The title of this post is a question that hyperconservative churches of Christ (like the 3 TV hosts) love to ask. The implication to their question is that they (the hypercons) are not just in a church that is in the Bible, but that they are in the only modern church that is in the Bible. In other words, they are the only ones who are theologically correct (TC). They are the only ones who are really Christians.
Of all the arguments for tearing down the walls of denominationalism I’ve heard (and I’ve heard some good ones), this idea is to the Christian faith what New Coke was to soft drinks.
or the Yugo was to automaking.
In other words, it’s a load of complete rubbish that deserves to become a distant memory in the minds of those who have heard of it.
Unity = Good
Understand that I am not arguing against unity. Even a casual reading of the New Testament will yield to the reader that God desires for His children to be unified. Here are just a couple of examples:
Jesus said,
“I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me…May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me” (John 17:20, 21, 23).
Paul said,
“We were all baptised by one Spirit into one body – whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free – and we were all given the one Spirit to drink” (1 Corinthians 12:13)
Unity is a good thing. But the proponents of the “where’s your church?” idea aren’t interested in unity. They are interested in conformity – to their limited interpretations of Scripture.
Conviction = Good
Understand, also, that I’m not arguing against having convictions. I agree completely with the old expression that goes, “you have to stand for something or you’ll fall for anything”. Or, as Scripture says, “But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.” (1 Corinthians 2:15)
The problem I have is this idea that the name of your church is enough to condemn or save you. “Why are you in a church that’s not in the Bible?” The hyperconservative asks. Well, why are they in a church that’s not in the Bible?
Churches That Are In The Bible
The churches in the Bible were located in the modern countries of Israel, Turkey, Italy, etc – in other words, in countries that are near and around the Mediterranean Sea. Did the person who asked this question pack up his or her things and move to this region? No? Then guess what – they aren’t in a church that is found in the New Testament.
In fact, you won’t even find the exact phrase “church of Christ” in the Bible at all! I’m still waiting for someone to answer the challenge to find “church of Christ” in the Bible. If they find it, I’ve got $1000 that I will give them.
But That’s Not What We Mean…
“But we mean why are you in a church that doesn’t act like the church in the Bible,” they might respond.
First, if you mean that, then why don’t you say that?
Second, my hypercon friends, I hate to tell you this, but you are also not in a church that acts like the church in the Bible. Let’s look at three basic ways in which you join the rest of us by not acting like the church we find in the New Testament:
1. The infamous holy kiss.
Hyperconservative churches of Christ don’t do this. Check here for more explanation.
1 Corinthians 11:5-6 says:
“But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved. For if a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered.”
Hyperconservative churches of Christ don’t follow this. At least not the ones in our area.
3. Tongues and Prophecies.
Sorry, I couldn’t find a good picture. We’ll just let Scripture speak for itself.
“Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues.” (1 Corinthians 14:39)
Hyperconservative churches of Christ forbid people from speaking in tongues.
So, gentlemen, I ask you… why are you in a church that is not in the Bible?
Wait! Stop! Let me give you the answer to that question.
The Answer
It doesn’t matter whether or not you are in a denomination. It doesn’t matter whether or not you can “find your church in the Bible”. All followers of Christ are in Christ’s church and we are all called to be a part of something that transcends differences – that transcends denominations.
The churches that existed in the first century, that Paul and the other NT writers were addressing, were all different. They were dealing with different issues. They lived in different cities with different cultures and values.
Where did they find their unity? In the words of the New Testament? No, because they didn’t have the New Testament. They had the words of the ones who taught them, the letters from various NT writers, what we call the Old Testament (if they were Jewish), and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Their unity was in the Gospel of Christ.
“…[S]tanding firm in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel.” (Philippians 1:27)
This is at the heart of the New Testament – the Gospel of Christ. What is the Gospel of Christ? The hypercons would, by necessity, link baptism to the Gospel. And while Baptism plays a part in the life of a Christian, baptism is not the Gospel (1 Cor 1:17).
So, what is the Gospel?
“But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.” Romans 5:8-10
Like the church of the first century, this is where we find unity. We don’t conform to the teachings of a few hyperconservative church of Christ TV host/pastors, or Baptist pastors, or Lutheran pastors, or [fill in the blank] pastors… we conform to Jesus, and Jesus alone.
And there – in that conformity and only in that conformity – will we be a part of the Lord’s church – a part of the worldwide churches of Christ as found in Scripture and through the last two thousand years.
No matter what the sign outside reads, or whether or not we are in a church that’s “not in the Bible”.
Answering the Church of Christ 
TD,
Since you brought it up, can you give a passage of Scripture that tells Christians not to use instruments in worship? Or – to be more exact – a passage that tells Christians that they need to stop using instruments, which were authorized specifically in the OT, and discussed as being a part of heavenly worship in the book of Revelations?
Let me save you a moment of time – no. You can’t find a passage of Scripture that dis-authorizes the use of instruments in worship. Further, you can’t find a passage of Scripture that condemns their pre-authorized continued usage.
Remember a few posts ago where you said “if you come to visit with us and we are doing something that we are commanded not to do, we’ll stop”? Did you mean that? If so, then stop condemning others for using instruments in worship. Why? Check my earlier post that quotes Romans 14 for the answer to that question.
ACoC said:
In fact, you won’t even find the exact phrase “church of Christ” in the Bible at all! I’m still waiting for someone to answer the challenge to find “church of Christ” in the Bible. If they find it, I’ve got $1000 that I will give them.
Gods word says:
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
ACoC: since you deny there is but ONE Church are you also willing to deny ONE Spirit, ONE hope, ONE LORD, ONE faith, ONE baptism, ONE GOD.
And the Church of Christ marches on.
“And the Church of Christ marches on.”
And like lemmings, it’s headed over the cliff…
On July 28, 2008 at 9:24 am Chris Knight Said:
“And the Church of Christ marches on.”
And like lemmings, it’s headed over the cliff…
Lu 4:28 And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,
29 And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.
seems like its been tried before Chris
Keep reaching, T.D. You still did not find the phrase “church of Christ” in the Bible and are not going to find your sect of the church of Christ in there OR that it is the ONE TRUE CHURCH-no matter how badly you want it to be.
Yes, there is one faith, one Lord, one church-made up of PEOPLE who are following Christ. Did you miss the entire premise of what Nathan is trying to say?
Great thoughts, Nathan-REALLY great stuff. Like I have said before, and worth saying again…unity does not equal uniformity and never will.
On July 28, 2008 at 9:57 am Katherine Said:
Keep reaching, T.D. You still did not find the phrase “church of Christ” in the Bible
Ac 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Katherine:
Are you going to deny this is talking about Christ?
Do you have to actually see Church of Christ to believe?
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
To believe WHAT? I believe IN Christ-that is where I put my faith, my trust, my hope, and my life. None of that is ever going to be put in an institutional church which cannot save me simply because of its name. They are my family and my community-I love them dearly, but my faith lies solely in Christ and what He has done for me. I follow HIM.
On July 28, 2008 at 10:11 am Katherine Said:
To believe WHAT?
Ac 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Do you believe this is talking about the Church of Christ?
I think if we would take a hard look at sin, self, and our inability to come to God, we would be forced to conclude that salvation is Gods work and we have no power within our fleshly state to exercise faith, without God first changing our hearts. I will take this a step further – we can not come to God in faith without first being regenerated. In other words regeneration proceeds faith. John 1:13 (King James Version) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Romans 9:16 (King James Version) So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 1 John 5:1 – “everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ HAS BEEN born of God”, John 6:63,65 “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life… Therefore have I told you that no man can come to me, unless it be given to him by my Father.” Only pride would make man think he can work up enough faith and works to save him, when the bible states clearly that fallen, unregenerate man – in the flesh can NOT please God. “…even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have you been saved)” (Eph. 2:5). Here Paul locates the time when regeneration occurs. It takes place ‘when we were dead.’ With one thunderbolt of apostolic revelation all attempts to give the initiative in regeneration to man are smashed. Again, dead men do not cooperate with grace. Unless regeneration takes place first, there is no possibility of faith, because man in his fleshy state does not even desire God, nor can he…the flesh profiteth nothing. So, if we are in the Church, we are there because of God, not due to our will.
Which Church of Christ are you referring to? The “church of Christ” that we walk into with the name outside or the Church of Christ (which encompasses all disciples of Christ)?
Can you agree with this?
“I believe IN Christ-that is where I put my faith, my trust, my hope, and my life. None of that is ever going to be put in an institutional church which cannot save me simply because of its name.”
On July 28, 2008 at 10:32 am whatdoesthebiblesay Said:
Therefore have I told you that no man can come to me, unless it be given to him by my Father.”
wdtbs:
Why did you not give the next verse?
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
I dont deny that part – but its still God that does the work. Fallen man can not within himself come to God without God.
On July 28, 2008 at 10:34 am Katherine Said:
Which Church of Christ are you referring to? The “church of Christ” that we walk into with the name outside or the Church of Christ (which encompasses all disciples of Christ)?
Katherine:
You just can’t give a yes or no answer can you?
I don’t think that “T.D.” is a real human being.
T.D. seems more like the failed artificial intelligence program that a third-year community college student was working on, that got loose in the wild and then found a Bible database to latch onto.
I mean, T.D. does nothing but post meaningless rhetoric, followed by wholesale copied/pasted scripture.
I’ve seen A.I. that imitate human conversation before, and T.D. seems a lot like one of those. But ultimately he fails the Turing Test bigtime.
How much faith can a dead man have TD ? Can the man in his flesh and sinfulness work up faith to please God ? God must change him first !
Of course, I can-but in order to answer the question, it is vital I know which one you are referring to-because you tend to confuse the two. I cannot answer your question unless I know which one you are talking about.
I am not here to play a game.
“But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God which is through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth to be a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.” (Romans 3:21-26 NKJV)
T.D., Can you agree with this?
