Watched “What Does the Bible Say?”, tonight, and feel like I need to respond, since words written on this blog were brought up.
On his broadcast, hyperconservative church of Christ TV host Johnny Robertson showed a quote from Chris Knight lifted from this blog and inferred that he didn’t say that he was wanting to “defeat destroy” those who disagreed with him.
Let me lay it all out for anyone who is interested, and I’ll let you, the reader, decide what the truth of the situation is.
This is what Mr. Robertson said on his broadcast:
Now actually what I said on the website [referring to this blog] is I put a Scripture that you might recognize, I doubt that Chris would… I actually was presenting 2 Corinthians chapter 10 verse 4…”
Then Mr. Robertson goes on to read that verse. Mr. Robertson continues.
What I was actually referring to is that it is my job to actually pull down, to actually destroy, that’s the idea here – pulling down strongholds… that is, rendering them ineffective, bringing them down… I’m not going to go over there and get involved in a physical display…
Maybe that is what you were “actually referring to”, Mr. Robertson, but you did NOT put that passage of Scripture up until after you made the initial comment. You put it up more than 24 hours after you made the initial comment.
Here is what Mr. Robertson said [exact quote] on June 11, 2008 at 9:36 AM:
Here is what yu need to reckon nathan
we dont determine our actions by your reckoning
you are a false teacher and we see everything opposite of youSo dont think we care about your visionary comments
we are here to defeat destroy you and uplift truth
Jesus would call you a hypocrite for not assembling with baptist over baptism mode and organization
when it is all “methodology”petty petty petty
You can find the whole conversation right here.
And you can see that Mr. Robertson didn’t mention 2 Corinthians 10. It’s nowhere on that page. In fact, the only time 2 Corinthians is mentioned at all, is when I quoted 2 Corinthians three posts down.
“We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.” (2 Corinthians 5:20)
The next day, Mr. Robertson did try and recover from this mind-blowing statement. This is where he mentions 2 Corinthians 10, and you can see it here. We discussed the situation again, and you can see that conversation here.
Does he apologize? Does he say he regrets the way he spoke? No. He never shows Christlike humility and admits that he had been wrong. He just tries to justify his behavior. What does Scripture say about how Christians are supposed to behave when a mistake like this has been made?
“Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.” James 5:16
“Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.” Philippians 2:3-4
You are God’s chosen race, his saints; he loves you, and you should be clothed in sincere compassion, in kindness and humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with one another; forgive each other as soon as a quarrel begins. The Lord has forgiven you; now you must do the same. Colossians 3:12-13
Tonight on his broadcast, Mr. Robertson made the point that he is not interested in a physical battle with those he opposes.
Mr. Robertson, I really hope that this is true, and I have no reason to think that it is not. I’ve heard from your acolytes that you are a very kind and generous man off the screen. That’s great. But you’ve never made this situation right. Tonight, on your program, you could have, but you were still being defensive.
My offer to forget about this statement is still open.
And finally Mr. Robertson, you are welcome to use words written on this blog on your program, but if you do so, please be accurate in what you say.
Answering the Church of Christ 
After tonight’s show, someone posted the following comment to my blog. I’m reposting it here, because whoever it was who left it said true words indeed…
===============
The verses that seem to come to the forefront of my mind when I hear Robertson are found in Luke 18:9-14, which says “And he spake this parable unto certain which TRUSTED IN THEMSELVES that they were righteous, AND DESPISED OTHERS: Two men went up unto the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.”
===============
Following the e-mails that came in I watched Robertson’s show and caught him talking about me referencing his “defeat destroy” proclamation.
The man can certainly twist and take out of context with the best of them.
Thank you, Nathan, for clarifying what Robertson neglected to discuss.
So I watched the show, especially the recorded “sermon” from this morning. And I didn’t see how Johnny Robertson was doing anything but “trusting in himself” and especially “despising others”.
In fact, based on what I saw tonight, the entire program was dedicated 100% to attacking other people while making his own cult out to be the ones “victimized”.
I didn’t see any serious discussion of the Bible at all.
And we are still awaiting an answer from Johnny Robertson regarding my question about Sempronius and the Forty Martyrs of Sebaste.
Also Johny tries to take words like “stir up” and twist them into something they don’t mean. To “stir up” doesn’t mean to be a jerk like Johnny. Johnny goes around attacking christians that are dedicated to Christ and tries to show that they fall short from God. Johnny is the one who isn’t being honest because he along with every other human on this earth falls short. Johnny made himself and those that attend there seem like they were squeaky clean, God tells us we are all sinners. Obviously Johnny sins in his arrogance and judgement on others and Johnny tries to build himself up more than he does God. If Johnny cares so much for other peoples soul then why doesn’t he sit down with the people he thinks are so lost one on one instead of bringing a camera knowing he is doing it only to try to make them angry by being arrogant and sarcastic. Doing these things doesn’t bring the true message about who Christ is or about His love and compassion. Jesus spoke the word of God and showed LOVE and MERCY to people and people came to Him to listen and believe. You were right Nathan when you said before that Johnny tries to make others hate him because he thinks that’s what shows he is a christian and makes him right with God, and there is so much wrong with that.
This goes back to the discussion we were having with TD the other day about “remaining faithful”. I’m still hoping he’ll give a definition of what that means. Certainly he can quote Scripture to show how he has come to the conclusions he has come to, but I want to know his thoughts on the subject.
Or JR, or faithful, or any of these guys. What does it mean to “remain faithful”?
Nathan, it is every bit as possible to “remain faithful” as it is to “remain sinless”.
Meaning that it is im-possible!
I must say, Robertson’s pre-recorded “sermon” tonight was a real eye-opener, so far as what goes on during one of their regular services is concerned. The man is obsessed with following laws and regulations, making that the determining factor in how justified we are in the eyes of God.
And if anyone attempts to counter what Robertson and his followers are doing with scripture or sound wisdom, his and their automatic response is to attack that person, without even bothering to question whether that person might have a very good point.
He has faith in himself. His followers put their faith in Johnny Robertson, not in God. Maybe that’s what it means to “remain faithful”. It’s not being faithful to God that matters in the minds of people like Mitch/”faithful” and T.D., but remaining faithful to Johnny Robertson.
Am I wrong in that assessment? If so, how am I wrong?
Is Johnny Robertson the god of the local “Church of Christ”?
And also Johnny tried to use an example that someone would want him to tell them if a restaurant served food that was bad and would make them sick. Of course people should know if it was bad, but told in a proper way, but I would not want someone to tell me a restaurant has bad food if it isn’t true and I missed out on the really good food that is there, which for church that would be missing good spiritual food. And I would not want Johnnys advice at all on what a good church is. To Johnny all other churches besides the one he is at are bad and that is not true, and for him to say this shows the church he is at is not honest and does not speak the truth and that is not a good church to go to.
I went to a friends house last night to see what Mr. Robertson had to say on his TV broadcast- wasnt sure what he was teaching…seemed to be an attack on Chris, but I didnt watch much ( 10 minutes at most ) so I could be wrong.
The examples Johnny uses really only backfire on him. To also use a pedifile as an example actually shows how damaging Johnny can be to those he is fALSELY accusing. When a person or people accuse a someone of being a pedifile who is not one and is a good person can ruin people, families, and lives. Which to fALSELY accuse a good christian or christian church the way in which Johnny does with some pastors and churches he is trying to ruin people and their lives that have dedicated their lives to Christ. Although Johnny isn’t as successful in what he is trying to do as he thinks. Johnny is not caring about peoples souls, Johnny cares about thinking he is building Johnny up not God.
John said:
“Here is what yu need to reckon nathan
we dont determine our actions by your reckoning
you are a false teacher and we see everything opposite of you”
So Nathan I did not realize you did not believe that Jesus was the Son of God? Hmm or could it be that John does not? 😉 Or could it be that once again the enemy of us all has pulled the wool over John’s eyes into thinking that everyone is 100% opposite of what he believes to be true?
The sad part is that we all believe some of the same things, perhaps a focus on what we agree on might allow a better understanding of what we differ on, at least the proper perspectives could be maintained.
When Johnny and others like him obviously FALSELY accuse christian people and christian churches of being bad churches and to say that the church Johnny is at and the people there live by the laws so perfect, they are lying and are sinning. We should try to keep the laws but being people we will ALL still sin. And they show they are ignorant to this and show they choose to ignore the bible when Jesus tells us we are all sinners, which sin is not only by action but also comes from in the heart, in which ALL have sinned and will sin in both ways and Johnny and others like him cannot exclude themselves from sin and say they always keep all the laws. The command we are given that says we should love one another, which we All have broken and will break and for someone to say that they haven’t and won’t they would be lying. In breaking this one command one has broken them all. When Johnny says he wants to “tear down another person” he is breaking the law.
“You shall not bear false witness against you neighbor.”
“You shall not circulate a false report. Do not put your hand with the wicked and be a false witness.”
“He who speaks truth declares righteousness, But a false witness, deceit.”
“A faithful witness does not lie, But a false witness will utter lies.”
“A false witness will not go unpunished, And he who speaks lies will not escape.”
“A false witness will not go unpunished , And he who speaks lies will perish.”
“For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murderers, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blsasphemies.”
“Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “you shall not commit adultry,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear fasle witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilment of law.”
Ahem…
Submitted for your approval.
If it weren’t for the fact that someone could have been killed, I would have found this story to be almost funny.
I guess thats water under the bridge now, seeing he has been forgiven, saved and all……….right ?
So Johnny just keeps moving right along in his sinful nature. Johnny looks down on others when it is obvious he has broken and is still breaking the commandments. So, Johnny has attempted murder on another person, he has been a thief, he is a blasphemer of God and His grace and His Son, he judges other people, he bears false witness against other people, he is arrogant, and in all he is a liar. Looks like this shows who is really the “bottom of the barrel.”
That might be sensational news if he was running for president but come on now…a mistake made 30 years ago, time served and we assume forgiveness asked for and granted should be left in the past. Leave the attempt to dredge up old faults and restituted crimes to the demons.
I hope he truly did ask for forgiveness for the crimes he committed. But I think by the way he acts in his arrogance toward others and continues to try to harm others just in a differnt way for his own gain today shows that maybe not too much has changed in his heart for the better.
Besides this is not something we have done to Johnny, by his own actions he brings this on himself. Johnny should know there are consequences for actions. You reap what you sew.
Rick,
We’ve all made mistakes in life. I’ll be the first to admit that I have too.
That’s not what we should judge a person by. What really matters is, how willing is that person to move on, and grow into something more and better that God wants for us to become.
