while living under a structure that teaches that the commands must be kept is hardly going to be readable without laughing about the explanation no matter how well articulated it is.

    Secondly he condones what JR is doing, thus I have no reason to read his teachings since he allows his brother to violate what God Hates without correcting him.

    Third some other hard line pattern driven churches see the Holy Kiss as important in keep the commands, so they are in effect picking from the menu just like any other church group!

  74. randy ,
    i dont know why i like rolling on the floor an barking and laughing and dancing and running and jumping and falling and………….sorry lost my train of thought.
    must be the pain pills kicking in.
    what a maroon….{bugs bunny}
    lee

  75. WIL, I think it’s a bit unfair to say Corey condones what Johnny does, without explaining what you mean by “what Johnny does”. If you mean that they teach things alike, they probably do agree upon most issues, if you are referring to the tactics Johnny and crew use, like provoking people to anger, name calling, filming people for personal gain, …to mention a few….I don’t know if Corey agrees with this or not….and honestly don’t care if he does or doesn’t……..I happen to agree with much of what Johnny teaches….

  76. churchesofchrist I have no power to speak to JR or his crew, to them I am not a brother and by their fruits they are not one to me either, they have no accountability over them at all and no one strong enough in their body to speak balance over them. Their doctrine has become their God and failing that doctrine means damnation. The ONLY ones who have any ability to speak into them are other CoC churches, if they do not do it and they know it is happening then they are aiding them by doing nothing. They are choosing to allow an evil to be done to advance the Kingdom, it is no different then some churches who had ties to Government using their power to crush others who saw things differently. Evil is evil, no matter how Godly the cause is! I just watched a historical document about the sacking of Jerusalem where people who called themselves Christians killed 30,000 men women and children who were Islamic. Those sins came back to us on 9-11!

    If other CoC churches are ok with JRs tactics that try and cause someone to stumble so they can capture it for proof they are right the then they should publicly say so, and let their believers decide in debate if God is being honored by twisting the truth to fit the circumstances.

    I have the things I saw on tape from his own mouth, it is clear to me what he is doing and why.

    The statement he made about destroying others is true, it was later wrapped around Bible verses to make it seem less evil then it really was, but he has shown his fruits on this blog and on his show, he has told callers why he does things in defense and in the same show prove with his own joyous attitude that he was pleased to catch another of God’s creations in a fall, and then go and show it on TV to prove he is right when people who are NONBELIEVERS see it also?!?!?!?!?! After those nonbelievers get finished watching the Spiritual Jerry Springer Show how are they to be reached for Christ? Tell me, how, they are not going to have a bible study with a book they consider a fable at best and a lie at worst, they are going to go to hell and it will be our hands and voices that drove them there!

    This is not about God or doctrine it is about proving they are right at all costs! And they will dance as close to Cesar’s laws as they can and do everything they can do tempt those who are still on milk to sin!

    Frankly when Paul talked about meat and how we should agree with our brother who is weak in that area when we are together at an unbelievers house he was talking about a principle that tells me that we need to not create a stumbling block for others to be tripped up on just so we could exorcise our freedom. This principle that caused him to have Timothy circumcised after the council clearly said gentiles did not have to do so was to allow them to reach the Jews. Under today’s teachings by all denominations including the CoC denomination Timothy would never give up his rights, and if he was a CoC he would laugh at the jews over it!

    Let’s see the CoC doctrine on stumbling blocks! It’s in the Bible but it is not in the CoC, the CoC seem to be about exorcising their freedom to create a stumbling block, if I were new to a belief in Christ and I saw this mess I would have walked away in disgust over it and never returned, and I am sure there will be a gleeful comment to this, but the fact is God’s elite is now using themselves as stumbling blocks to cause others to fall away, is that the job of a christian to cut down the number of people who go to heaven because there isn’t enough room for all that God would have come to him?

    If we were really all God’s people we would all be down at the river being baptized under Acts 2:38 no matter if we believed it or not to take away a stumbling block, but then again if Acts 2:38 had been presented as a brother coming to another seeking help on a matter that was causing them to stumble they might have been listened to.

    But now we are at war, Jesus when acused of being of the Devil talked about a kingdom at war with itself not standing, only Satan heard this it seems! But we solve this simply by declaring others to be non-christians and lay a brick on the stumbling block wall, those called non-christians fire back and lay another brick in the wall. Since we are right about you not being a christian we take joy that one of your side is tripped up laying several more stones, we appeal to Caesar in the fight laying more stones. All the while the true unbelievers who do not think God exists watches the show and laughs while hardening their hearts to the Good News that no-one is teaching because we are to busy building better ways to deliver more stones to the stumbling block wall. And all the while many weaker brothers begin to have their love of many will grow cold because of it while we build our spiritual Great Wall of China!

    And yes my hands are just as guilty and like Paul I am the chief of sinners! The exorcise of our freedom is going to bring down many who would have not fallen away otherwise, but its ok because they were going to fall away anyway right or they were false followers so they were already doomed? I mean after all since everything is already known we can not effect how things will turn out either positively or negatively?

    Westboro has doomed many homosexuals to hell by their acts of Evil, whom will we doom?

  77. 2 Cor 3We put no stumbling block in anyone’s path, so that our ministry will not be discredited.

    If you do everything else listed in these passages but have created a stumbling block you have failed!

    4Rather, as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: in great endurance; in troubles, hardships and distresses; 5in beatings, imprisonments and riots; in hard work, sleepless nights and hunger; 6in purity, understanding, patience and kindness; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love; 7in truthful speech and in the power of God; with weapons of righteousness in the right hand and in the left; 8through glory and dishonor, bad report and good report; genuine, yet regarded as impostors; 9known, yet regarded as unknown; dying, and yet we live on; beaten, and yet not killed; 10sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; poor, yet making many rich; having nothing, and yet possessing everything.