“I believe IN Christ-that is where I put my faith, my trust, my hope, and my life. None of that is ever going to be put in an institutional church which cannot save me simply because of its name.”
“For in one Spirit (not in water) are we all baptized into one body … and have all been made to drink of (or receive) one Spirit.” I Cor. 12:13, R.V.
Col. 2:12. In Col. 2:12 – “Buried with Him in baptism” is as truly without hands as is “the circumcision made without hands” of verse 11. This is not water which is done with hands, but the baptism done by God is that which adds one to the Church.
On July 28, 2008 at 10:55 am Katherine Said:
Of course, I can-but in order to answer the question, it is vital I know which one you are referring to-because you tend to confuse the two. I cannot answer your question unless I know which one you are talking about.
Katherine :
I know J think I am talking aboutesus didn’t shed his blood for denominations,so which one do you think I am talking about?
Ac 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Do you believe this is talking about the Church of Christ?
Sorry that should read:
I know Jesus didn”t shed his blood for denominations so which one do you think I am talking about?
If you are asking do I believe that it is talking about the spiritual Church of Christ which cannot be pinpointed down to a building or a specific title, then yes.
Jesus shed His blood for the CHURCH, His people. We created denominations, but there are members inside those who stay make up the spiritual body of Christ.
Thanks, I got the jest of the message.
I have answered your question-now can you please answer mine?
T.D., Can you agree with this?
“I believe IN Christ-that is where I put my faith, my trust, my hope, and my life. None of that is ever going to be put in an institutional church which cannot save me simply because of its name.”
In other words, what I was trying to say is that Jesus shed His blood for the people INside of the churches (denominations-which is a human word we created)…actually He shed His blood for everyone, but we still have to respond in faith to His message.
All saved people make up the one assembly, congregation, body, church. Regrettably, they do not all serve in unity without distinctions. They join separated, organized groups – churches of their choice. Some groups may be organized internationally while others may be congregational. These churches are joined.
Those who have submitted to the will of Christ in baptism are the forgiven ones composing the one body. Most of them then join some segregated group with whom they worship and serve. They serve in denominations or sects. A denomination is a differing group that claims to be a part of the whole. They choose a name to identify (denominate) themselves. A group that claims to be the whole ekklesia-assembly-church is a sect though no group admits to being a sect. Sectarian groups also choose identifying names. God’s congregation of all the saved ones needs no name so no name is given in the Scriptures. Since there is no “Scriptural” proper name, no name we may choose is “more Scriptural” than another.
Am I saying that God saves denominational churches? No, not one or all of them! Yet he just may save his faithful ones who have served among them. But those groups are in error! Right! There has never been a church free of error, and any group that claims to be free from all error is deceived and arrogant. Such a claim only adds to its errors! If any are saved, it will be in spite of errors.
On July 28, 2008 at 11:18 am whatdoesthebiblesay Said:
“For in one Spirit (not in water) are we all baptized into one body … and have all been made to drink of (or receive) one Spirit.” I Cor. 12:13, R.V.Col. 2:12. In Col. 2:12 – “Buried with Him in baptism” is as truly without hands as is “the circumcision made without hands” of verse 11. This is not water which is done with hands, but the baptism done by God is that which adds one to the Church.
wdtbs:
Did they both go down into the spirit here?
Ac 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
wdtbs:
EXACTLY, whatdoesthebiblesay…
You said it very well. We are the ones who have separated and divided ourselves into groups-and I hate that we are all so divided and some refuse the prayer for unity…but since we have divided ourselves-it is vital that we focus on our common bond in Jesus and His beautiful gift of salvation…and that He calls us to be His hands and feet to the world sharing with them the Good News of His love, grace, and mercy.
On July 28, 2008 at 11:25 am Katherine Said:
T.D., Can you agree with this?
“I believe IN Christ-that is where I put my faith, my trust, my hope, and my life. None of that is ever going to be put in an institutional church which cannot save me simply because of its name.”
Katherine:
If you are “In Christ” you are in the Church of Christ, and you must worship him in spirit and truth.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
One cannot knowingly go through life offering up vain worship to God, willfully practicing things which He never authorized and expect to go to Heaven.
On July 28, 2008 at 11:35 am Katherine Said:
EXACTLY, whatdoesthebiblesay…
You said it very well. We are the ones who have separated and divided ourselves into groups-and I hate that we are all so divided and some refuse the prayer for unity
1Co 1:10 ¶ Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Did Paul ever say join the church of your choice?
nod, did you tell johnny to get my money yet?
you seem to put reverence into what paul said.
so you must do everything he said, right?
everything………….
really? everything?
On July 28, 2008 at 11:27 am whatdoesthebiblesay Said:
All saved people make up the one assembly, congregation, body, church. Regrettably, they do not all serve in unity without distinctions. They join separated, organized groups – churches of their choice. Some groups may be organized internationally while others may be congregational. These churches are joined.
wdtbs:
If you really believe this, why dont we have the pope preach his doctrine in the baptist church one week and the baptist preacher preach his doctrine in the methodist church one week, and the jehovahs witness preacher preach his doctrine in the christian church one week. Dont kid yourself, God is not going to have all this division in heaven and if you dont get it right here you ainta gonna go.
On July 28, 2008 at 12:05 pm lee Said:
you seem to put reverence into what paul said.
lee:
Was Paul not wtitting by inspiration of God?
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Youre missing my point TD. Take off the Johnny classes just for one minute. I am not denying water baptism – I am saying that the true baptism is one of Gods work, not ours.
1Co 1:10 ¶ Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Did Paul ever say join the church of your choice?
– TD, be honest for one second, please ! Everyone here knows how devided the churches of Christ are, so dont even go there. And the reason Paul addrssed them was because of the very things you guys do today. TD, have your assembly read the entire book of Romans and then question them afterwards – will they all speak the same things ? Will they all answer the same ?? NOPE !!! Come on TD, at least be honest a little bit
ACoC tries to make point but does not read the whole context:
1 Corinthians 11:5-6 says:
“But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved. For if a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered.”
Read on:
1Co 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
On July 28, 2008 at 12:25 pm whatdoesthebiblesay Said:
Youre missing my point TD. Take off the Johnny classes just for one minute. I am not denying water baptism – I am saying that the true baptism is one of Gods work, not ours.
wdtbs:
It is the operation of God and It still involves water.
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Who gets to decide what everyone must think, speak and practice? TD ? Johnny ?. There are scores upon scores of such schisms among siblings in the Family of God, each demanding all others “speak the same things” THAT THEY DO. The result, of course, is the sad reality of a grossly dismembered Body, instead of a unified, functional whole. To demand of diverse disciples of Christ that ALL of them must fully agree in thought, speech and practice with the most vocal and narrow-minded among us is a guaranteed formula for factionalism! We see it all around us, and it is shameful.
My goal TD is to focus upon Christ, His work, His blood, and not water baptism. Water baptism may be just as you say, but lets keep our focus upon the One who died and paid the price that we might be saved. If God works in water baptism to grant forgiveness or that’s the place we “contact” the blood, lest still keep the focus upon Jesus Christ and His work.
God never designed His chosen children to be mindless, regurgitating, goose-stepping robots! Had this been His intent, He could have created an “original,” and then just cloned the rest from that perfect model. This He did not do. He gave us minds with which to think, free will with which to act, and individual personalities to motivate us in our Christian journey. That all men and women in the church must of necessity think, speak and act exactly alike is contrary to our divine design. We are created to be different in countless ways, even in our perceptions and preferences, and this divinely designed diversity is, in fact, the very KEY to the successful functioning of the universal One Body of our Lord Jesus Christ. After all, “If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired. And if they were all one member, where would the body be?” (1 Cor. 12:17-19).
On July 28, 2008 at 12:28 pm whatdoesthebiblesay Said:
Will they all answer the same ?? NOPE !!! Come on TD, at least be honest a little bit
If you agree that 5+5 = 10 and I say it equals 8 are we both right? No of course not. Therefore if we are going to walk together I must come to the logical conclusion that 5+5=10. If you say it equals 11 and I say 8 then we are both wrong but the fact remains it equals 10.
If you say we can worship in the church of our choice and faith comes by hearing the word of God, then in order for us to walk together I must hear it by the word of God.
Am 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
Those who have read all 16 chapters of 1 Corinthians — and if you haven’t, stop now and do so! — are well aware that there was significant diversity among the members of the church in that city. Indeed, that diversity was applauded and celebrated by Paul. The problem in Corinth, however, was that the members were becoming so focused on their differences, rather than rejoicing in that which they shared in common, that they were beginning to separate from one another into feuding factions. “For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you” (1 Cor. 1:11). The Greek word for “quarrels” is eris, meaning “strife, disputes; a contentious disposition.” In 1 Cor. 3:3 it is declared to be a disposition of the fleshly nature [see: Gal. 5:20].
They were contending with one another over personal preferences. “Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, ‘I am of Paul,’ and ‘I am of Apollos,’ and ‘I am of Cephas,’ and ‘I am of Christ'” (vs. 12). The party spirit was raising its ugly head in the church in Corinth. Disciples were beginning to rally to the side of mere men; elevating one ministerial mission over another; taking human ideas and promoting them to divine precepts. This can only result in “schisms” in the church (the very term used in 1 Cor. 1:10), which is the Greek word schisma, meaning “a splitting apart.” The Pulpit Commentary makes the following observation: “Their ‘contentions’ are defined to be equivalent to ‘religious partisanships’ … none of them were wise enough and spiritually-minded enough to hold aloof from parties altogether. They prided themselves on being ‘party men'” (vol. 19, p. 5). Paul mentions four “splits” in the church at Corinth at this time:
TD, youre attempting to make the bible easy as 5 + 5 when you know its not, if so the same people knowing 5 = 5 would also know things the same, but we all know that its not so simple. Its takes digging and studying and it’s life of constant learning and at times we are worng. Be honest TD….come on I know you know this
On July 28, 2008 at 12:41 pm whatdoesthebiblesay Said:
My goal TD is to focus upon Christ, His work, His blood, and not water baptism. Water baptism may be just as you say, but lets keep our focus upon the One who died and paid the price that we might be saved.
wdtbs:
You cannot preach Christ and not preach baptism for remission of sins.