Isn’t that the real evidence of our salvation? That we know we are forgiven by God and so we can forgive ourselves, and not be stuck at wherever we happen to be?
The only alternative to that is to stay the same, remain stagnant, and to not even try to grow past our carnal nature. By human effort this is impossible. But with Christ all things are possible, even such a thing as this.
To stubbornly insist on adhering to that fallen nature, and then to hurt people with it is bad enough. But to justify hurting others in the name of the Christ Who came to heal and set us free… WHERE is the evidence of salvation in that?!
Rick, I could have done worse with what I’m sitting on about Johnny Robertson. Much worse. But now’s not the time for that…
I do believe that in light of his character, and how degenerate he is given how he blatantly lies about people and actively seeks to “defeat destroy” them (his words, not mine), that it would be a wise thing to draw some attention to this episode from Robertson’s past, as evidence of what he has already gone to prison for showing the world what he is capable of doing.
The cold hard facts of the situation kind of demand that there be no ignorance in this matter.
Let me phrase it another way, just ‘cuz it sprang to mind right after I hit the “Submit” button:
In what way has Johnny Robertson demonstrated to us that he is no longer willing to pull a gun on someone who stands in his way?
Can we trust the man who a few weeks ago brazenly declared that he was out to “defeat destroy you”, to have enough conscience to withhold from doing that? Has Robertson grown past that part of his nature?
Is it worth overlooking the possibility that he hasn’t?
Well I suppose the question of whether or not if he has developed a changed character from his past is relevant. I guess I was honing in on dredging up past faults for the sake of attacking someone. You know the old adage, “do unto others as you would want them to do unto you”. His actions in the present rather than those of 30 years ago just seemed more relevant to me. Obviously if he has not learned and changed from his past mistakes and instead continues in similar actions it is disheartening and sad.
I would encourage you to proceed with a different spirit and attitude than that of Johnny. We don’t need others following the path of spiteful investigations to dig up bones out of the closet to use for the purpose of attacking others.
I understand where you’re coming from, Rick. Honestly, brother.
But I’ve also had to deal with the proverbial “rattlesnake in the mailbox” more than a few times in my life, too. If I’m exerting overly-due caution, it’s only ‘cuz it’s coming from experience.
I agree with Rick – let the past die and lets live in the here and now. We have all made mistakes in the past. Can we even judge Johnny based upon what we see a few hours each week? Maybe we should get brave enough and go visit him at their church in Martinsville one Sunday. Let’s see who will put their walk with their talk. Pick a Sunday – set a date, and lets see who will go see if Johnny is like he is on TV. We could even set a date on our emails and suprise them there if you like, but I rather just show them we can back out talk with our walk. We should at least visit them before making Judgements ipon them/Johnny…
I think Chris would, but will “Truth”, “Walkinginlove”, Lee, and Rick be game ?? What will it hurt for us to go there and see if he is what some think him to be ??
Rick, I had the exact same thoughts and e-mailed Chris with my concerns. I definitely don’t think he was doing it out of spite.
The past is the past and we have all made mistakes. The important thing is that we learn from them. I would hope that he has matured and grown beyond all of this-and although everything I have “seen” has shown his lack of maturity and arrogance toward others by his remarks and attacks-I think there is some sincerity in there somewhere-I just wish he would show it more often and surrender his agenda to God’s will.
randy,
yes i can judge him……..
for by your words you shall be justified and
by your words you shall be condemned.
the upstanding gentleman in question might accidently
make an off color comment,
this time in my presence.
that wouldnt work out well for either of us.
lee
I understand too that the things in our past should remain in the past. Although they can follow us when we don’t grow from them and continue to act in the same kind of manner. You can see why people need the grace of God to forgive them. Because of the grace God has given us in our faith we should be growing with Christ in us. And the more we grow the more it will show.
This just shows that to think that works will save us it is impossible. It is only Gods grace and mercy that can save any of us.
Let us talk about grace for just a moment. Because it is only by the grace of God that we are forgiven of all our trespasses, and can stand justified in His sight.
Thirty years ago, Johnny Robertson was a very naughty little boy. So naughty in fact, that he could have not only killed an innocent storekeeper, but have also killed himself and four other people at least. All because of money.
Is Johnny Robertson’s temporal punishment (2 years in prison, another 3 on probation) enough to justify him in the sight of God after what he did? Did he have to suffer prison in order to be forgiven by God?
I hope not. Earthly justice is meant to be inescapable. How thankful we should be that God’s mercy and grace is inescapable! And that He gives it to all who ask for it. That His grace has purchased us from the punishment we deserve should be enough to humble all of us.
Why then does Johnny Robertson insist on imprisoning other people now, thirty years later, with the bars and chains of legalism, before they can believe that they can be saved? Does he know what salvation is at all, or does his time in prison make him believe that he must work and merit “time off for good behavior”?
If that is not a vicious cycle, then I don’t know what is.
You make understandable points Chris and I hope you do not take my comments as judgmental. I personally think anyone who encounters Johnny should be cautious and the best defense in dealing with someone who desires to “destroy” you is to be knowledgeable of their character and capabilities. For that reason I appreciate your cautious approach. Just be careful my friend 🙂
LOL.. as to me visiting Johnny’s church on a Sunday..hell will probably freeze over before that happens 🙂
I can see it now in big bold letters on “What Does the Bible Say”.. Prominent (it would probably be “notorious” but I can dream can’t I).. Prominent Baptist preacher comes over to the “truth” and visits the church of Christ.
Johnny doesn’t need that publicity!
I don’t believe I want to go either. I can imagine what Johnny would try to make of that if we did.
I’d do it.
Can’t be worse than the snake-handlers were.
rofl
Rick,
I’m not kidding about that.
Seriously.
Long story. I’ll tell ya sometime 🙂
Can’t wait..I’ll hold you to it.
Interesting how our “friends” have not been involving themselves in these discussions today. We haven’t heard from them since our day of prayer.
I hope that our prayers for them have been effective.
It may be that instead of spending time this week rebutting on the internet they are instead out in the community. Mark, one of the guys in training, has been popping up at our members homes in the past few days.
I have a feeling they are more effective that way. With the exception of Norm Fields, they really don’t seem to have come close to mastering the online dialogue thing.
On August 4, 2008 at 10:40 pm rick Said:
It may be that instead of spending time this week rebutting on the internet they are instead out in the community. Mark, one of the guys in training, has been popping up at our members homes in the past few days.
– this is also part of the schooling – they are required to put in so many hours on the street each week.
Visiting John’s Church would serve no good purpose, frankly you and I would not be welcome because we see the scriptures differently and are considered false prophets.
Secondly I have duties that the Church I attend need me for on Sundays, no I do not preach btw.
Thirdly I already know John is a kind man when he is not in a confrontational mode. I watched him willing to meet a lady who wanted to be baptized at any time day or night to see that it was done. That is not an action of an unkind man and frankly it is very interesting to see him not under the control of the reaping of what he has sown. It is like a Jekyll and Hide sort of personality, as long as you subscribe to his beliefs you are worthy to go the extra mile for and treat well, if not you are a false prophet worthy of destruction.
As for the old news, that is what it is, we have all failed and come short of the glory of the Lord, and all short comings are paid by the same wage and that is death. Thankfully our debts are forgiven if we also have forgiven others their debts!
“It is like a Jekyll and Hide sort of personality, as long as you subscribe to his beliefs you are worthy to go the extra mile for and treat well, if not you are a false prophet worthy of destruction”
– you may be right about this
“john is a kind man”
what kind?
lee
Lee LOL while that is a witty comment I stand by my statement, he is selectively kind to be sure but he is willing to help others who are part of his body of believers. And those who submit to their teachings as being the truth.
There are in fact two Johnny R’s!
Youre wrong, he helps people that aren’t even in the church of Christ……Jackie Poe had one lady there who needed a place to go and needed a way to move her things………Johnny and James helped her pack up and then Jackie got wind of it …and then decided to help her….only after he found out Johnny and James were helping her. Maybe you are partly right but not completely
I think part of the problem is that when you face people on a TV show, or radio, or even on the internet, it’s much easier to see their bad side. Especially if the person in question is discussing something controversial, and even more so if they are combatative in the way they discuss it.
Look at how many people despise Rush Limbaugh or Bill O’Brian, or Bill Maher. And if you went out to dinner with them, you might find them to be just fine. I would guess the same would be true of JR. If you could get him to discuss something not related to the doctrine he teaches, like football or the Olympics, he’d probably be an interesting person.
But, yeah, the moment the conversation turned to doctrine, the conversation would probably go downhill.
nathan,
ck your email
I’d still like to know if Robertson or Oldfield or any other representative of the “Church of Christ” can respond to my question for them pertaining to the Forty Martyrs of Sebaste…
Something Johnny Robertson and his cult cannot respond to
But they are more than welcome to try.
“On August 6, 2008 at 8:18 am churchesofChrist Said:
Youre wrong, he helps people that aren’t even in the church of Christ……Jackie Poe had one lady there who needed a place to go and needed a way to move her things………Johnny and James helped her pack up and then Jackie got wind of it …and then decided to help her….only after he found out Johnny and James were helping her. Maybe you are partly right but not completely”
Actually I would have to discount this example simply because of the motivation to cause harm to the gentleman names Poe might be a factor. When he helps a church leader not in his Church who does not agree with him then you have a real case and John will be fully practicing Love of a neighbor. The example of the Samaritan would apply if he did that. And I agree that we only know part of John’s true nature and will do so until Christ’s return to judge us all.
If we haven’t heard much from Robertson and his gang, it’s because they’ve apparently been busy “undercover” looking at little girls’ panties in some church around here and Robertson is going to broadcast it on Martinsville television tonight.
(I’m sure he hated every moment of it.)
That’s what he announced earlier this afternoon on WGSR, anyway…
Chris do you never get tired of making yourself look stupid?
Okay, faithful, please explain how that sort of comment is helpful at all. And then, please explain how it is Christlike at all.
And by the way, you should remember that old expression about the dangers of living in a dwelling made of an inorganic product of fusion which has been cooled to a rigid condition without crystallizing while suffering from a propensity to hurl naturally occurring aggregate of minerals and/or mineraloids.
It’s very appropriate in this situation.
“Chris do you never get tired of making yourself look stupid?”
Not at all.
I’ve been doing it all my life. And I’m very good at it! 😛
I learned a long time ago that the best way to take life seriously, is not to take it too seriously and don’t take yourself too serious at all.