    11We have spoken freely to you, Corinthians, and opened wide our hearts to you. 12We are not withholding our affection from you, but you are withholding yours from us. 13As a fair exchange—I speak as to my children—open wide your hearts also.

  78. WIL, we get mad when Johnny tells it as he understands it, but then we turn around and do the same thing. If we have a right to blast Johnny for what we deem as evil doing, then he has that same right too.

    Even if Johnny toned it down and came across as more loving, he still would hold to the same teachings and still teach against denominationalism. I do think his approach turns more people away than it attracts….

  79. i dont talk to johnny, i said we shouldnt talk………………………
    i think thats talking isnt it.
    in your effort to distance yourself you show how close you are.
    how very sad for you.
    shine the light john, shine the light!
    throw out the lifeline, randy is getting too far away john.
    btw john, why is it you suppose that god in his providence decided to wait all these years to send a messenger such as yourself to show us the true light?
    why didnt he provide someone to tell all the good people who served him with all they knew to do all their lives? he let them die not knowing any better?
    dont kid yourself john, god has nothing to do with your group. you are a pharasee and no more.
    lee

    lee

  80. Lee where is this demon possessed church u go to?
    I command u not to tell us.
    we can see who controls whom on here.
    I control the boys in the dark room.
    You will not let anyone know where you go.
    now sit down Lee

  81. Lee did you hear me?
    you may roll around and make baby noises but you will not tell where this all happens.

    It is nice to see you all ashamed of your churches

    I am making a commercial as we speak to give everyone a chance to participate in the
    “excellent”
    Php 1:10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;

    church you read of in the Bible that meets on 120 American Legion blvd in Danville

    man it is so nice to be in Jesus church, the one in the Bible so you don’t have to hide your where abouts

    come on over Lee… we meet just behind the Dutch shopping center

    everyone over here knows where we are

    no secret

    LEE YOU WILL NOT TELL ANYONE WHERE YOU WORSHIP
    FEAR JOHNNY AND HIS CAMERA

    ACT LIKE NATHAN AND HIS SECRET CREW

    DO NOT BE LIKE JESUS

    BE LIKE THOSE WHO CAME FOR HIM UNDER COVER of darkness

    Lu 22:53 When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.

    this is your hour Lee

    Now if you get upset go ahead and call in we got your number
    we will answer u

    James didnt have trouble with you
    he just did not see what point you were trying to make
    we have no problem with one cup people
    they have a problem with us
    you may all drink from one cup if you please but we are not bound by that soooooooooooooo what was the point

    DO NOT TELL WHERE YOUR secret cult meeting place is LEE
    I COMMAND IT

  82. lee said
    why didnt he provide someone to tell all the good people who served him with all they knew to do all their lives? he let them die not knowing any better?

    Jesus said
    2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    YOU HAVE THE LIGHT LEE
    you just reject it to keep your tradition in the roll around church where baby talk is your proof of being powerful.

    POWERFUL? Scared to tell what church you are in

  83. so……. were not friends?
    im trying to talk to my friend john
    “someone stop that baby from crying”
    dont get so upset john ….. everyone knows what a good pharasee you are……..but just so everyone can see from a distance.go buy a bigger phylacterie

  84. Sad thing JR is your own words are those that will come back on that great a terrible day.

    Man made traditions like, ignoring that the New Covenant came when the veal was torn, like a church building is not authorized much less the name on it yet it is a matter of salvation.

    What is that, man made truth that is a lie but because you have been taught that your doctrine is handed down from those in Acts you can not see the truth, you are blinded worse then those you are trying to correct and by your actions you are making sure they will not change and yet God clearly showed examples of commands being broken to remove stumbling blocks and you can’t follow that because you are so sure you are the only ones who are following the word and that so few will make it that you have to help them fail.

    That love of the truth you speak you do not even have yourself, you love your doctrine as all others love theirs but you condemn others to hell over it and that hypocritical judgment will be the thing that sends you into the flames with no excuse because you have been shown the error and you fail to see it as truth.

    Remember JR there will be no excuse for it as you are a teacher and will be held accountable in double for your teachings!

  85. james, dont dispute johns recollection of where old mt cross road is.
    john didnt like that at all.
    i dont think he respects you much james.
    careful or you will be helping out norm fields, where ever he is.
    we know who runs things.
    lee

  86. Music, can you even imagine if those first church meetings had taken up Jewish music, I wonder how long it would have taken for them to be stoned for doing something that was authorized to only certain people in the Jewish faith?

    Show up at the temple with their musical instruments and try and play and sing and in about 30 seconds they would be done and arrested or killed outright.

    I’m no expert in old Jewish practices but it seems that they were not going to live long trying to play music.

    Later as they were persecuted they would not want to make much noise to protect those who were meeting.

    Without seeing the situation for what it really was, you can’t really reason properly on why they were doing what they were doing.

  87. Once again Jr you use a passage incorrectly!

    Acts 17:16While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols. 17So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there. 18A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” Others remarked, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.” They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.

    In the above he is not contending with others who believe in Christ but people who did not believe in Christ, your use of this by creating a loophole of claiming others as non-christian does not excuse the abuse of the passage to further your own denominational doctrine!

    Preaching the Good News about Jesus and the resurrection you can do in the marketplace, but you do not do it, you instead find faults in others, this is not what Paul was doing to other christian believers in that passage, there are no other people who acknowledge Christ in that passage!

    You are talking horrendous liberties with this scripture! If another non CoC denominational teacher were doing the same thing you would be all over them about it!

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