So, what was Paul calling for in the passage you sited ? The first statement he makes is: “Now, I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing…” (KJV). The problem in the city of Corinth was that the disciples there were making some rather divisive declarations — “I am of Paul … I am of Cephas … I am of Apollos,” etc. A sectarian spirit was taking control not only of the hearts and minds of these brethren, but of their tongues as well. “This expression is used here because the Corinthians were saying different things (1 Corinthians 1:12), and Paul seeks the abandonment of such party slogans” so that there might be no divisions among them.
When disciples of Christ are so focused on proclaiming and declaring their own party positions and patterns, their declarations are devoid of that “one heart and one voice” of which Paul speaks. There is one family! One Lord! One Father! One common hope of a common destiny! We are a people of a shared Savior … shouldn’t we all be voicing this, instead of our countless sectarian shibboleths?! Paul longed to hear of his fellow brethren “standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel” (Philp. 1:27). There is indeed something that binds us together, but it is not our personal perceptions, preferences or patternistic practices. It is the glorious good news of God’s grace poured out upon us in the life and sacrifice of His Son Jesus Christ. What is the key to understanding 1 Cor. 1:10? It is 1 Cor. 1:9 — “You were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.” That which binds us together as one, which elicits from our hearts the praise of a united voice, is JESUS! When we cease proclaiming HIM, we cease “speaking the same thing,” and begin proclaiming OURSELVES! “I am of Paul … I am of Cephas.” I am One Cup … I am Non-Institutional … I am Non-Instrumental … I am Non-Sunday School. Brethren, it is time for our voices to unite in a common declaration: “We are one in Christ Jesus!” “We are in fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ OUR Lord.”
On one occasion, Jesus turned to Peter and said, “You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but man’s” (Matt. 16:23). Being of the same mind is simply setting our collective mind upon GOD’S interests. “For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit” (Rom. 8:5). We are told that the “enemies of the cross of Christ” are all those “who set their minds on earthly things” (Philp. 3:19). We, as disciples of Christ Jesus, are to set our minds on the things which are above, and not on the things of this present age (Col. 3:1-2). The disciples in Corinth were setting their minds on the things below, and it was causing strife. Their unity, harmony and oneness were being quickly eroded. Paul feared he would find “strife, jealousy, angry tempers, disputes, slanders, gossip, arrogance and disturbances” (2 Cor. 12:20) when he came to visit them. Therefore, he urged them, “be made complete … be like-minded, live in peace!” (2 Cor. 13:11).
Mere harmony and agreement is not Paul’s ideal, but a unity of right understanding and of judgment” The Corinthians needed to come together in unity of purpose, rather than being split apart by a host of party preferences. Paul wrote to the saints in Philippi, “make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose” (Philp. 2:2). We need a common focus as the people of God; a common love; a common purpose. When each disciple is intent upon promoting his own agenda, schisms form. However, a genuine harmony and oneness is enjoyed when we set aside such party preferences and focus together on simply sharing Jesus with those who do not know Him. Our views and opinions about Jesus are not redemptive; it is when HE is lifted up that men truly find healing and cleansing.
On July 28, 2008 at 12:47 pm whatdoesthebiblesay Said:
Those who have read all 16 chapters of 1 Corinthians — and if you haven’t, stop now and do so! — are well aware that there was significant diversity among the members of the church in that city. Indeed, that diversity was applauded and celebrated by Paul.
wdtbs:
was this division applauded and celebrated by Paul?
1Co 5:1 ¶ It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
You cannot preach Christ and not preach baptism for remission of sins.
– I never stated you could TD. But, how often do you talk about Christ and His work, His blood? I am hanging up the hat for now, you and I will not agree – I guess thats because we are humans…
I believe the bible is very clear that those who believe in Him and believe it is Jesus that saved us from our sins by the grace of God, He will give us salvation. That is God with His grace and mercy has the power to save us, not our works. If our works saved us we would give our praise to ourselves and to the works instead of the praise all going to God, and God is greater than any work we can do. Our works cannot save us because we still will sin. Anyone who says they don’t sin is a liar and is calling God a liar. We all should try to do better in our good works, which God knows what is in our hearts. And when we are in heaven God will reward each of us for the works we did on earth. I believe the bible shows God sent Jesus to save us from our sins not to condemn us for them.
TD. Nobody is saying sects and divisions are good. Paul clearly condemned them, because they were focused upon men, rather than Christ. Again, if you honestly believe all people can understand everything in the bible the same, put this to the test TD. I haven’t found one Church of Christ yet to take this offer. Have everyone in your assembly read the book of Romans, and then allow ME to question them. Trust me, they will not speak the same things. So, will you kick aside those who don’t agree with your supposed understanding of the book of Romans when the test is over?? This is almost laughable TD, you know this to be true. Im late already, I have to go….I will check back later.
On July 28, 2008 at 12:49 pm whatdoesthebiblesay Said:
TD, youre attempting to make the bible easy as 5 + 5
I dont understand why you want to make it difficult.
seems pretty simple to me.
Mr 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
On July 28, 2008 at 1:04 pm whatdoesthebiblesay Said:
you and I will not agree – I guess thats because we are humans…
Wrong guess wdtbs:
Is that what you are going to say to Jesus. The reason I didn’t obey the gospel was because I was human and I just couldn’t agree with you.
I will add this TD and then I am out. I have sit in congregations of Church of Christ members and have heard them give wrong answers during the Sunday School class – they clearly were not speaking the same things TD. Was this because they were lost or because they were humans on various levels of understanding? These folk clearly were saved but didn’t understand everything, but this wasn’t what Paul was condemning. Now, if they were to say “I am of Johnny” or “I am of James”, then we have a problem. I am not saying we can take scripture and make it mean what we desire. I am saying we are imperfect beings and we fall short and we sometimes aren’t right about thinks we read, but this should devide us. You may understand that you should have the Lords Supper each Sunday, and someone may not, but that’s no reason to kick aside your brother in Christ.
TD, are you Jesus ! You are a human being like me, who may be wrong about things. Are you saying you will tell Jesus you was right about it all and never wrong?? Will you boast to Jesus about how you had it all figured out and then other bloggers just missed it ??
On July 28, 2008 at 1:31 pm whatdoesthebiblesay Said:
You may understand that you should have the Lords Supper each Sunday, and someone may not, but that’s no reason to kick aside your brother in Christ.
wdtbs:
Who would you consider not your “brother in Christ”?
“whatdoesthebiblesay”-you are saying some awesome things-thank you for sharing. I had to specifically “Amen!” this:
“There is indeed something that binds us together, but it is not our personal perceptions, preferences or patternistic practices. It is the glorious good news of God’s grace poured out upon us in the life and sacrifice of His Son Jesus Christ. What is the key to understanding 1 Cor. 1:10? It is 1 Cor. 1:9 — “You were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.” That which binds us together as one, which elicits from our hearts the praise of a united voice, is JESUS! When we cease proclaiming HIM, we cease “speaking the same thing,” and begin proclaiming OURSELVES!”
I wish everyone could understand this, putting their agendas aside, step out of the throne room of condemnation-and focus only on Christ. It sure would clear up a lot 🙂
On July 28, 2008 at 1:39 pm whatdoesthebiblesay Said:
TD, are you Jesus ! You are a human being like me, who may be wrong about things.
wdtbs: WOW!
You really are confused, Yes we both can be wrong but the bible is right and when it says:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
I know that the Church is the body and the body is the Church,and there is but one.
Ac 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Ac 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Johnny Robertson said that he’s here to “defeat destroy” those who do not believe as he does.
Johnny Robertson has also made it clear that he hates “liberals”.
That guy who shot up that church in Tennessee yesterday did it because he did not like the “liberal” beliefs of the church.
One person has told me today that it wouldn’t surprise him/her if we heard of one of the local “Church of Christ” cultists coming into a church at some point and opening fire on the congregation.
There are reasons why some people in a number of churches in this area are now bringing firearms to worship services.
And Johnny Robertson, James Oldfield and Norm Fields have been named among those reasons.
After what happened yesterday, it wouldn’t surprise me if the number of those armed were to go up.
Let’s put it this way: if I were Robertson, Oldfield or Fields, I would darned well think twice before attempting another ambush at a church they don’t like, as they are known for.
There’s going to be more coming out about this in the near future. But in light of yesterday’s events, I felt led to tip my hand to that much at least. For the good and well-being of everyone. Even if I don’t particularly agree with some people.
On July 28, 2008 at 1:31 pm whatdoesthebiblesay Said:
I will add this TD and then I am out. I have sit in congregations of Church of Christ members and have heard them give wrong answers during the Sunday School class – they clearly were not speaking the same things TD. Was this because they were lost or because they were humans on various levels of understanding?
wdtbs:
I sat in school and heard students continuously give wrong answers to questions over and over again, was this because they were ignorant or they refused to study?
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
TD, how many times did you read the bible to gain the understanding you supposedly have ? Did you have to study to show yourself approved or did you get it all right the first time you read the bible? What if you died before you understood it all ? Name one person on earth right now who understand every single passage in the bible as God meant it ? Now pull out your 5+5 card, and make such a claim. I feel so sorry and sad for you TD, you seem to want us all to believe you have reached some level or perfection to such a degree that you are never wrong. You keep stating passages that you know most people agree on, why not site some passages that you know people don’t agree, and for the third time all your assembly of believers to read the entire book of Romans and then allow ME to quiz them…..you honestly think they all will “speak the same things”? Or will some people think differently and answer differently? I know you can see through this TD, but you are allowing your pride to drive you around. You are just mocking what you have heard other CofC preachers say, that’s all you’re doing. Even when you can this you refuse to take off the Church of Christ denominational sun glasses and admit it. God forbid you think for yourself.