It just happens that in the case of Johnny Robertson announcing that he has video of little girls in their panties, that I am absolutely correct.
And it apparently galls you to no end that one as I have made foolishness of your alleged wisdom.
faithful,
Would you like to share, for those of us who didn’t watch JR tonight in Martinsville, what JR’s talking about?
faithful/Mitch (AKA “studyjesus” on YouTube) has also posted this new video…
When I left a comment on it earlier today, he referred to me as “the village idiot”.
I find it rather odd that someone with the YouTube screenname “studyjesus” would declare anyone to be a “village idiot”. But maybe that’s just me…
Later on Mitch/faithful/studyjesus deleted all comments on this rather ridiculous video, which claims that a Baptist preacher in Forsyth County is “running away” from a debate with James Oldfield.
I have to wonder if Oldfield even invited Freeman for a “debate” at all.
And even if Oldfield did, can any sane and rational person blame Freeman for disregarding Oldfield and his bunch as a bunch of troublemakers, and not worth spending time on?
It just happens that in the case of Johnny Robertson announcing that he has video of little girls in their panties, that I am absolutely correct.
On August 6, 2008 at 10:41 pm answeringchurchofchrist Said:
faithful,
Would you like to share, for those of us who didn’t watch JR tonight in Martinsville, what JR’s talking about?
– ok…I’m a bit lost on this…so what is this about ??
Well the quality of the video leaves much to be desired, but if what Robertson had Charles Roark run on WGSR yesterday afternoon was any indication…
Johnny Robertson’s is claiming that something about as innocuous as a ballet recital or a liturgical dance is now akin to a cabaret/striptease act.
I did take Chris’s comments off the page. I will not put profanity on my page.
Johnny is talkng about a tv clip from a church in Kernersville that had yound girls “praise dancing ” and dreesed very revealing
Chris if we’re not worth spending time on , why do you keep spending time on us? Hypocrite
faithless,
have you checked to see if there is enough
money in the preacher fund to pay me.
remember its all about budgeting.
lee
faithful,
You gotta be kidding.
That’s amazing, if it’s true – that JR was concerned about girls dancing liturgical dance.
Please, PLEASE post the video on your “studyjesus” site so we can all see what was so offensive about these Kernersville girls.
nathan ck your email
faithful/Mitch is lying, and he knows it.
I did not use profanity at all in my comments to his video.
I even have the record of what I posted. The gist of it was two verses of scripture.
There was no profanity whatsoever.
faithful, I would rather be a “village idiot” as you called me, than be the town liar.
As I said, the quality of the video was very poor, but I could not see anything more revealing than I have seen in other praise/worship dance before.
As for why I’m spending time taking on your cult, faithful/Mitch: I consider it my civic duty to make sure that information about your so-called “church” is healthily available, so that those who really are called to serve the Lord will have it on file that your gang is a bunch of, well… loons, that they don’t have to bother with.
I’m wasting my time with you so that real and devout followers of Christ don’t have to waste their own.
Mitch/faithful probably thinks that the Olympics shouldn’t be broadcast either, because some of its events feature women in (gasp!) swimsuits and leotards.
Seriously folks, what Robertson’s crude video depicted last night was no worse than that.
On August 7, 2008 at 8:32 am Chris Knight Said:
Mitch/faithful probably thinks that the Olympics shouldn’t be broadcast either, because some of its events feature women in (gasp!) swimsuits and leotards.
Seriously folks, what Robertson’s crude video depicted last night was no worse than that
– Chris, you may be right about this…ask them their take on nudity…you may be suprised. Was Peter naked once in the bible ?? Or was he just with a shirt on and still called naked??
I meant was Peter shirtless and called naked?? Were Adam and Eve called naked when they had bathing suit covers on ?? You might be suprised…
It’s also very likely that Jesus was completely naked as He hung on the cross. We are told that they took His clothes away from Him.
I dont deny that…seems He may have been
churchesofChrist, I used to attend a nondenominational church in this area that could be considered extremely conservative. We’re talking about a church that encourages its young people to not kiss their boyfriends/girlfriends until their wedding day.
This church is also very enthusiastic about its members doing with what the Lord has given them to give praise and glory to Him. One of the things that goes on there is liturgical/praise dancing.
What I saw in Robertson’s video last night was not really any different from the dancing that I’ve seen in this church. And if they don’t have a problem with it, as “conservative” as they are, then I don’t see why any normal person would be offended by whatever Robertson is claiming is in his video, either.
This begs the question – does anything go in worship? Are there any guidelines when in church ? Can we have a jazz band and smoking are in church ? How about a mosh-pit with some thrash metal ( oops, we already have this, my bad ) My point is – where is the standard ( and please note, I am not promoting pattern theology ) but surely we must not allow everything and anything. I was raised in a movement where it’s common place for ladies to fall out in the floor ( what they called slain in the Spirit ) and often their dresses would rise up requiring someone to throw a jacket or something over their legs. I have seen the jumping and dancing quite a bit too Chris… matter of fact, my loud-heavy-up beat drumming seemed to help them get into this praise dancing frenzy. Have you noticed that once the music dies down, so does the Spirit….or what they call the Spirit…anyways, I have seen things that I found to be off the wall and one is this “praise dancing” where ladies jump around and allow themselves to fall out on the church floor with their dresses on…..needing a cover on their legs….doesn’t quite seem Spiritual to me….
I once went to a church that claimed they are the only church who spoke the truth of God and bashed all other churches/denominations. They claimed to be the only church who spoke the truth of God and claimed they were the only ones who were saved and have the Holy Ghost because they had evidence of speaking in tongues, which to them meant to make a bunch of weird sounds and jibber jabber and sometimes run around the sanctuary and fall down on the floor sometimes shaking or awkwardly twisting almost distorting their bodies. To me that did not look like anything from God, it actually seemed to look somewhat evil. What they were doing seemed more like chaos and God says He is not the author of confusion. In the bible God gives an order to which those who truly speak in tongues should follow. I believe what they were doing and teaching was not only false but also disrespectful to God and the word of God. God tells us all things should be done decently and in order. I believe there is nothing wrong with with praising God by singing praises to God along with music, raising ones hands, clapping hands, or dancing as long as it is done decently and in order. I don’t see anything wrong with someone wearing a ballet outfit to dance. My niece is a dancer. She has danced since she was four yrs. old, and is very talented by the way, I have never seen anything wrong with any of the outfits she has worn to perform and dance in. Once they performed a dance to the song amazing grace and it was one of the best and most beautiful dances I had ever seen.
Well, I don’t think that a worship service needs to look like the church scene in The Blues Brothers, lol! But the way I look at it, congregations of believers should examine their own consciences and they adhere to the scriptural instructions for worship, and then proceed to worship as best they understand it. This doesn’t mean that worship at churches is going to be uniform throughout though. But we should respect the freedom that God has given each of us to pursue Him, as I said, as best we can possibly understand what it means to pursue Him in this earthly life.
That’s why denominations are a good thing (in addition to it being argued that they are biblical, see the seven churches of Revelation). Denominations prove that none of us have the market cornered on a perfect understanding of God. And any so-called “church” that does claim to have that, to the point that it attacks others, is plainly a false church that is not of Christ at all.
(You know who I’m talking about…)
By the way, notice how faithful/Mitch has run away and hid? He didn’t like it, apparently, that I pointed out that he was lying. Nor has he, as of this writing, posted the video of the girls in their “panties”.
Lord knows that YouTube hosts worse stuff than that, if it’s true.
Truth, are you saying standards are to be drawn based upon our personal preferences? I happen to love the power of loud drumming played to heavy music – should I bring this into a meeting place with the saints, knowing that there may be some who do not like my taste and style of music. Are we free to do whats right in our own eyes?
If someone doesn’t like loud drum music which I do and the church I attend plays very loud contemporary music in worship, and along with that we show our praises to God by raising our hands, clapping our hands , dancing and singing along but all in a decent order. If someone else doesn’t care for that there are other churches that offer softer worship that may be more their cup of tea. And even though I and others do like the loud contemporary music in worship we are there more to hear the teachings that come after worship. We also have another service for those that don’t care for the louder more up beat music that provides softer music for them to worship.
It seems to boil down to personal taste, rather than honoring God. I think we have strayed away from sincere worship and chase after what we like, as evidenced by you having two services for people who like various/different styles of music. In other words we have allowed our flesh to guide the direction of worship. I may disagree with Johnny and others regarding how they determine music to not be in the assemblies, but I am bending more and more their direction when I see people confusing worship with entertainment. The only reason we would pick a certain style of music would be based upon what we like to be entertained with…
Based on what I’ve seen of their “preaching”, I dare say that most people might receive more legitimate edification and enlightenment from a contemporary worship service than they would from one of Robertson and Oldfield’s “sermons”.
I mean, making the destruction of others the focal point of a “ministry” doesn’t go far at all…
I disagree churchesofChrist, God made all of us different. Which includes our taste in food, clothes, and music. I believe it is a blessing from God to be able to provide music and yes enjoy the music as we worship and praise Him, but it shouldn’t be all about the music, the music is about praising Him. And as I said after the worship we recieve the teaching from Gods word and it is from that I am being filled with the word of God.
That’s why Chris I wish we could get more people on here to go check out their Sunday morning services – you would love the teaching that Johnny had about Jesus. They teach more bible than any church I have ever attended. They have three teachings on Sunday morning ( they use to anyways ) and Sunday school class was the best I have ever heard. My sister law compared it to a college class….because the teaching was so in depth ( btw she is a teacher ). There is more to Johnny and crew than meets the eye….but is it so wrong for them to call out people or put down teachings they think to be wrong – we do the same thing on here….so whats the big deal……okay….maybe the attitude could go that they have…..but, heck that’s their choice too
Certain foods will kill you too, and some clothes aren’t designed for the Christian…..we wont agree on this, so its no point in me beating a dead horse.
churchesofChrist, if Robertson is so impressive behind the doors of his church, then why doesn’t he use the opportunity of live television that he continually invests so much money in and preach just as an effective a message to everyone who might tune in across the broadcast area?