And, yes. We must study to show ourselves approved. Again TD, allow your assembly of believers to STUDY the book of Romans and then me quiz then….you don’t want to do this do you? You know they could STUDY for a week and still some would give different answers, well, all but you. You have this all figured out and no way could TD be wrong, but them others, they just don’t STUDY like good and faithful TD. TD, come off the high horse, and stop pretending as if you have reached a level others haven’t
On July 28, 2008 at 2:16 pm Chris Knight Said:
There are reasons why some people in a number of churches in this area are now bringing firearms to worship services.
This is good stuff Chris,This will probably go a long way in stopping Johnny defeat these liberals. I know I would like to visit a church where the members were packing pistols…. NOT
what time is class over TD ? You are in the “preaching school” Johnny started, right ?
On July 28, 2008 at 2:29 pm whatdoesthebiblesay Said:
And, yes. We must study to show ourselves approved. Again TD, allow your assembly of believers to STUDY the book of Romans and then me quiz then….you don’t want to do this do you?
YES, YES, YES
I do want you to do this Please.
We meet in Danville @ 120 american legion blvd. on Tue. night @ 7 p.m.
In Martinsville, Wed. night @ 7 p.m. at 823 starling ave.
In Reidsville Thur. night @ 7 p.m. at the holiday express confrence room.
I knew you would say this, so you can make some footage for your broadcast. I am not falling for that. I can do this with questions from here. Will you prep them to answer the same way?? I would meet at a place with your people without Norm or any other preachers present and no hidden cameras. I would gladly fix up something legal in writing. If people answer things not the same, what will be your out ?
Well T.D., conventional wisdom teaches that anyone church that has members bringing personal weapons is likely not one that could be easily defined as “liberal”.
Parse that as you will.
“I know I would like to visit a church where the members were packing pistols…. NOT”
Well then T.D., you should think long and hard about visiting any church, if it’s your mission to badger and accost them with your hateful attitude, since you won’t be knowing which churches have members that are packing heat.
Might be conducive to y’all’s health if you stayed out of ALL of ’em that aren’t “Church of Christ”, and stuck with your own places of worship.
Speaking of which, why would James Oldfield leave his own congregation on a Sunday morning to harass another? Doesn’t sound like good biblical pastorship to me…
I almost laughed when you said you were visiting at Norms place, and our topic being that all people do not understand things the same. Boy, could I make some comments on this ! I will not do so right now. TD, I am right down the road from you guys, even visited you guys before….like I said, I know you don’t answer the questions the same.
On July 28, 2008 at 2:44 pm whatdoesthebiblesay Said:
I knew you would say this, so you can make some footage for your broadcast. I am not falling for that. I can do this with questions from here.
wdtbs:
Who gathers the eggs at your place?
Gathers the eggs?
On July 28, 2008 at 2:48 pm Chris Knight Said:
Might be conducive to y’all’s health if you stayed out of ALL of ‘em that aren’t “Church of Christ”, and stuck with your own places of worship.
Chris:
Are you threatening us?
“Who gathers the eggs at your place?”
– the question should be who lays the eggs?? Johnny? or Norm ? Well Class is over for us TD, time to go home in a bit.
wdtbs:
I know who lays the eggs.
Nice chatting with you.
looking forward to your visit.
“Are you threatening us?”
Nope.
But any “church” that would paint a bomb on the side of its own building, just so it could cast blame on people that it doesn’t agree with, is not a group that I would advise anyone to associate with lightly.
On July 28, 2008 at 3:14 pm Chris Knight Said:
“Are you threatening us?”
Nope.
But any “church” that would paint a bomb on the side of its own building, just so it could cast blame on people that it doesn’t agree with, is not a group that I would advise anyone to associate with lightly.
Chris:
What are you talking about?
“He who believes and is baptized shall be saved;but he who does not believe will be condemned.”
God does not tell us He will condemn us if we aren’t baptized. But He will condemn us if we do not believe. We must believe what Jesus did He did to save us and does save us and by Gods grace He will forgive us. Through our faith by His grace we are saved.
T.D.,
Yeah, you probably wouldn’t know, would you?
I mean, it’s very odd that Robertson, Oldfield and Fields didn’t see particularly enough bothered about it that they would file a police report about the incident, even though it was supposedly a bomb threat.
It’s also odd that not even Charles Roark at WGSR – one of the worst television journalists that I’ve ever seen – is willing to touch the story (which says a lot right there). It hasn’t shown up in any other local media either. So I can’t blame you for not knowing about it… if you seriously didn’t know anything about it.
But that hasn’t stopped them from trying to pin the blame on the group that they had just spent the previous few days debating on local television. Heck, Robertson and faithful/Mitch were saying from the very beginning that it was the Nation of Islam that did that.
I went to the Danville Church of Christ on the afternoon following the supposed “vandalism”. I took pictures of the place.
And there is something very wrong with what Johnny Robertson and his fellow cult members are claiming.
On July 28, 2008 at 3:22 pm Truth Said:
“He who believes and is baptized shall be saved;but he who does not believe will be condemned.”
God does not tell us He will condemn us if we aren’t baptized.
truth:
Are you saying He who believes and is not baptized will be saved?
I never read of anyone being added to the Church that was not baptized.
Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
“I never read of anyone being added to the Church that was not baptized.”
Never heard of the Forty Martyrs of Sebaste, have ya?
Because of our faith in God and our love for God we should try to do works. But without faith we would not desire to do such works. It is believing that by Gods grace He will forgive us, that is what saves us. Because we will always sin it is only Gods grace that will save us. Yes I believe when a person turns to Jesus for forgiveness God will forgive them and God will save them.
When anyone turns to Jesus for forgiveness I believe at that very moment God does forgive and save them.
hi td,
now you are admitting that you personally do
everything that paul did.you arent married because it is apparent how you care for the things of the lord.
you must be in top physical shape because you keep your body in subjection just like paul, no overeating for you. and certainly you wouldnt forbid anyone speaking in tongues, paul encouraged it. and on and on……….
now to the good part , unlike so many of the others on
this site , i dont want yours or johnnys acceptance.
you fellows are no more members of THE church than the pharisees. you arent going in youselves neither will you allow others to go in.
you only succeed in making twofold children of hell than yourselves.
you asked earlier who do you consider your brothers…..
not you or anyone like you.
now im just saying what you have been saying the whole time, just a whole lot plainer.
amen
lee
lee I agree. TD, faithful, Johnny and others who are so sure they have all knowledge of the bible and sin in their pride and boasting, they do seem very much like the Pharisees.
ACoC: since you deny there is but ONE Church are you also willing to deny ONE Spirit, ONE hope, ONE LORD, ONE faith, ONE baptism, ONE GOD.
TD, did you even read the post? I’d like for you to quote where I “deny there is but ONE church”.
Let me make it easy for you – I deny that the church where you assemble is the ONE church, but I don’t deny Christ’s church is the ONE church. I affirm that Christ’s church is not located in ONE building – or in ONE assembly – but Christ’s church is found all over the place, in all the different gatherings of people who call Him Lord.
Notice, other readers, how TD avoided most of the challenges I made to the 3 TV hosts claim (and TD’s) that theirs is the only church “found in the Bible”?
hello td
is this thing on?
It’s obvious they avoid certain parts of the bible and avoid certain things we say. I think because it shows too much of the real truth and it doesn’t match up to their interpretation.
Gotta go, long day tomrrow.
On July 28, 2008 at 10:15 pm lee Said:
hello td
is this thing on?
Lee, the reason TD didnt reply back is bacause class was over at the “Johnny preaching school”. This is like training for TD – TD could care less about us and care less about reaching lost souls on here. This, to him is just “training day”.
Former Church of Christ preacher Jason Hairston had one of the best sermons I have heard on this subject. Johnny even boasted about it being the best sermon on denominationalism that he had heard. Mr. Hairston is no longer on TV promoting this false gospel – least someone wised up.
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.”
God has the only power to save, by His grace we are saved.
The words “church of Christ” is not singular but plural in the Scriptures, which is a problem for those that call themselves the exclusive Church of Christ.1 Cor.1:2, 1 Cor.10:32, also Rom.16:16 calls them the churches of Christ as Nathan has pointed out already. Rev.1:20 says Christ holds the seven golden lamp stands, the seven stars and the messengers (angels) of the seven churches in his hand showing His control. This becomes a problem for our local CofC groups that claim the name “church of Christ”, since it is plural.
There is one true Church, but it is not found in a certain denomination or group by itself. Those who claim you must join their group or Church to be right with God, only prove they do not understand what the word Church or body of Christ means. It is not exclusive but inclusive, as it is found in the heart of all those who have accepted the true Jesus, and have come to God the way He has provided (through His son on the cross), and hold to the essentials of the faith. Whether one is Lutheran, Anglican, Baptist, church of Christ, Presbyterian, Episcopalian, Charismatic, or Pentecostal, etc. The Church transcends denominational barriers, it exists within denominations, as well as outside of them. This is the Universal Church that has continued from the beginning of Pentecost. While denominations may have differences on peripheral issues, they do hold to the core beliefs that make them all part of the body of Christ, the Church.
“You who make your boast in the law do you dihonor the law? For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” as it is written.
“There is none righteous, no, not one.”
There is not a person or church on this earth who can say that they have not broken the laws in one way or another. There was only one who was perfect on this earth without sin and that was Jesus. We ALL do sin and will sin. We all need Gods mercy and it is by His grace we are saved not our works.
dihonor should be dishonor
As I’ve said before…
If Robertson, Oldfield and Fields were to somehow persuade EVERYONE in North Carolina and Virginia that their “Church of Christ” is the one true church and that everyone was baptized into it, within a year their “unity” would be shattered from infighting and power struggle. Oldfield would order his henchmen to assassinate Fields and then it would be him and Robertson turned on each other trying to be the only one who’ll control church doctrine. And then after they finally wiped each other out, it’ll be their respective lieutenants (Mitch, etc.) trying to destroy each other.
Robertson, Oldfield and Fields refuse to confess that THEY want to be the ones in control, not Christ.
If there were a perfect church on earth, which there isn’t, none of us would be able to go there because as soon as any one of us did it would no longer be perfect. There is not a church on earth that a person can attend that is perfect because in every church there are people and people do and will sin.
They are PAID to go to school? Man, I took the wrong track! 😉 Think how many hungry children that money could feed, but instead it is being spent on teaching men how to attack their own brothers and sisters in Christ. How marvelous…
In other words, I am wasting my time trying to convince him of the difference between the Church and their church. It simply does not fit their agenda, and once again proves that Johhny’s agenda and plan sounds nothing like Christ, but is simply full of pride and arrogance. I figured it was some training tool when he abruptly left around 5:00 eastern time.
Though, he has seemed the most cordial of all those who have come and has actually engaged in conversation, unlike some who run away shouting “NTFK” as they go. You can tell when you get TOO close to the truth, because like a famous line in a great movie: “You can’t handle the truth!” That is when verses like those telling me I should be silent or not teaching a man come out 😉
“They are PAID to go to school? Man, I took the wrong track!”
Think about it Katherine: Johnny Robertson can NOT persuade his followers enough to take his class on their own…
…so Johnny Robertson has to bribe them to take it!
That’s not showing much confidence in his own doctrine, that he has to pay people to believe in it.
Be of good cheer: the best is yet to come 😉
If you guys would look closer, you would notice a lot about times and other things. It’s like a puzzle with all of the pieces, but the problem is you don’t see the pieces.
The guys at school take lunch the same time too …hint…hint
Oh, I’ve noticed 😉
just play along….I have for a long time now
td,
now how about that description i gave of you?
tell me you are a mirror image of paul, after all
you keep quoting him. come back and dispute and bring faithless with you. you must be quite the model of paul.
ill follow you as you follow paul who follows jesus, but wait a minute you dont follow jesus……..just johnny.
lee
Most likely Johnny told him to back off…..see, he slipped yesterday about where he was churching and about school….hint, hint
well if i may,
i noticed a long time ago that they must
attend the same training.
i mean after all no one around here says
“Bap-tiiiised” like the southside three.
i cant be the only one who hears it.
lee
I noticed on a cofC video on youtube that another cofC speaker said “bap-tiised” like that. What’s that about? If you don’t say “bap-tiiised” like they do, does your “bap-tiiism” count? 😉
By the way, at the cost of coming across as immodest…
Remember my short film “Schrodinger’s Bedroom”, that ran after my live TV response to Johnny Robertson? The one that Robertson didn’t like at all?
One of the stars of it will be in “Nights in Rodanthe”, an upcoming movie with Richard Gere.
We’re very proud of her 🙂
I saw that on your blog. Congratulations to your friend!
Is her church in the Bible?
I don’t know, or care, about her church. But she is a sweet and devout follower of Christ and she radiates that love to everyone around her.
I’m pretty sure that’s all that matters to Christ. And that’s all that needs to matter to me, too.
😉
“councilor……. come out come out wherever you are.”
cape fear
“would you like to play a game?”
war games
come on out td, faithless i just want to talk
dont be afraid.
“you will be…….. you will be”
star wars
you guys storing up snowballs to throw?
remember in war, its always prudent to follow up a lull
in the battle with a crushing, decisive attack.
lee
I think they’re hiding low, Lee. Think about it…
– Robertson’s “school” has been exposed by T.D. himself to be a sham, that Robertson has to bribe people to attent.
– The “bomb threat” is so dubious, there’s little doubt that it was done by the Robertson/Oldfield/Fields cult to their own building.
But that ain’t the half of it.
Patience, folks. It’s coming. Sooner than later.
i listen to so much defensive talk on this site,
thought i would turn it around.
i dont like um and im tired of the silly representatives
they send out.
still waiting for the first installment on my $1000.
take it out of the preacher fund john.
aint mad at ya
lee
On July 28, 2008 at 4:01 pm Chris Knight Said:
Never heard of the Forty Martyrs of Sebaste, have ya?
Hi folks:
I see you all missed me while I was away.
Chris: What scripture were you quoteing there?
TD-touchdown, you still have failed to prove that YOUR meeting place is THE CHURCH – The one and only church. And, I am not referring to the building, but the people. I guess I should include the “meeting place” of James and Johnny too, so that means these three “meeting places” are the only ones around here that are THE CHURCH, right??
On July 28, 2008 at 9:54 pm answeringchurchofchrist Said:
TD, did you even read the post? I’d like for you to quote where I “deny there is but ONE church”.
On July 29, 2008 at 10:38 am whatdoesthebiblesay Said:
The words “church of Christ” is not singular but plural in the Scriptures,
Wdtbs:
you contradict your own self.
On July 30, 2008 at 10:14 am whatdoesthebiblesay Said:
TD-touchdown, you still have failed to prove that YOUR meeting place is THE CHURCH
You still dont get it do you?
Mt 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Brick and mortar is not the Church, Those that have obeyed the gospel in Martinsville have been added to the family of God, Those who have obeyed the gospel in Danville have been added to the family of God, Those who have obeyed the gospel in California have been added to the family of God,etc,etc etc. All these are Churches of Christ.
Mt 11:16 ¶ But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
Ummm…”answeringchurchofchrist” and “whatdoesthebiblesay” or two different people.
Welcome back, T.D. I am still preaching 😉
Ummm…”answeringchurchofchrist” and “whatdoesthebiblesay” ARE two different people.
Welcome back, T.D. I am still preaching 😉
And what do you deem as “obeying the gospel”? How do you decide who is your brother or sister? Do they have to do believe EXACTLY like you to earn that title?
When the church had been scattered throughout the land because of persecution, they “went about preaching the Word.” They didn’t retreat behind four walls to “do church.” with a sign in the front “Church of Christ” meets here. They were the church, and they impacted the lives of those with whom they came into contact. This simply means that the church (the people of God, both individually and collectively) becomes a living part of its community, not separate from it. The “church” of Jesus, when properly perceived, is simply eternal Truth embodied and on public display. It is love in action on a daily basis…not arguing, fighting, and trying to put others down
When TD says obey the gospel he means first to obey the 5 step plan of salvation and then after that – obeying the gospel means believing just as he does, or risk hell fire and brimstone. If you were to do the 5 step formula to be saved and then you just couldn’t agree with them on music or the Lords supper, you have not obeyed the gospel….least as they see it anyways. Its really not obeying the gospel, but obeying their views of the gospel
Churches That Are In The Bible
ACoC said:
The churches in the Bible were located in the modern countries of Israel, Turkey, Italy, etc – in other words, in countries that are near and around the Mediterranean Sea. Did the person who asked this question pack up his or her things and move to this region? No? Then guess what – they aren’t in a church that is found in the New Testament.
ACoC:
How were these Churches designated?
Were they baptist churches, methodist churches, etc? Did they all teach differing doctrines?
On July 30, 2008 at 10:29 am Katherine Said:
Ummm…”answeringchurchofchrist” and “whatdoesthebiblesay” or two different people.
So is The Father, The Son, but they both speak the same thing.
On July 30, 2008 at 10:32 am Katherine Said:
And what do you deem as “obeying the gospel”? How do you decide who is your brother or sister? Do they have to do believe EXACTLY like you to earn that title?
Katherine:
How do the baptist decide who is their brother or sister, do they have to believe and do as the baptist doctrine says to be considered as members, do they consider jehovah witness as their brother, and would they go along with the methodist on sprinkling for baptism?
Nathan and I are not the same person. I dont even know what Nathan looks like. But anyways…
TD, where did your invitation song come from?? Show me one place in the bible where they sung “the invitation song” and I will give you 100- bucks. You guys rag on Billy Gramn for having an alter call, when you have something man made too.
On July 30, 2008 at 10:36 am whatdoesthebiblesay Said:
It is love in action on a daily basis…not arguing,
Ac 19:8 ¶ And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
Ac 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
TD,
Before we get it into it again, I need to underscore something Katherine said the other day about you. I appreciate that you are discussing and not being obstinate. Please tell your fellows that they should pay attention to that. They could learn a thing or two from your style.
Now, as to your question to me – how was the church in the New Testament designated? Hold onto your hats… here are the titles and names of the church in the New Testament:
Body of Christ.
Ephesians 1:22-23 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Bride of Christ.
Revelation 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife.
Churches of Christ
Romans 16:16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.
Church of God.
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Church of the Living God.
1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Church of the first-born.
Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
City of the Living God.
Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Family in heaven and earth.
Ephesians 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
Flock of God.
1 Peter 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
Fold of Christ.
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
General assembly of the first-born.
Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Golden candlestick.
Revelation 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
God’s building.
1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.
God’s husbandry.
1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.
God’s heritage.
1 Peter 5:3 Neither as being lords over God’s heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
Habitation of God.
Ephesians 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Heavenly Jerusalem.
Galatians 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Holy city.
Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
House of God.
1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Hebrews 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
House of Christ.
Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Household of God.
Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Israel of God.
Galatians 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Lamb’s wife.
Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Revelation 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife.
Mount Zion.
Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
New Jerusalem.
Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Pillar and ground of the truth.
1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Spiritual house.
1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Temple of God.
1 Corinthians 3:16-17 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
Temple of the Living God.
2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people
Vineyard.
Matthew 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Please note that in that list you don’t find “baptist” or “presbyterian” or “lutheran” or “church of Christ”.