He doesn’t do that though. It’s like nobody ever told him that he can attract more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Chris, I have told him this via email and I’m sure others have too, but he chooses to use the TV shows as a way to “defeat and destroy” denominational doctrine…or at least he thinks he is…. I wished he would do some of the teaching that I have seen ….but still yet, I see nothing wrong with trying to prove others wrong ( if they are wrong )……we all do this hear on this blog…
I’m just saying God made us all different with different tastes in things, not meaning people should eat something that would kill them, and you know that. And I don’t believe praising God with either contemporary music or softer music is going to send someone to hell. So I can say the same to you that there is no point in beating a dead horse. And so you think Johnny and them are preaching so much bible and truth when they say all other churches besides the one they attend are not christians, and everyone is going to hell who doesn’t live by what Johnny thinks the bible says.
churchesofChrist, it doesn’t matter to me what Johnny Robertson and his followers believe. If they decide tomorrow that they will drop the “Church of Christ” act and name themselves the Cult of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I’m not going to protest. I’ll wish ’em well. Fine. They can knock their socks off with it.
The problem is not about beliefs or doctrines. The problem IS about their bullying, their confrontational tactics, and their outright lies. The problem is that they have actively sought to “defeat destroy” others: people who were not looking or otherwise asking for any trouble.
Robertson and Oldfield and faithful/Mitch and T.D. (where is he anyway, did Robertson run out of money to bribe him to keep attending his “preaching school”?) cannot justify this kind of behavior at all. Not scripturally. And not honorably.
Exactly Chris.
I mean, what’s the difference between one of the hyper-legalist “Church of Christ” preachers, and a cleric with the Taliban/Al-Qaeda?
If there is such a thing as an Islamic fundamentalist mindset, then I’ll suggest that the mindset of Johnny Robertson and James Oldfield is what the world will see as the Christian equivalent to that. Islamic terrorists try to “defeat destroy” those not like them in the name of Allah. Johnny Robertson tries to “defeat destroy” those not like him in the name of Christ.
And faithful/Mitch still hasn’t produced the video showing beyond all doubt that there is a church in Kernersville where little girls are showing off their panties.
He also hasn’t come back to say that “yes Chris you were using profanity”.
The sheer amount of lying that these people do bears witness that they are not really of Christ.
I understand where you guys are coming from…really. I am not saying I disagree, but was saying he isnt like that all of the time. I know his tactics arent the best way to reach people…to be honest the tactics they employ runs more people away and turn more paopel against them that gain…and Im sure they know this and dont care
look over the grammer/spelling…guess Johnny and I have that in common 🙂
“to be honest the tactics they employ runs more people away and turn more paopel against them that gain…and Im sure they know this and dont care”
They have a superiority complex.
Which ironically is driven by Robertson’s inferiority complex.
humm……..maybe posteriority complex.
Watched “A Word from James Oldfield” tonight. I can’t believe that JO used examples from the news of people from other churches who do wrong to justify his arguments that what hyperconservative churches of Christ are the only churches “found in the Bible”.
Mary Winkler, anyone?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Winkler
Or the Susan Wilson story… http://www.setbb.com/exchurchofchris/viewtopic.php?t=9085&mforum=exchurchofchris
JO should be a bit more careful in the examples he chooses, because you can find skeletons in any closet if you look hard enough.
And then when the caller called in and asked if it was wrong to fly an American flag in front of a church, JO said…
“I don’t necessarily have a problem with that, I mean, the Bible doesn’t say anything about it.”
You could take that exact quote and apply it to the use of musical instruments in worship. Hmm… interesting.
ck your email nat
I checked, lee. Go ahead and remake the argument – it’s been a while.
acts 10:43-46
peter was preaching to the gentiles how that those
who believe in jesus shall receive remission of sins.
and while he was speaking the holy ghost fell on them.
it says the GIFT of the holy ghost was poured out on them as was earlier on the jews
the standard reply from johnny and co is that the spirit was also on the donkey that talked. and that the donkey was not saved.
they would also say that the gentiles had not yet OBEYED
the gospel,as they had not been baptized yet.
heres the rub. peter earlier in acts 5:32 states
that they are witnesses of jesus along with the holy ghost……whom he gives to those who OBEY him.
how could the gentile receive the gift if they had NOT
OBEYED?
you can not get around the scripture.lee
I’ve heard this issue addressed before, and have thought it myself. If I remember correctly, they say that the Gentiles were given the Holy Spirit b/c they needed something special to demonstrate to the Jewish believers that the church wasn’t limited to Jews. Any CofC people want to tackle this issue?
“I don’t necessarily have a problem with that, I mean, the Bible doesn’t say anything about it.”
?!?!?!?!???
So lemme get this straight, James…
You’re going to tell us that the first churches, that Paul and Peter and Silas and Timothy and the rest of those early Christians were involved with, had a Roman standard – complete with eagle and emblazoned with S.P.Q.R. – conspicuously present amidst the worship service?!
Because if you are going to say that you have no problem with a flag in a sanctuary as a “Church of Christ” preacher, then you had also best be prepared to say that the original Christians had Rome represented in their churches, too.
Has anyone noticed that Robertson and Oldfield and Mitch/faithful never respond to anyone’s questions, if they are presented with overwhelming evidence and arguments that contradict what they are preaching and proves that they are wrong?
I asked what many have said was a very good question last week, on my blog, and they haven’t addressed it at all.
Mitch/faithful accused me of using profanity in comments to his videos. I told him that he was a liar and he knew it. He hasn’t had the gumption to come back and tell me that I’m lying about that.
Robertson said he had footage of girls showing their panties in a church in Kernersville. Based on what I’ve seen of it, there wasn’t anything different than a girl wearing a ballet outfit or swimsuit for those kinds of activities. Robertson was insinuating that pornographic activity was going on.
It’s still a very open question as to who exactly painted the bomb threat on the side of the Danville Church of Christ. Odd, that no one in the press investigated it or even that a police report seems to have been filed, but Robertson and Mitch/faithful immediately blamed it on the Nation of Islam. Nothing more has come of that, either. You’d think that what is now legally defined as an act of terrorism would arouse some official curiosity, wouldn’t you?
Robertson spoke plenty of lies on his show this past Sunday night. But then that’s par for the course for him. He’s said so many in recent memory that I have to wonder if the man’s mind has any grasp of reality, of what is truth and what is not.
But then, I don’t expect much from a man who almost killed another person not once, but twice. Yeah there’s plenty more to the Johnny Robertson saga. And when I found out some other things about him, I decided then that Johnny Robertson is a coward, has always been a coward, and will likely remain a coward for the rest of his life.
No wonder he goes around like he does! He’s trying to cover up and hide his feelings of inadequacy! And what does this say of the man’s state with God? If he was seriously forgiven, he would not be trying to puff himself up by making others look worse than he already is!
By the way Johnny, if you’re reading this: one of the most well-respected people in America has said that I have a better grasp of the Bible than most who have studied it their entire lives. I’ll trust this person’s opinion more than I’ll trust you and your cult’s.
So why don’t you want to take me on? I’ve said that I don’t care what you do to try to hurt me. You’ve called me “village idiot” and “hypocrite” and likely far worse (just like how you talk about Charles Roark when you think nobody else is listening). That hasn’t bothered me at all.
So why don’t you answer our questions like a sane and rational human being, instead of as a raving and babbling madman?
If you guys really want a “debate”, then you’d better be ready to face the fire as much as anyone.
Quit being a coward. You’ve already nearly killed others because of it. You don’t have to kill what little is left of your reputation with it, also.
Chris get it straight. I called you the village idiot and hypocrite, not Johnny. I don’t think any one respectable takes you seriously.
faithful,
You are currently the only person from your tribe actually commenting on the blog with any regularity, and you are avoiding any of the good issues that are brought up. Rather than coming on every couple of days and playing verbal grenade toss with Chris, why don’t you engage in discussion?
Take your pick on any of the recent issues. Let’s start with the most recent issue – instruments in worship – something that your 3 TV men seem to think they have locked up, when it is obvious that they do not.
Here, I’ll even link you so that you don’t have to work to go there:
https://answeringchurchofchrist.wordpress.com/2008/08/06/its-back-musical-instruments-in-worship/
I think everyone knows my stand/take on musical instruments in the assembles. I see nothing in the bible that prohibits one from playing music and singing in worship, but my concern is with the music becoming acts of entertainment, rather that acts of worship. But you guys “faithful” twist the scriptures to make them support your view by using CENI, which many church of Christ sects have abounded because of the inconsistency when applied to everything..like flags and things like that…JO concludes its permissible because nothing is stated against it in the bible – same argument could be used regarding music. Actually, the argument for music is stronger, seeing God allowed it and never said otherwise, so I “infer” that it’s ok based upon it’s former approval and God never stated otherwise. You guys play God and restrict its use based upon silence – any honest person knows that if he applied the silence of scriptures argument fully that silence would prohibit many other things…but you will throw in the “expedient” card here…
Randy said to faithful
“Rather than coming on every couple of days and playing verbal grenade toss with Chris, why don’t you engage in discussion?”
My My
Why don’t you all take your own advice
instead of all the secretive hide and seek on here
why dont you come on my broadcast and engage…
please don’t decry faithful’s “tactic” when you all engage in the lowest tactics
why not be like Chris?
is it because Chris made a fool out of himself?
oh he did get one of his “actors” in with American Gigilo Gere… (great Christian stuff)
but over all the communty labeled him “another one bites the dust” Gen 3:14
Ge 3:14 ¶ And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust dust dust dust dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Faithful you are doing a great job. We don’t even need to come in here because of you. You answer these little children well(Mt 11:16 ¶ But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,…)
and I would like to give you some kudos for getting my count up….on you tube along with reflections folks in OK. I am now hitting 37,000.
I don’t even post on “you tube” and my lately lamented website (per these little children) is not posted on. Yet I am just behind these folks in hit and I don’t even try.
We all know 70,000 is small fries… and they try so hard
keep it up faithful and children no more of that talk about tactics now…
And Chris lets not hear any more gun talk either
johnny
And I almost forgot
Chris has my past up for all to see
let us read it here too
FROM CHRIS WEBSITE ON JOHNNY
This blog has just been notified of an important anniversary!….
Yes folks, this past Friday, August 1st, was the thirtieth anniversary of a certain somebody going all nuts in a convenience store in east Texas, pulling out a revolver and threatening to kill the store’s owner, then making off with a ridiculously tiny sum of money before being apprehended following a twenty-minute high-speed car chase… in a Ford Pinto.
(Was this same young man suicidal in addition to being an idiot?)
For that little stunt, Our Hero spent two years locked up in the prison at Huntsville (the one used for death sentences) before getting out and spending the next few as a paroled convicted felon.
And that’s just the beginning…
More coming soon.
In the church of Christ we do not have testimony. We give all the glory to God and don’t spend time having folk “ooh & awh over our great story about our great conversion and how strong we are.