Ac 16:25 ¶ And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
The jailor must have felt invited, for he ask “what must I do to be saved”
WOW, Did you all get that, he had to do something.
Great points Nathan !
TD, we all are fallible creatures; none of us have arrived at perfect perception. Thus, we each fall far short in our perceptions, our practices, and, yes, even in our preaching. This does not necessarily make us fools (although some may well be), nor does it make us false teachers (though some may well be). Nor does it make us evil, godless creatures. It simply means we are human; we are finite; we are fallible. Sometimes we are simply blinded to certain truths. There may be any number of reasons for this, ranging from an obstinate refusal to consider any other explanation than our own, to an innocent lack of awareness. Thus, simply because someone may have a foolish perception does not necessarily mean they, as a person, are a lost soul. That goes much deeper than some of our mistaken beliefs and practices, just as being a “false teacher” goes far deeper than merely having embraced a false teaching. After all, who among us has achieved 100% perfection of perception with regard to ALL Truth? If you have failed to perceive even one eternal Truth correctly (and I imagine that applies to each of us), then you have embraced a “false teaching” per your views. Does this make you a “false teacher”? Of course not. Otherwise, we would ALL be “false teachers.” This particular phrase, as employed in the pages of the New Covenant writings, goes much deeper than one’s beliefs and teachings … it goes to one’s motivation; it has reference to the nature of one’s heart.
On July 30, 2008 at 11:15 am answeringchurchofchrist Said:
Please note that in that list you don’t find “baptist” or “presbyterian” or “lutheran” or “church of Christ”.
ACoC:
Were they all teaching different doctrines?
Who did they belong to?
I can answer both these questions with one word each, can you?
Before you jump to baptism TD – Baptism is NOT a part of the Gospel message. Rather, it is one of the aspects of our response of faith TO the Gospel message. Baptism would fall under the category of Doctrine: critical teaching to which one who has heard the gospel must be immediately exposed so as to know how to respond to God’s gracious offer contained in the Gospel. Salvation enters the equation in that God’s gracious offer spurned results in condemnation. The “Gospel” is the message of what God has done for us through the gift of His Son’s self-sacrifice for our atonement and redemption. Our response to that offer will determine our eternal fate. If we choose to accept that gift of life — and baptism is a demonstration of that accepting faith — then we shall receive immortality. If we refuse His gift, our fate will be an everlasting forfeiture of life. Thus, immersion is clearly NOT a part of the Gospel, but is rather an integral part of our response to it.
On July 30, 2008 at 11:15 am answeringchurchofchrist Said:
Please note that in that list you don’t find “baptist” or “presbyterian” or “lutheran”
Amen,and Amen. and none of those designations were referring to these either, but they are referring to The Church of Christ.
Thank you ACoC.
On July 30, 2008 at 11:28 am whatdoesthebiblesay Said:
and baptism is a demonstration of that accepting faith — then we shall receive immortality. If we refuse His gift, our fate will be an everlasting forfeiture of life. Thus, immersion is clearly NOT a part of the Gospel, but is rather an integral part of our response to it.
wdtbs:
Thanks for the scripture that says baptism is a demonstration. What verse was that again?
On July 30, 2008 at 11:28 am whatdoesthebiblesay Said:
Before you jump to baptism TD – Baptism is NOT a part of the Gospel message.
Re 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
They are referring to the Church that Jesus purchased with His blood, they aren’t referring to any particular group labeled Church of Christ, nor one having a sign in front of their building “Church of Christ.” TD, which of the 25 sects within the Churches of Christ are the True and One Church? Let me guess, the one you attend. Its quite arrogant to believe you have reached a level of perfection and have it all figured out….when the truth is – you are puffed up with supposed knowledge.
On July 30, 2008 at 10:32 am Katherine Said:
And what do you deem as “obeying the gospel”? How do you decide who is your brother or sister? Do they have to do believe EXACTLY like you to earn that title?
T.D. answered:
Katherine:
How do the baptist decide who is their brother or sister, do they have to believe and do as the baptist doctrine says to be considered as members, do they consider jehovah witness as their brother, and would they go along with the methodist on sprinkling for baptism?
T.D., I am sure this is part of your training, but I did not ask about Baptists, Jehovah’s Witness, Methodists. I know they are the ones you choose to attack, but I asked what YOU believe people must do to “obey the gospel”? How do you decide who your brother or sister is? Must they believe EXACTLY like you?
Aren’t you supposed to always be ready for an answer, or has Johnny not taught you that part yet?
“For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.”
1 Cor 1:17
Baptism is not the Gospel.
“Amen,and Amen. and none of those designations were referring to these either, but they are referring to The Church of Christ”
And where is “church of Christ” in Scripture?
We can go around and around this until we’re both blue in the face, TD, but you will not EVER find “church of Christ” in Scripture.
As to the question “who did they belong to”, it’s easy. Jesus. I’ve never said otherwise.
On July 30, 2008 at 10:29 am Katherine Said:
Ummm…”answeringchurchofchrist” and “whatdoesthebiblesay” or two different people.
T.D. said:
“So is The Father, The Son, but they both speak the same thing.”
Did Johnny tell you to say that? I hope so, because that is a very illogical answer.
You got the two mixed up-it’s ok, it happens. We are fallible humans, and that is ok to admit, too. We all make mistakes. None of us are perfect. Once you finally admit that, things will be a lot easier.
On July 30, 2008 at 11:39 am T.D. Said:
On July 30, 2008 at 11:28 am whatdoesthebiblesay Said:
Before you jump to baptism TD – Baptism is NOT a part of the Gospel message.
Re 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
– TD, Paul said it not me !
“Re 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”
While we should not add to or take away from the word of God, it should be pointed out that this passage is only referring to the book of Revelation-i.e. “the words of the book of this prophecy”. The Bible was not canonized until many years later of this writing-therefore, even though it is found at the end of the Bible-does not necessarily mean that it is referring to the entire Bible.
It doesn’t even prove your point anyway. The Good News of the Gospel of Jesus is His death, burial AND resurrection. To add anything to that is not good, either.
So T.D. is back?
Must be lunch break at Johnny Robertson’s “I’ll Pay You To Attend!” Ministry School.
Somebody has been caught in lie here . I was told the site is not tabout the 3 local preachers any more. Good thing I droped by to catch you in another lie.
Baptism is not part of the Gospel TD. You are just listening to what Johnny, Norm, and James are telling you. Paul was pretty clear about this, as Nathan pointed out. Is repentance part of the gospel TD ?? TD, go in scripture and get the definition of what the gospel is – not what Johnny tells you. Again, Paul will tell you word for word what the gospel is…
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
On July 30, 2008 at 10:36 am whatdoesthebiblesay Said:
It is love in action on a daily basis…not arguing,
T.D. said:
Ac 19:8 ¶ And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
Ac 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
I don’t get how you guys miss sooooooooooooooooo much of the vital important message of God’s message. Do you even acknowledge LOVE? That God is LOVE, that He has called us by His love into His presence, that He sent Jesus to us because He first loved us…that two of the greatest commands are to love Him and love our neighbor as ourselves, to even love our enemies, turn the other cheek, walk the extra mile, give them our coat, etc etc etc…That if we have not love, we don’t have Him??!!
Why do you just skip OVER the most important message of all and run to disputing, factions, dividing, and attacking? WHERE do you get the authority to do that?
God said love Him and love people, serve Him and serve others, walk with humility, gentleness, respect, longsuffering, forgive each other, bear with one another in love…do you get the picture??!!
God is love-try and get that through your head. If that is at the center-then all of the agendas start to fall away. If it is not-then you are at the center, where God should be.
On July 30, 2008 at 11:51 am answeringchurchofchrist Said: As to the question “who did they belong to”, it’s easy. Jesus
ACoC:
So you would agree they were all Churches of Christ, plural,making up The Church of Christ, singular.
All teaching the same doctrine right?
Jesus was raised for our justification. So the Gospel is something objective. It is the message of who Jesus is and what He did. And it also has a subjective dimension. How are the benefits of Jesus subjectively appropriated to us? How do I get it? The Bible makes it clear that we are justified not by our works, not by our efforts, not by our deeds, but by faith – and by faith alone. The only way you can receive the benefit of Christ’s life and death is by putting your trust in Him – and in Him alone. You do that, you’re declared just by God, you’re adopted into His family, you’re forgiven of all of your sins, and you have begun your pilgrimage for eternity.”
Ac 2:37 ¶ Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Not in the message huh
If it’s not part of the gospel why did the eunich bring it up?
Ac 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
On July 30, 2008 at 12:00 pm Katherine Said:
While we should not add to or take away from the word of God, it should be pointed out that this passage is only referring to the book of Revelation
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
And now faithful is back.
Don’t you have at least two more churches to spray-paint bomb threats on the sides of, Mitch?
Just don’t spray-paint a bomb on a church building that you guys don’t own, Mitch.
Your chances of getting wounded or worse have gone up lately. Parse that as you will.
Can we trust your judgement when we’ve caught you lying?
“The Bible makes it clear that we are justified not by our works, not by our efforts, not by our deeds, but by faith – and by faith alone.”
That verse is talking about works of the law of Moses which new testament baptism is not a part of the law of Moses.
The only place in the bible that faith alon is mentioned it is in the negative . I know you have to hate this verse
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
(KJV)
You nust hate these too
Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
(KJV)
You do realize if you are accusing me of commiting this crime you are actually liable? I noticed you didn’t try for the school board opening Chris? Was that just a ploy for fame the first time?
On July 30, 2008 at 12:09 pm Katherine Said:
I don’t get how you guys miss sooooooooooooooooo much of the vital important message of God’s message. Do you even acknowledge LOVE?
Joh 14:15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.
Ga 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
TD, are you a fallible creature; have you arrived at perfect perception? Have you ever been mistaken about something you have read in scripture?
On July 30, 2008 at 12:00 pm Katherine Said:
While we should not add to or take away from the word of God, it should be pointed out that this passage is only referring to the book of Revelation
T.D. said:
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
I am not denying this-I agree, but things have to be kept in their proper context. When you rip passages out of their proper context and claim them as doctrine, judging people’s souls based on YOUR interpretation-then you are certainly ADDING to the Word of God where God never intended.
So it’s ok to add or take away from the rest of the book.? Interesting
Yes, T.D. if you love God-you will keep His commandments…and you know what? His commandments are not burdensome as you guys want to make them.
Though, you guys show no love, mercy, grace to people-as God has commanded, nor many of the things God has commanded…so how are you showing love to God? By attacking people who don’t believe just like you? By condemning them to hell when you don’t even have that power in the first place? By persuading them by your arrogance that you have it all figured out and that if they would just follow your human interpretations of what will save them they will make it?
Right-that is love. You are still COMPLETELY missing the point of God’s real message-and ONLY because you don’t WANT to. That is your biggest mistake.
No, “faithful”/Mitch…who apparantely found time you did not have for us…
if you will go back and read above and stop twisting things out of their context-I said we should not add to or take away from the Word of God…
though you guys add plenty and yank the best part of the message of God out of His Word.
You said just rev
On July 30, 2008 at 12:27 pm Katherine Said:
I am not denying this-I agree, but things have to be kept in their proper context. When you rip passages out of their proper context and claim them as doctrine, judging people’s souls based on YOUR interpretation-then you are certainly ADDING to the Word of God where God never intended.
Katherine:
Did Paul say, When ye read, ye may understand, or when ye read ye may interpret? The bible was interpreted a long time ago, its written in english now Katherine.
Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
I see not much has changed here . Alot of dishonesty. I’ve got better things to do right now. I’ll be back later, maybe
Mitch, why didn’t your “church” file a police report?
Why did none of the media cover what would otherwise be seen as a terrorist threat against your church building? Could it be that they had no reason to take you seriously?
How did the bomb threat vanish so quickly?
Why were YOU so quick to blame the Nation of Islam?
Too much of this incident does not make any sense at all.
Most people do believe that your “Church of Christ” did this to their own building, as an attack on the Nation of Islam.
So Mitch, how much did Robertson pay you to attend his “preaching school”, LOL!!!
TD, when do Mr. Robertson and Mr. Jason Hairston plan to debate ?
T.D., do you have an answer for this our not? Or do you have to wait till class is back in session to ask Johnny? I don’t know if he has gotten around to the part of always having an answer for your faith yet, so I will help you out:
“But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.” ~1 Peter 3:15-16
Here are the questions AGAIN:
And what do you deem as “obeying the gospel”? How do you decide who is your brother or sister? Do they have to do believe EXACTLY like you to earn that title?
No, “faithful”-if you will go back and read, I did not say that. You are the dishonest one and everyone knows it. Don’t try to rub your dishonest off on us. At least we are consistent and don’t run away when it gets too tough or the truth is evident.
On July 30, 2008 at 12:26 pm whatdoesthebiblesay Said:
TD, are you a fallible creature; have you arrived at perfect perception? Have you ever been mistaken about something you have read in scripture?
Yes I have been mistaken, I spent a lot of years associating with different cults claiming to be followers of Jesus, Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostals,etc. Not understanding that this verse was not talking about them.
1Co 12:27 ¶ Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
Here’s the honest truth for you Mitch, take it or leave it…
You and your “Church of Christ” are fast becoming not only NOT welcome at a lot of other congregations in this area, but many of them are now actively on the lookout for your shenanigans. Even churches that your cult hasn’t harassed yet.
And they are willing to do whatever is necessary to make sure that not you or Johnny Robertson or James Oldfield or Norm Fields or anyone else of your cult is a nuisance on their property.
You have a hidden video camera? Big deal. I’ve now seen firsthand what other people are hiding because of what you are doing… and it brings whole new meaning to the phrase “In a battle of wits, you came unarmed.”
Again, you and your cohorts might want to think twice about accosting another church in the future.
Is that a threat? No. ‘Cuz I won’t be the one holding the gun that you might be looking down the barrel of, if you try this at another church again.
But I don’t have to tell you where such a thing might happen, either.
Best advice for you: stick to your own turf and your television shows, which are broadcast out of the only station that was desperate to take you on as as client.
You might stay healthier that way.
On July 30, 2008 at 12:40 pm Katherine Said:
And what do you deem as “obeying the gospel”? How do you decide who is your brother or sister? Do they have to do believe EXACTLY like you to earn that title?
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Lu 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Mt 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Ro 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Mr 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Ac 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name
of the Lord.
Re 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Katherine:
Did Paul say, When ye read, ye may understand, or when ye read ye may interpret? The bible was interpreted a long time ago, its written in english now Katherine.
Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
T.D.,
Please, be honest-we are humans, therefore we interpret. The Bible itself was interpreted by humans through several different languages. If were to read it straight Greek and Hebrew, we would most definitely interpret it differently. None of us have perfect knowledge, understanding or any of that…to say ANYthing else is arrogant and ignorant.
Even Paul did not have all wisdom or knowledge…as He says “you may understand MY knowledge”…not God’s knowledge as you would like to claim-but his limited, human knowledge.
Ok, T.D. so if someone has repented, believed and has been baptized into Christ-you will claim them as your brother or sister?
Let’s stick to the subject at hand, folks. We’re supposed to be discussing whether or not the argument “Are you in a church that is not in the Bible” is a valid argument or not.
Remember, the point of this blog is discussion of hyperconservative church of Christ teaching, not the “TV Three”, or any of their acolytes.
However, that being said, the “TV Three”, their teachings and church activities are fair game for inclusion in ongoing discussions since they are the local reps of the hyperconservative church of Christ movement in the region that birthed this blog. And, since they put themselves into the public arena four hours a week.
Thanks,
Mr. Answer
Ac 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
Katherine:
Is this the title you are referring too?
Mt 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Who does Jesus condider his family? Do they not have to do something?
And Mitch, in answer to your other question…
I chose not to run for school board this time, because the person representing my district is someone who is doing a very fine job already and has been a longtime friend, and I do not believe that I could add anything substantially better to what this person is doing already. When I found out who was my board member in the redrawn district, it never entered into my mind for a moment that I should run.
Based on your insinuation, there’s little doubt that you believe this is all about a “power trip” or something…
No wonder you can’t understand that to a lot of people in this world, there are things more important than personal ego.
That’s all your cult has, Mitch: its own fragile ego. That’s all you have.
T.D. said:
Yes I have been mistaken, I spent a lot of years associating with different cults claiming to be followers of Jesus, Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostals,etc. Not understanding that this verse was not talking about them.
1Co 12:27 ¶ Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
Does that mean now that you worship with a group that calls themselves the “church of Christ” that you have suddenly now arrived at perfect knowledge and could not be mistaken? Did you receive some magic power? How do you know that you might not be mistaken now if you thought you were in so many other groups?
The body of Christ is His PEOPLE-plain and simple. If Christ has saved them-they are IN His body-no matter if you accept them or not or if they worship with your particular group or not…and it is NOT because they worship with people who have DECIDED to declare themselves and associate themselves with a local group with the name of “____________ church of Christ”.
It was never set up that way.
On July 30, 2008 at 12:56 pm Katherine Said:
Ok, T.D. so if someone has repented, believed and has been baptized into Christ-you will claim them as your brother or sister?
Would Christ keep them in the family or cast them out if they did not confess him or remain faithful?
On July 30, 2008 at 1:00 pm Katherine Said:
How do you know that you might not be mistaken now if you thought you were in so many other groups?
Katherine:
Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
TD
Can you define what you mean by “remain faithful”?
You are skirting around my questions, and not answering them directly or honestly. You have most likely been trained to do this, but it is not cool.
On July 30, 2008 at 1:00 pm Katherine Said:
How do you know that you might not be mistaken now if you thought you were in so many other groups?
Katherine:
Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
You are just not answering this honestly. How do you know you did not hear the truth in the other places? How do you KNOW you are absolutely, positively, completely and directly in perfect harmony with God’s teachings, in the RIGHT church, with the RIGHT doctrine, and every other place was completely wrong-if you spent so much time on those?
Did someone tell you that you had “arrived”? Did Johnny convince you that everyone else was evil and he had the truth? That is what he says-and if that is not a cult, I don’t know what is.
Please just TRY and be honest.
n July 30, 2008 at 12:56 pm Katherine Said:
Ok, T.D. so if someone has repented, believed and has been baptized into Christ-you will claim them as your brother or sister?
T.D. said:
Would Christ keep them in the family or cast them out if they did not confess him or remain faithful?
Ok, T.D., let me rephrase my question since you are so focused on the 5 step plan:
If someone has repented, confessed, believed, been baptized and remained faithful (in the Biblical sense), would you THEN consider them your brother or sister?
On July 30, 2008 at 12:54 pm Katherine Said:
Even Paul did not have all wisdom or knowledge
Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Does this not say “all wisdom”
By the way, Christ does not cast people out who are trying to follow Him faithfully-because WE ARE NOT PERFECT. Thankfully, His blood shed on the cross took care of our imperfections and washes us whole 🙂
…and I meant to add-He does not cast people out who might not get a step right or in the right order.
He is not sitting in heaven with a checklist as some would like to think.
Katherine,
Do these “arguments” sound eerily familiar?
Echoes of Heath & Nova…
T.D. said:
Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Does this not say “all wisdom”
Do you EVER keep anything in its proper context??? You certainly don’t do it with our comments or with scripture.
Focus here…Paul does NOT have ALL knowledge LIKE GOD. Neither do you…neither do I…nor ANY of us. Period.