So I guess Chris will do it for me. He has now told everybody my partial story. Be careful now Chris , you don’t want to make me toooo much of a story do you? I might surpass you?
Ok now Let us see if that slows Chris down. He is making me out to be a criminal that has turned around his life … and Chris is making light of the fact?
How does that Glorify God guys? We laugh at the guy who was a felon / Make fun of his get away? and the little money he stole?
Sounds just like prison all over again. That is waht they do in the prison Chris. If you don’t do the big crime and get into a deadly car chase in a corvette you are not really a felon .
Sorry I was so stupid back then Chris
At least I came to the video event with enough tape to get the whole story. Have you seen it Chris?
When my camera was the only one rolling?
Honestly guys I have wanted to tell my story and try to help some kids, but I just couldn’t bring myself to do that “testimony” thing. It seemed to glamorize the person telling toooo much. So I have just let it be. But now Chris is bringing it out just the way I would like it to be seen. A stupid 17 year old from a broken home who turned 21 in prison for getting mixed up with the wrong crowd. My “best friend” who was the wrong crowd has been back twice since then. Me? No I have tried to be a Christian. My tours have not been in prison but into 3rd world countries to seek the lost.
Chris if you are such a great reporter why don’t you tell the peolee what kind of housing I had in Ebeye? Tell the people what kind of country Ebeye is? I can’t do it because I just can’t bring myself to spend all that time telling about myself.
Take a look at Chris web page … he boast all the way through it
NEW YORK TIMES noted? for what
On August 8, 2008 at 7:51 am johnny robertson Said:
Randy said to faithful
“Rather than coming on every couple of days and playing verbal grenade toss with Chris, why don’t you engage in discussion?”
– Johnny, have you had your coffee yet ? I didn’t say that to “the behind the walls Mr. faithful”…Nathan did. While youre here, defend your stand on Music…..pretty please 🙂
Dear Chris
here is your comment
Robertson said he had footage of girls showing their panties in a church in Kernersville. Based on what I’ve seen of it, there wasn’t anything different than a girl wearing a ballet outfit or swimsuit for those kinds of activities. Robertson was insinuating that pornographic activity was going on.
I didnt insinuate any thing. I read the NC law on obscene and it clearly says it is based upon community feelings
our community called in and said it was shameful
if you think a swimsuit that shows the section from navel to thighs for all to see is not shameful then that is you. the community said otherwise.
Chris do you go to the beach? Does your family wear such dress? would you be offended if persons took pictures and posted them? how would any one of you feel if someone took pictures of the same area we blocked out during our show, and posted them for all to gawk at?
just because you dress up and do a dance to music does not make it OK. If it is wrong to look into girls dressing room and look at them in panties and bra it is wrong to see them while dancing, or getting wet at a beach.
Chris and the American gigilo may like this but people who are in tune with God say it is not really of any “artistic value” and it really appeals to the “prurient interest”
can I ask you Chris do you really need to strip down to your panties to dance well? or to get wet? or is it just the low moral side of people that causes them to take clothing off while dancing and swimming.
you might examine how God felt about fig leaves?
sorry we I am trying to get chris night to cover up panties right now
besides how do i know there is a nathan? it may be you randy
Johnny, go back and find where “faithful” addressed the issues….he might throw a few lines mixed with some name calling and then dip back out, but far from proving anything…get real. If this URL isnt worth your time…then post it on your TV show for others to view…I bet you want do that….because that would help people see how weak your arguments are…well I have to run to Lowes and Wall Mart…later Johnny
On August 8, 2008 at 8:37 am johnny robertson Said:
besides how do i know there is a nathan? it may be you randy
– Johnny, I dont even know Nathan…how do I know its not you guys 🙂 Seeing yall use these sort of tactics
I have never met Nathan…doesnt even matter to me who he is…because both sides are being posted on here…so I could care less if he is with you guys or not…got to run…take care
let us see if we can get any more ridiculous than this
chris said
It’s also very likely that Jesus was completely naked as He hung on the cross. We are told that they took His clothes away from Him.
Look at this//// his enemies stripped him and it was sure a shame to him
from this chris says you can strip yourself and be like Jesus
good … little children goood. Chris is your new champion… I proclaim him Knight of Nakedness
Nathan on James answer to flag
You could take that exact quote and apply it to the use of musical instruments in worship. Hmm… interesting.
James said the Bible (NT)does not say anything about flags
Nathan says then you can use musical instruemnts
last time I checked the Bible (NT) was specific about musical instruments God wanted in worship
Heb 13:15 lips Heb 2:12 voices Eph 5:19 sing Col 3:17 sing 1Cor 14:15 sing need more?
you get it Nathan
why dont you have reporter Chris tell you who introduced the first mechanical instrument to worship? have him spell check my stuff to
dear chris i just loved this from
randy nathan whom ever
This begs the question – does anything go in worship? Are there any guidelines when in church ? Can we have a jazz band and smoking are in church ? How about a mosh-pit with some thrash metal ( oops, we already have this, my bad ) My point is – where is the standard ( and please note, I am not promoting pattern theology ) but surely we must not allow everything and anything. I was raised in a movement where it’s common place for ladies to fall out in the floor ( what they called slain in the Spirit ) and often their dresses would rise up requiring someone to throw a jacket or something over their legs.
how did you like it?
chris said speaking of faithful
(where is he anyway, did Robertson run out of money to bribe him to keep attending his “preaching school”?)
Chris do you have a problem with us being so liberal with our giving that we can support our men to learn full time? After all we do have a greater task than all you . We have the task of being right! It takes more training to be right! We work at it all the time, trying to help others get right!
So if these men want to dedicate themselves full time to learning do you have a problem with it. If you wanted to go to Liberty full time for ministry you would likely get a grant (beg the government) but we do this all on our own. Is it OK if we love the truth that much Chris. Can we support men fully who leave jobs to study full time to answer allllllll of you?
is there something bad? sinister????? About this?
I went out and gathered these funds for these men. Was I bad? Was I selfish. Was my family selfish when they didnt see me 3 months at a time ? No they thought it would be better to multiply our efforts since things were going sooooooo well and after all you helped us chris. Remember the O’Dell story. Thank you Chris. That put us over the top.
I am writing about it now in a report I send out to those faithful who send funds the men who study with us and now answer you.
That loud sound you hear in a month will be the laughter of my brethren when they hear of you and the Odell affair.
Now that we have your attention Johnny, please tell us…
Regarding my question last week about the Forty Martyrs of Sebaste: did Sempronius go to Heaven? Or was he not saved because he was never baptized? This is one of the most famous and best reported stories of early Christendom, Johnny. I’ve looked for every possible way to reconcile the story of the Forty Martyrs with the doctrine you espouse, and I can’t find how Sempronius could have possibly done anything but go to Hell because of it. So please tell us: did he die for nothing? Was Sempronius eternally lost because he did not receive baptism?
If you can’t answer this question at least, then I’ve no reason why I or anyone else should expect solid answers from you about anything else.
Exactly how much must one “remain faithful” in order to maintain salvation, according to your doctrine? Show us where is the line between being what is faithful enough, and what is not faithful enough.
How can you say that musical instruments are a dire sin when it is never referred to as such in the Bible? Can you pinpoint a verse that says that it is a sin?
And finally: I’m told that during most services, you are supposedly quite a biblical scholar. How come we never see that side of you on your television program? Why do you instead choose only to show the world the mean, snarling Johnny Robertson?
(And how do you intend for that to persuade people of your cause, anyway?)
Why don’t you answer the issues and questions in a calm and rational manner, rather than your coming across as one who has lost control of his emotions.
And regarding the video, Johnny:
Between its low quality, and your claims of what it was showing, there was no way that anyone could watch it unawares and readily understand what they were watching. I showed that clip to two other people (who have never heard of you, by the way) and they barely thought that it depicted people dancing.
Did Johnny fall asleep or something? He ask some questions, made some comments as if he wanted to engage in biblical conversation and then dipped out. I think he may just want to pick a fight, rather than discuss biblical issues. It makes a good show if he can make someone lose control – plus he can go to his supporters and tell them about the negative things thrown at him, I imagine they just eat this stuff up and throw the salad on him, ya know, the green stuff –MONEY ! If Johnny desires the lost to be saved, then come on here and engage in biblical debate, and not just come on here for the sake of gathering information for the next Johnny Springer show. Johnny, you do a great job preaching/teaching at your meeting place-Martinsville church of Christ, but it doesn’t show on TV as much. I guess that would just be an average show if you preached liked every other church of Christ preacher….probably not get you enough salad on your plate either.
Told you Chris, he doesnt want to talk bible 🙂
“I proclaim him Knight of Nakedness”
hahaha..thanks for the morning laughter Johnny..I needed that!
(no offense meant to you Chris…I’m just enjoying the funnies!)
“I proclaim him Knight of Nakedness”
Am glad that you caught that Rick, ‘cuz otherwise I would have missed it. So much nonsense to have to wade through… “Knight of Nakedness”? Well, it’s not the oddest nickname that I’ve picked up over the years, LOL 🙂
So Johnny, we’re still waiting on your answer to the question regarding the Forty Martyrs of Sebaste, and the centurion Sempronius. Where are you? What do you have to say for it?
Your gang likes to boast all the time that you want to debate others. Real debate doesn’t involve making snide and rude comments and then slinking off when the going gets tough.
So tell us: did Sempronius go to Hell because he wasn’t baptized?
By the way, Johnny is here, y’all. He just spent quite a bit of time visiting my blog. So he’s on his computer right now, and no doubt reading what we are writing here. He can’t claim ignorance.
Johnny, again: did Sempronius go to Hell because he was not baptized?
It is definitely “the funnies” Rick. From the roof tops they proclaim that they are always ready to give an answer to any man who ask, yeah right ! I recall Clint offering to debate Johnny on biblical issues and I recall Johnny NOT giving an answer, so much for obeying all commands in the bible. Now Chris has thrown some curve balls Johnny way, and it looks like Johnny has struck out again, unable to answer. He stated I could be posing as Nathan….boy am I tempted to disclose some information, but I will keep the lid on tight for now. Well, I have to mow my grass….you guys have at it….I’m out.
I find it interesting that JR comes to this specific page where we discussed his last show, in which he didn’t tell the truth about events that transpired on this blog, but he doesn’t address that topic.
The offer to make things right is still open, JR.
Let’s look at some of what JR said:
We’re trying? What are we doing to try? Do we have four hours on TV? Nope. Just this little blog. And now we’re being referenced on other blogs!
http://mattdabbs.wordpress.com/2008/08/06/parchment-and-pen-clears-up-some-misconceptions-about-emergingemergent-church/
That’s kinda cool.
But I do appreciate the acknowledgement that our bigger numbers are bleeding off onto you a bit.
JR wrote:
Those are great passages you gave, JR! Wonderful. Now, I wonder if you could show us the passages that say that the Old Testament authority has been revoked? And don’t mention sacrifices, because we’re told in the NT that the need to sacrifice has been revoked, as Christ was the ultimate sacrifice (Hebrews 10).
Isn’t it interesting that the writer of Hebrews goes to great lengths to educate the early church that sacrifices are no longer needed, but doesn’t mention a thing about the playing of musical instruments in worship. What do you guys say about being silent where Scripture is silent? And yet you vocally condemn something that Scripture is silent about.
johnny,
“in the church of christ we dont have testamony”
is that true? or is that just in your church?
paul would disagree with you.
better find out what does the bible say……
acts 22:3-5 and php 3:4-7 sounds like a good old
fashioned testimony to me.
“i just couldnt bring myself to do that testimony thing”
you have said on several occasions now how that you have given up a business, rolls royce and lived on a desert isle. sounds like a testimony to me.
is a man a liar because he lies or does he lie because hes a liar?
lee
also ,
i know you that you have seen my last post about
the holy spirit.
dont like that topic do you john?
lee
“Do we have four hours on TV?”
And you wouldn’t believe how much money they pay for that airtime.
There is a reason why Charles Roark practically asks “how high?” whenever Johnny Robertson tells him to “jump, boy”.
It’s not officially on paper, but Robertson’s cult owns the television stations in Martinsville and Reidsville. The influence is so severe that if they were to pull out, WGSR would no doubt fold like an accordion.
You know, for a brief moment it seemed that we saw a different side of Johnny:
“Honestly guys I have wanted to tell my story and try to help some kids, but I just couldn’t bring myself to do that “testimony” thing. It seemed to glamorize the person telling toooo much. So I have just let it be. But now Chris is bringing it out just the way I would like it to be seen. A stupid 17 year old from a broken home who turned 21 in prison for getting mixed up with the wrong crowd. My “best friend” who was the wrong crowd has been back twice since then. Me? No I have tried to be a Christian. My tours have not been in prison but into 3rd world countries to seek the lost.”
It would not be glamorizing, Johnny-it would just be being honest. That is what the world wants-honesty and truth. To let them know they are loved right where they are, that there is a GREAT message of love, hope, and forgiveness for EVERYone-no matter who they are, what they have done, or where they are.
Instead, you have turned Christianity into always being “right” or perfect-something to achieve or gain through your sect of a church, instead of simply through Christ.
One would think you would believe otherwise based on where you have come from-out of the darkness into the light. Why not tell how someone brought you to Christ and just do the same for others? Why attack and belittle everyone who does not believe like you? Did someone do that to you or did they reach out with the love of Christ? I don’t know-you and God are the ones who know your story, but it is not wrong to share.
“Trying to be a Christian” means loving people-not going out and proving everyone wrong for the sake of…well, honestly I am not sure what it is for the sake of. Going to third world countries-that is great. Preaching the Bible to your congregation-wonderful. But, what is your purpose on your TV shows? What is the purpose of training your men to go and debate and argue with everyone then running away, instead of just discussing like rational human beings what the Bible really says? Truth will stand up to it all-always.
It all boils down to LOVE. God is love. The two greatest commandments tell us to love God and love our neighbor. We are known by our love. We follow God and His commands because we love Him. If we do not have love, we are nothing but a clanging cymbal or gong. The world will know us by our love-not how right we are, not if we found the “right” church, if we sing the right songs or pray the the right prayers…but how we went about our lives living on Christ’s love in front of them.
You can’t just love everyone in your church for a few hours a week and then go out and stomp on everyone else just because they don’t believe like you…and there is no way in the world you can use the Bible to justify that type of behavior. But that is exactly what you are teaching and training these men to do. They would have been better to stay in their secular job and continued to be salt and light there than be taught to do what you are training them to do-which is not teaching truth, but furthering your agenda.
Anyway, I started this to say that I think your “testimony” or “story” or whatever you choose to call it could be used to touch people who have been there, and just need to know there is hope for all-that there is a message of forgiveness and salvation for everyone-and it is ONLY found in Christ and always has been.
Katherine,
You just won the Best Comment of the Year for that one. I was thinking about saying something like that, but it wouldn’t have come out nearly as eloquent.
Here’s hoping…
Kudos to what Katherine said.
I must admit: she is saying what I have tried – and failed – to say.
I can learn a lot from you, Katherine. My hat’s off to ya, good lady 🙂
“A stupid 17 year old from a broken home…”
…is no excuse for how you are acting as a 48 year old man today, Johnny.
I understand there’s a saying in Texas: “You’ve got to rise above your raising,” or something to that effect.
No amount of supposedly “good works” is going to compensate for a heart that has chosen and still chooses to “defeat destroy” others. You can’t earn God’s favor like that.
Still waiting for your response about Sempronius. Did he go to Hell because he wasn’t baptized, as your doctrine preaches is required for salvation?
Thanks, guys…it needed to be said-yep, here’s hoping it actually sinks in 🙂
I really felt the Spirit moving me to write it, so I am praying He will keep moving it into their hearts…
dont be too disapointed, sometimes he hardens the heart.
lee
chris said
It’s not officially on paper, but Robertson’s cult owns the television stations in Martinsville and Reidsville. The influence is so severe that if they were to pull out, WGSR would no doubt fold like an accordion.
Chris just so you know, Charles lost 3000.00 per month when Jackie Poe and all the other pentecostals tried to hold him hostage in 2001. They said get johhny off are we are leaving. I had a small one hour show on ch 6 then. He refused to do so just because he doesnt like to be intimidated now I dont pay him near what they did in thse days,.
do the math chris and would you spell check this while you are at it.
oh and your 40 death squad… you decided to go back real far (not like ms Odell) so we couldn’t all find out what really happened huh.
nice try
Chris can i ask do you have a job?
would you let a female take care of you?
read 1tim 5:8 while we wait
chris said
“A stupid 17 year old from a broken home…”
…is no excuse for how you are acting as a 48 year old man today, Johnny.
are two really comparable chris?
I am not at all sure you can make that clear.
We have plenty of people saying on air in the call in segments that you are just mad because you looked foolish. I heard one person take up for you
the rest said you were just a hound for the media attention.
even your little web friends here didn’t take up for you when you ran your “movie” that got your “christian” friend hooked up with gigilo
spell check this for me please while you are at…
I’m self-employed, Johnny. Doing rather well, actually. My school board commercials wound up generating a LOT of interest in my video talent. It’s been enough to support me and mine, travel a bit, and engage in creative endeavors. It’s a good life.
dear lee
you said about me and testimony
is a man a liar because he lies or does he lie because hes a liar?
lee
it took 25 years for anyone to hear of my life and the only reason we are wasting time on me now is because you all can’t stay on topic
we have answered you all till it is funny and then you decided to take on my past
have fun
you are helping make people realize that there is even more to me than they knew before.
Can’t you see you are showing them that with Jesus help I came from the ashes of a destroyed life. I am trusted by people all over the brotherhood now and it only goes to show that in the church of Christ we do forgive people’s past but in denomins like you all are in , it is something to destroy you with if need be
we have already been down this road last year on TV
Randy you could tell these children that all it did was help me when this came out on ch 18 last year or 2006 one.
thanks to chris in advance
Got anything else you want to try?
Want to tell everyone about the man you left for dead while you ran away, Johnny?
chris could i interest you in some tape to go with your talent.
you looked soooo ???? i just cant find words ,…. pitiable ?
when you came to the dueling video with not enough tape
or talent
tell the group what you said to the homeless man when he ask you for a little money?
what did you tell him
let me jog your memory it is in James 2:16
Johnny,
Did Sempronius go to Hell because he was not baptized?
You still cannot answer this question.
You are supposed to be prepared to answer any question. Why can’t you answer this one?
chris you just jogged my memory
where did you say you went overseas (it is on tape)
Did Sempronius go to hell because he was not baptized, Johnny?
thanks for calling me dear?
but with all that fluff you still didnt address the point about paul and your lack of knowledge of scripture.
lee
I find it so telling that Johnny Robertson, “preacher of the Bible”, cannot answer so simple a question as to whether or not the centurion Sempronius, numbered among the Forty Martyrs of Sebaste, went to Hell because he was not a baptized believer.
What was the name of the man that you left for dead, Johnny?
chris
did ODell issue make you go back beyond record keeping?
funny how no one is jumping on the Sempronius wagon like they did Ms Odell. They were al ready for Sunday nite weren’t they? Chris has Johnny on Ms Odell.
No one wants to pick that up again do they?
they all saw you run out of religion in just 10 minutes and then being the success story you are, you swindled charles out of time for you starving artist.
you are doing good chris
do my spell ck please
did you notice my you tube count these days , even with my lame blog?
Are you also missing from your files that I’m an Eagle Scout, Johnny?
chris are we talking about me 30 years ago and you last month
overseas answer please
where was your travel
we are all listening
Did Sempronius go to Hell, Johnny?
“Brave Sir Johnny ran away. Ran away away, away!”
A simple yes or no answer, Johnny, will suffice. And none of that “Go and listen to Benny Hinn” nonsense, either…
Did Sempronius lay his life down for nothing, even though he professed with his mouth that he was a believer in Christ and chose to die for that belief, because he was not baptized?
was paul in the church?
did he give a testimony?
did you show a lack of knowledge?
its ok god loves imperfect people.
amen john?
lee
chris we all saw you run away on tv
you havent even brought up anything to answer
I have no problem saying folks like Sempronius went to hell or not. History is full of misguided catholics who have been called myarters.
i m just not interested in going down this line when we already saw you make a fool out of yourself on Odell
“Can’t you see you are showing them that with Jesus help I came from the ashes of a destroyed life. I am trusted by people all over the brotherhood now and it only goes to show that in the church of Christ we do forgive people’s past but in denomins like you all are in , it is something to destroy you with if need be”
Johnny, did you read ANYthing I said?!
Quit acting like everyone is perfect in churches of Christ while everyone else is mean and unforgiving. That is simply not true. There are fallible humans in every church and denomination-all with pasts, mistakes, joys and successes, failures, etc. None are perfect. If you actually think that your group/sect is the most accepting and forgiving-you have obviously shown otherwise on here. You seem to only want to accept and forgive those who believe like you and will jump on your bandwagon-all others you think you can attack, judge, and bring up their pasts to mock and belittle-but somehow when it is done to you, you are suddenly a “martyr”. By the way, you are not trusted by people all over the brotherhood-you may have your following that you have manipulated to give you money and trust you, but that is certainly not the case for many of us. Why? Because you don’t just preach the truth-you preach your agenda and try to further it more than you are glorifying God.
Why can you not just step away from your agenda for ONE moment and simply focus on Christ? Why does it always have to be about how you are somehow right and everyone else is wrong? Where is the LOVE?!
Please go back and read my post. You have some questions to answer.
Ok children I need to go into the world where people actually are rational. Did you see Wed nite when the lady actually read the bible for a change and said she was learning?
you all wouldnt be honest if it was true. We have all seen that
be careful not to get tooooo caught up in myarters from you know who
chris why didnt you tell us about your world travel as you did me when your tape ran out?
They weren’t Catholic, Johnny. The Catholic church didn’t exist at the time. And even if it did, these would have been what we today call Eastern Orthodox. But at the time there were no “denominations” as we would understand them.
So you are saying that Sempronius did go to Hell, because he was not baptized?
And you are saying that you don’t care?
Wait, hold on a sec…
You are telling the world that you don’t care if someone not exactly like you, goes to Hell? That’s not enough to break your heart and make you weep?
So you are saying that Sempronius died for nothing?
Wow. I mean… wow. How does someone with a conscience respond to a statement like that?
I’m seriously at a loss for words here, folks.
I even have to wonder if Johnny Robertson has anything like a soul at all.
NTFK
no time for fake christians like kath
i dont read your stuff dear
Well, since you have sicked “faithful”/Mitch/studyjesus on your youtube site-you are not even seeing the many people who completely disagree with what you are saying or doing. Did you tell him to do that? So you would look like everyone loves what you are saying and no one is against it?
He erased all of my comments-just because I was getting close to the truth.
If you don’t fear debate or investigation, then why do you not allow people to question or comment? The truth will ALWAYS be brought to the light-it cannot hide in the darkness for long.
come on john, just admit it.
your wrong on testimonies.
lee
chris
i had to give you this from catholics themselves on catholic during the time you speak of
Why do some anti-Catholic groups say that Constantine was the first pope and that he founded the Catholic Church at the Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D.?
This question has to be dealt with on two levels. First, we show that in actual fact there was a long line of popes to the time of Constantine, so how can Constantine be the first pope? Secondly we must look at the reasons these charges are made in the first place: what did Constantine do or appear to do that makes Protestants think he was the founder of the Catholic Church? (Answer: he called the First Council of Niceae in 325 AD).
The answer to why some Protestants say Constantine was the first pope is: because of an appalling ignorance of history. In actual fact, St. Sylvester was the pope at the time of Constantine’s rise to power in Rome. Pope St. Sylvester was also the pope when the Council of Nicaea was convened in 325 AD. Though Constantine called the council, it was Pope St. Sylvester’s legates, Vitus (some sources say his name was Victor) and Vincent, who ratified it in his name. The Council was attended by 318 bishops of the Catholic Church, which would be sort of tricky if Constantine himself had started the Catholic Church that year.
stick to art chris
like i said many misguided catholics myarters did lots of things for which there will be no reward from God because it is not in Jesus name
Lee,
I don’t want to interrupt the catfight, but I’ve tried to address your questions about Cornelius on my blog here:
http://coreydavis.wordpress.com/2008/08/08/the-curious-case-of-cornelius-conversion/
You can come discuss it there with me if you want. I won’t be discussing it here.
Good luck with the fighting folks!
Well, you had to read something I had written to answer me 🙂
I figured that was coming. “NTFK” because I am speaking the truth, and YOU KNOW IT.
I am from the “brotherhood” and I challenge your agenda, and YOU DON’T LIKE IT.
Everyone here knows I am not a fake Christian. I have absolutely nothing to hids and have stood up to your antics.
Your biggest problem is probably that I am a woman. You seem to engage Chris and Lee plenty and don’t see them as Christians. Is that the problem, Johhny? Is it because a woman is speaking the truth to you?
If you are so knowledgeable, don’t you know that you are supposed to always have a reason for the faith you have? You certainly have not shown that.
You should read what I wrote-there is a lot of truth in it 🙂
Constantine was the Emperor of the Western Roman Empire, Johnny. He had no jurisdiction – either temporal or ecclesiastical – in Armenia, which was part of the East under Licinius.
Oh, did I mention that I’ve a history degree also and I’m going for my masters? That as an undergrad my professors were praising me for doing “doctorate-level research”?
Don’t try to use history in this, Johnny. It’s like the old saying: “In a battle of wits, you came unarmed.”
i have made correct statements about things paul said
corey. so why then would you have to demean them by
calling it a cat fight?
werent they “honest “corey?
lee
It’s pretty sad-isn’t it Chris? It is like they don’t even WANT people to go to heaven unless they come into their fold.
I would love to see the surprise on their faces when they get to heaven and see how far God has extended His kingdom!!! What a joyful day that will be! 🙂
By the way, J it is MARTYRS 🙂
and kat,
you must not be reading closely.
he dosent reply to me.
he knows i dont care what he thinks
lee
I was referring to the Chris – Johnny feud. I wasn’t talking about you Lee.
I’m expecting Johnny to try to “make hay” out of the fact that I don’t work for anyone, thus that I’m “unemployed”, LOL! In addition to the video production work I’m also a paid freelance writer. Throw in working on a book and a feature film project and I’m a busy bee, indeed. Along with the consulting work.
But like I said, it’s a good life 🙂
uh scuse me master chris or dr.
but you said no catholic church at that time
go back and check the post
maybe you are correcting what you meant to say
we all know coming to a battle with me you need to bring enough tape
boy is it hard to keep you on your words
kat,
after all you apparently know about scripture
do you still believe john in his actions to destroy
the denominations is a son of god?
if so then you would have to say he is doing his will.
lee
john,
lets keep you on your words.
now how bout pauls testimony?
lee
The Council was in 325. The episode of the Forty Martyrs was five years earlier.
Epic fail. Again.
kat
i am not trying to trap you.
i like your spirit, but we some times have to
fish or cut bait.
i cant embrace a man who dosent want to be embraced.
im not saying god cant help him any more than myself.
but right now he dosent want it or even feel he needs it.
i would say that we have enough to do just fighting the
devil but thats who he thinks we are.
lee
“He was shocked, confused, bewildered As he entered Heaven’s door, Not by the beauty of it all, Nor the lights or its decor. But it was the folks in Heaven Who made him sputter and gasp– The thieves, the liars, the sinners, The alcoholics and the trash. There stood the kid from seventh grade Who swiped his lunch money twice. Next to him was his old neighbor Who never said anything nice. Herb, who he always thought Was rotting away in hell, Was sitting pretty on cloud nine, Looking incredibly well. He nudged Jesus, ‘What’s the deal? I would love to hear Your take. How’d all these sinners get up here? God must’ve made a mistake. ‘And why’s everyone so quiet, So somber – give me a clue. ‘Hush, child,’ Jesus said, ‘they’re all in shock. No one thought they’d be seeing you.”
im slow rick,
is that for me?
Not intentionally..only if you think it applies 🙂
oh my toes.
lee
Lee, you know what I can’t understand about Robertson? It’s that he doesn’t seem to comprehend at all that what he is doing is becoming part of a permanent record. All of his words will be floating around on the Internet indefinitely, available to a much larger audience than to whoever might tune in to the local television stations (and the especially small percentage of those viewers who actually take him seriously).
For the rest of his life and beyond, Johnny DeVere Robertson will be known as the man who exclaimed that it was his God-given mission to “defeat destroy” his enemies in the name of Jesus Christ.
But as horrible a thing as it is to say something like that, it’s not what posterity will damn him for. No, he will be a scorned man for his refusal to back down, and that he would not change his heart and turn aside from the hatred and rancor and division that he tried to work among the followers of Christ.
I’ll say it again: You can best judge a person by his capacity for change and growth. Whether or not he (or she) is willing to go past whatever he is right now, and become the person that God wants him to be.
Want to know why I brought up Robertson’s past? Because I can’t tell how he is any different from that “17 year old from a broken home” (he was actually 18 at the time) who held a gun to a man to steal some money, and who earlier left a man to nearly die from a car crash that Robertson had caused. He’s still capable of doing… Lord only knows what. If this was a man who had served time in prison for second-degree murder, and had a genuine turning-toward Christ and now sought to spend the rest of his life in peace and gentleness and demonstrating the grace of God in everything that he did after he was released… then I would never think of telling the world to “watch out” for such a man.
I have known one or two such as this, by the way. But Johnny Robertson is not such a man.
He’s still angry. He’s still bitter. He’s still vindictive. And tying a pretty bow around it and calling it the “Church of Christ” won’t change that or make him into a better person.
In my mind, he is still dangerous. And what’s more, plenty of people in this area consider him to be dangerous.
But he does not have to be that way. If he wants that.
Maybe that is why we are here. Why we are being called to hold Robertson and his followers accountable for what they are doing. Perhaps God is letting us endure the petty arrows that they fling toward us, because God is trying to break through their stone-hard hearts to show them that they are not obeying Him in the one way that matters most: they are not showing His love for others as He has loved them.
Perhaps we are all that’s left to try to show Johnny Robertson that he is in far greater danger of hellfire than anyone he loathes and accuses of being “false”.
He is who he is. Nobody but Satan himself should tell him that he has to remain that way for the rest of his existence. But if that’s who Johnny Robertson has chosen to be, if we cannot persuade him to call off his mad jihad against everyone else…
…well, at least we can sleep sound in our beds knowing that we did make the attempt to convince him. And I’ve no doubt that God will make note of that.
All Johnny is trying to do is try to upset you to make you look like you are the ones bad mouthing him, when he is the one who attacks others. Johnny is no man of God and by his words has he proven his ignorance of Gods word. And Johnny may think he is making some good insults but they just make him look more ridiculous. Kat, great comments you certainly have shown the love and grace of God toward a man who doesn’t want it.
Can’t stay I’m busy working, be back later.
Johnny is all about buiding his own ego. Obviously when he THINKS he is showing how bad others are he THINKS it makes him look good, when in reality it just shows how terrible a person he can be and is.
“Is that the problem, Johhny? Is it because a woman is speaking the truth to you?”
There is plenty of precedent in the Bible for a woman being called by God to speak the truth when the menfolk are in error. Deborah comes to mind.
But you know, Christ’s ministry is not, and was never supposed to be, limited to “preachers” or “teachers” or whoever.
The Kingdom of Heaven is preached every day, by each of us who are saved by the grace of God. This is the greatest outreach effort of all time: that it is not left to preachers or missionaries, or to a certain gender or even to anyone of a certain age (remember that Timothy was thought of as too young?). People are persuaded of the reality of Christ by how you and me and everyone else who professes to be in Christ, demonstrates His love with how we conduct our lives in this world.
Does that mean we have to be perfect? That we have to “remain faithful”? No. I’ll admit to moments when I lapse also. That we can get up after we’ve fallen down and keep going in our faith in Him, makes our testimony all the more potent.
That said: of all the words that have been exchanged on this thread, those of the one woman that we know is among us here are the most reflective of the love and grace of Jesus Christ.
And as a guy, I’m not ashamed to admit that. Or that I can learn a lot about having a more Christ-like life from Katherine’s words.
“Johnny is all about buiding his own ego.”
Truth, you said a mouthful and you probably don’t even know it yet.
Lee, I know what you are saying. You and all the others who have said it are right-he does not want our help and sees us as the enemy. That is unfortunate for him, because I am only trying to help him see that while he believes he is helping the cause of Christ-he is only hurting it. No, I cannot condone his actions or behavior because I see nothing of love and nothing of Christ. I only see hate, evil, and condemnation-which is certainly far from the reason Christ died on a cross.
However, I will not condemn him as he chooses to condemn us. We can judge him by his fruits, and I do not find them good. Darkness cannot mix with light. Eventually, the light will consume the dark and overtake it. I know that God and Him alone can change their hearts to His love and grace. I have heard of people who felt and acted the same way as Johnny and the crew, and they eventually repented and lamented of their behavior. Think of Leroy Garrett, Carl Ketcherside, Daniel Sommers…which they would all label false teachers now because they left their side or would say “left the truth” and found grace, love and freedom in Christ. I really do pray the same for Johnny and the crew.
The difference to me now though is that they have been made aware of what they are doing, and are just being stubborn and obstinate. There is a huge difference in being ignorant and what they are doing. That is why I get so frustrated.
I am hoping that one day they will realize that their behavior is only causing damage for the cause of Christ, but God is going to have to be the one to reveal that to them-but ONLY when they are willing to listen.
Also, good points Rick, Chris, and Truth…
chris,
i am not smart enough tell you why he does what he does.
i have learned through time that i am not always right
about many things. i dont know as much as others who post here, but what i do know is that god helps
me or anyone else who is willing to be taught.
i know when love is the motive in someones actions.
i know that it is difficult to speak to any of the three
men in a civil manner. they will only allow it as long
as you agree with them.
the lord help me to be civil.
lee
I also meant to say that I hope that seeds are being planted somehow, or I probably would not stick around and see it as a futile endeavor.
guys and kat,
check out coreys site.
he invited me for a discussion.
let me know what you think.
the link is in one of his last posts
lee
Thank you for your kind words, Chris 🙂
For someone who says they know the bible Johnny has not shown any spriritual fruits.
lee, we are all students of the bible and always will be, and I don’t know as much as some of the others that post here either. We may not see some things the same and I don’t think anyone can agree one hundred percent with another person on everything anyhow. I do believe spiritual gifts do still exist and don’t deny the power of God to give such gifts along with other gifts. I believe we both know how great the mercy and grace of God is. And I do believe that along with others here we both diligently seek the truth in Gods word, Amen. And although neither of us will ever be perfect or have perfect knowledge I believe we both have a desire and passion in our hearts to follow Jesus and in the eyes of God we are together with Him. See Johnny would never be able to see this because it doesn’t fit into his agenda and I believe Johnnys agenda and his need to build his ego makes him blind to the love that God has for people.
Man, I’m not sure where to start.
Here’s what I’m not understanding – if JR and his acolytes will take the time to read the blog, to take their potshots and all, why won’t they take the time to engage in serious discussion?
Now, given, they aren’t always treated well here, but I truly believe that’s the bed that they’ve made. If they came on and started participating in discussion, I think they’d find things wouldn’t descend like they do when they just come in and lob their verbal grenades (yes, I like that phrase). But my experience with this brand of hyperconservative is that they can’t engage in discussion without becoming demeaning and pushing the conversation into descent.
The crazy thing is that they take their valuable time, when they could be out “knocking doors” or whatever it is they do, to come and pick a little, talk a little, pick a little, talk a little, pick pick pick talk a lot pick a little more. Even when they are confronted with legitimate questions.
It’s all pretty surreal.
Nathan, I showed this thread to a friend this afternoon. She’s got a strong background in psychology. Has done a lot of research into things like post-traumatic stress disorder, among other things. I also gave her some more details about the kind of people in question.
In her words, Johnny Robertson and his followers are displaying “extraordinarily dangerous” classic cult behavior. That the symptoms of his followers represent unusual programming and that Robertson himself could be a “study in projection”.
Without being able to know anything else about the people, she said it was her opinion that Robertson and his followers are detached from reality and “will probably never” be convinced or persuaded by anything that we can do. And that barring some kind of medical attention, Robertson will continue on like this.
(There are some other things she observed as well, but I’m holding those close to vest.)
I appreciate that perspective, but I also believe Luke 1:37 which says, “For with God nothing will be impossible.”
We need to make prayer for these folks a part of our daily lives. Also, not let them draw us in when they come onto the blog and write provocative (or just plain silly) things.
I just wanted to say, after what transpired on this thread today…
…that tonight I have been reminded again, not once but TWICE over, that there is not only a God but He is wonderful and majestic beyond description. And that He is not limited by the trivial nonsense of legalists and others who would put obstacles between He and us.
Tonight is one of the happiest nights that I have had in a very long time, all thanks and praise to God. And by the end of this weekend, it looks like there’s going to be plenty more amazing things to come.
I defy anyone to tell me that these things are not the good work of the Lord. A God Who doesn’t care whether we are “baptized” or “remain faithful” by some measure of man. A God Who is graceful and loving far apart from mortal ken.
If anyone wants me to answer back to Johnny Robertson and his cult…
Johnny, tonight I am smiling. Because God is good.
What has happened tonight repudiates everything that you and your “Church of Christ” cult stands for.
And if y’all don’t hear from me during the weekend, it’s probably because I’ve got better things to do with what God has blessed me with, than to hang around trying to counter some poor sap who doesn’t have either a biblical or an intellectual leg to stand on.
God is good, folks. And God doesn’t give a flying rat’s butt about “denominations” either. Just that you seek Him, that you desire Him. Don’t let the Martinsville Madmen con you into thinking otherwise.
Later,
Chris
Did anyone notice how when Johnny did speak about his past mistakes not only did he say he isn’t willing to testify to help other kids, but he also he seems unable to totally accept responsibility for the wrongs he has done and still seems to put the blame on others by saying it was the wrong crowd that caused him to do what he did to go to prison, instead of stepping up and being a man and just say that he did wrong. This just shows even more that Johnny is no more perfect even now than the rest of us because when people do something wrong it is hard to sometimes admit a wrong we did do without having to blame someone else for it. And also by the way in which Johnny acts and lies now how do we know it wasn’t Johnny who was the wrong crowd for others who followed, and also now he shows to be the wrong crowd for christians to be around because he displays behavior to others that is not anything of Christ. Johnny says he has turned his life around but yet he still tries to destroy people who are good christians.
Johnny has paid his debt. Been forgiven by God , but not by you all? Just goes to show that in the denominational world you are never forgiven. I’ll want no part of that thankyou
faithful,
Christianity (in and out of denominations) is all about forgiveness.
For example – there isn’t a person I can think of in my life right now from whom I am withholding forgiveness for some wrong that has been done to me. Even towards JR, who once told me that he wanted to “defeat destroy” me, I don’t hold any malice. I wish he would do the right thing and acknowledge that he misspoke, but I can’t do it for him. That’s between JR and God.
Further, I can’t think of anyone whom I have wronged that I haven’t attempted to make things right. I have even apologized to hyperconservatives on this blog the times when I’ve let myself get caught up in the heat of conversation and said something that I shouldn’t.
Concerning the fact that Chris brought up JR’s past – his point is that a person who has experienced God’s grace to the point that JR has should be a person filled with grace, willing to give it out by the truckload. Many people don’t see that at all from JR in his public persona. From a PR perspective, this is something that should really concern you guys if you are truly trying to reach the community for the sake of the Gospel.
Of course, y’all are perfectly within your rights to just continue to choose to ignore these sorts of things, and continue to get immediately defensive, to continue punching back, rather than doing the constructive thing and analyzing criticisms and adjusting things to make yourselves and your message more effective.
faithful, yes Johnny has paid his debt to society for the crimes he committed and I believe we do consider that fact. Though he doesn’t show to really be that much of a changed man, that is our point. Seems now instead of using a gun he uses a camera along with his arrogance to harm innocent people to build his own ego. And it’s not the crimes he did then that any of us are to forgive him for it is how Johnny in the name of Christ displays disrespectful and destructive behavior toward all of us as christians. And I believe many of us here have shown that we want to be able to forgive Johnny and some of us have tried to show him Gods mercy and grace and we have shown that by prayer we want God to work in Johnnys life. And for me personally I have had many times when people have wronged me physically, emotionally and spiritually and though the memories will still be there it was with Gods help I have forgiven those who did these things to me.
On August 9, 2008 at 11:59 am faithful Said:
Johnny has paid his debt. Been forgiven by God , but not by you all? Just goes to show that in the denominational world you are never forgiven. I’ll want no part of that thankyou
– faithful, JR took my past all the way to Texas – told Shawn “Heath” about it and Shawn threw it in my face over and over…and not once have I ever brought Johnnys past up against him – matter of fact, I came to his defense regarding his past ( even after I knew he had took my past to Shawn )
More and more, Robertson sounds like a very insecure person.
Chris, I think you may be right. I have talked to others wihin the ultra-hypercon movement, even one ex-preacher in the church of Christ ( I won’t use his name ) and they say that living under such bondage makes them insecure – I mean if you sin, youre lost, then saved, sin again – youre lost, then get saved again, sin again – youre lost, then get saved again…I think you get the picture. You have these kind of folk dealing with this battle of “not knowng” and then you have the others who think they arent sinning or “holier than thou” and these go on the attack and prey upon the people…either way you have people insecure.
churchesofChrist,
Would it surprise you to know that witnesses have come forward who have reported that at least twice now, Johnny Robertson has declared himself to be God?