This is from a Church of Christ preacher TD:
http://www.freedomsring.org/45onetrue.html#toc
On July 30, 2008 at 1:15 pm Katherine Said:
By the way, Christ does not cast people out who are trying to follow Him faithfully-because WE ARE NOT PERFECT. Thankfully, His blood shed on the cross took care of our imperfections and washes us whole
– ITS SAD THAT THEY JUST CANT SEE THIS …
On July 30, 2008 at 1:13 pm Katherine Said:
If someone has repented, confessed, believed, been baptized and remained faithful (in the Biblical sense), would you THEN consider them your brother or sister?
Katherine:
If a person obeys the gospel and continues in a faithful life in Christ,yes they are my brother and/or sister in Christ.
Ummm…yes, Nathan it does. It is like they are all trained to be mindless clones spouting the same twisted theology that they don’t even understand. They quote the same scriptures-mostly out of context to ATTEMPT and prove something that isn’t even true-but in their “reality” it somehow is, while they ignore every other scripture that does not quite fit their mold.
It is a bit absurd.
Katherine:
If a person obeys the gospel and continues in a faithful life in Christ,yes they are my brother and/or sister in Christ.
Alright, we are back to square one: What do you believe is a “faithful life in Christ”?
T.D.,
By the way, if you believe what you said to be true, then you have many other brothers and sisters outside of the realm of your “church of Christ” 🙂
The Lord adds the saved to his one body, the church, which is not identified as the Church of Christ. All who are saved are in (and comprise) the church of Christ. Many of those who are saved then become members of a congregation denominated as a Church of Christ. Such a procedure is not directed by the scriptures. If this Church of Christ disassociates itself from other groups of the saved, it becomes a sect. We have been woefully misguided in thinking that being in the church of Christ is equivalent to being in a Church of Christ. The Lord adds us to his universal church by his choice and action, but we join a Church of Christ by our choice and action
On July 30, 2008 at 1:17 pm Katherine Said:
Focus here…Paul does NOT have ALL knowledge LIKE GOD. Neither do you…neither do I…nor ANY of us. Period.
Katherine:
I never said Paul had “ALL knowledge LIKE GOD”
De 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
Were not Pauls writings all from God?
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
And Mitch/”faithful”…
The word you are looking for is “libel”. Is Robertson teaching you how to spell, too?
And you and your “Church of Christ”, including Johnny Robertson, were already guilty of that on your own when you said that the Nation of Islam made the threat, without any other proof that they did.
Well, T.D. you guys act like you have PERFECT knowledge-like you have somehow “arrived” at the perfect, right, and complete interpretation of the Bible-and that if ANYone else believes anything different than you-they are wrong, condemned to hell, etc.
You said that you were wrong when you were in the other denominations, so why do you suddenly think that you have it all RIGHT in this one?
Katherine,
I think the craziest example of this was back when JR and company declared Corey (a self-declared hyperconservative) a liberal and insinuated (maybe categorically stated – I’ll have to go back and look) that he was unsaved.
AND COREY AGREES WITH THEM, DOCTRINALLY! Except he disagreed with their methods, and wouldn’t state categorically that those who disagree with him are hell-bound (saying that it was *gasp* God’s job to make that declaration, not him) and that got him the dreaded “liberal” label.
Absolute craziness.
On July 30, 2008 at 1:21 pm Katherine Said:
Alright, we are back to square one: What do you believe is a “faithful life in Christ”?
It does not matter what I believe, what matters is what does the bible say.
1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
You are absolutely right-it does not matter what you believe, unless what you believe comes from the Bible. It does only matter what the Bible says.
But you guys HAVE decided what makes tests of fellowship, what “correct” doctrine is, what the “right” church is, what is faithful, and who God will save…
when you DO NOT EVEN HAVE THAT POWER!!!!!
The Bible also says that those who believe will take up poisonous serpents and drink poison and that they won’t be harmed.
How much strychnine have you guzzled down at school today, T.D.?
I know, Nathan-it was pretty crazy. That revealed A LOT about them-especially their agenda and desire for control.
On July 30, 2008 at 1:28 pm Katherine Said:
You said that you were wrong when you were in the other denominations, so why do you suddenly think that you have it all RIGHT in this one?
Katherine:
The very reason you do not understand the bible is because you do not pay attention to what is written, I never said the Church of Christ is a denomination and if you think that it is you are sooooooo mistaken.
1Co 1:10 ¶ Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
That’s a good question that I’ve never seen these folks address, Chris.
What do you folks do with that verse, TD?
What I find funny is Johnny, James, and Norm are reading this blog, but not giving an answer. They would if the blog had a face like the Lion and Lamb ministries…so they send their members out on the blog….interesting.
Oh, but I DO pay attention to what is written!! I did not say that you have said it-you just simply won’t admit it. The “church of Christ is a denomination-which is MUCH different than the CHURCH of Christ, i.e. His people, His body. This is what you just refuse to understand, and what makes your statements absurd.
The fact that you think that somehow there was absolutely no truth and every other group was wrong, but yet somehow this group you have now aligned yourself with is the ONE true church, with perfect people, perfect doctrine, perfect interpretation, and absolute right understanding is ignorant, arrogant, and ludicrous. But you have been brainwashed and indoctrinated by Johnny to believe otherwise, even though plain truth has been place in front of your eyes.
If you would just be honest with yourself, you could see the absurdity.
By the way, there are MANY division and factions within the churches of Christ-therefore your own scripture goes back to you.
On July 30, 2008 at 1:49 pm answeringchurchofchrist Said:
That’s a good question that I’ve never seen these folks address, Chris.
What do you folks do with that verse, TD?
– They will attribute this to the apostles, but oddly enough the verses above this are one of their favs to teach baptism…they seperate the people here
“What I find funny is Johnny, James, and Norm are reading this blog, but not giving an answer.”
Johnny is certainly still reading my own blog.
On July 30, 2008 at 1:48 pm Chris Knight Said:
The Bible also says that those who believe will take up poisonous serpents and drink poison and that they won’t be harmed.
Ac 28:3 And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand.
4 And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.
5 And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
Chris:
Your comments show that you are not sincere about the word of God, therefore I probably wont be replying to you again.
So T.D., you’re saying that your “Church of Christ” is perfection incarnate, so this no longer applies?
Then logically, baptism can no longer apply either, since it was that “which is in part” and “shall be done away with”.
On July 30, 2008 at 1:53 pm Katherine Said:
Oh, but I DO pay attention to what is written!! I did not say that you have said it
On July 30, 2008 at 1:28 pm Katherine Said:
You said that you were wrong when you were in the other denominations,
On July 30, 2008 at 1:47 pm Katherine Said:
But you guys HAVE decided what makes tests of fellowship, what “correct” doctrine is, what the “right” church is, what is faithful, and who God will save…
when you DO NOT EVEN HAVE THAT POWER!!!!!
Try not to get so upaset Katherine:
Ro 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek
Once more I have to wonder if T.D. is a human, or a failed artificial intelligence program that some community college student came up with, before it got loose on the Internet.
Has anyone been able to elicit a deep and articulate conversation from T.D.?
He/she/it only seems capable of responding with soundbites and (often apparently random) quotes of scripture.
T.D., I know what I said, and I meant it-they are denominations. You said you spent time with the Methodists, Pentecostals, etc…
I am the one who said “other denominations”-I did not say you said it-but I did.
The “church of Christ” by definition, name, and all other qualities is a denomination…
not to be confused with the CHURCH, the body, the people, the disciples of Christ-that cannot be boiled down to a location.
I have places to go, things to do, and people to see.
Ps 69:13 ¶ But as for me, my prayer is unto thee, O LORD, in an acceptable time: O God, in the multitude of thy mercy hear me, in the truth of thy salvation.
I hope you all dont wait to late.
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
T.D. said:
Try not to get so upaset Katherine:
Ro 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek
Try not to patronize me, T.D. What “upasets” me is that you guys try to take the power of God and place it on yourselves, sitting in the throne room of condemnation with your pride and your egos-acting like you have it all figured out and it is just too bad for everyone else who has not come to your “right” interpretation.
It is arrogant, absurd, and downright ridiculous.
YOU and your friends, nor ANY of us simply DO NOT HAVE THE POWER to decide who God will or has saved, nor do you have the power to condemn…so stop trying to play God!! It only makes you look more foolish, prideful, and judgmental. You will most definitely have to answer to God for all of that.
On July 30, 2008 at 2:20 pm Katherine Said:
not to be confused with the CHURCH, the body, the people, the disciples of Christ-that cannot be boiled down to a location.
Were not these “locations”
Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus
And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna
And to the angel of the church in Pergamos
And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira
And unto the angel of the church in Sardis
And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write;
thanks for allowing me to be your brother td
so that makes faithless my brother too.
brother……… would you please ask uncle john for the thou he owes me?
your bro
lee
On July 30, 2008 at 2:24 pm Katherine Said:
nor do you have the power to condemn…
Katherine:
If you are in the Church, which I sincerely doubt, why would you worry so much about being condemned?
Ro 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
I’ve really gotta go, been nice
Oh, good grief T.D.-you know what I mean. If you don’t or are just refusing to understand, let me make it clearer…
The Church of Christ is not ONLY found where people meet with the sign of ________ church of Christ.
Get. this. through. your. head.
The Church, the body, Christ’s people, His disciples are just that-His people. You simply cannot keep boiling it down to a group of people who have denominated themselves into a group called the “church of Christ” and say they are the only, one true, right church. It was not the way God intended-only the way man has twisted. That goes for ANY group claiming they are the one, true church.
T.D. said:
Katherine:
If you are in the Church, which I sincerely doubt, why would you worry so much about being condemned?
Ro 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
You “sincerely doubt”? Even though, I have done the list of things above that you said you would agree they are your sister in Christ? Interesting. Not that I really care what you think or if you believe I am saved-because it’s not really up to you.
I am not worried about being condemned whatsoever. I know I am saved by the blood of Jesus; and the love, grace, and mercy of God. I put my faith and trust in Him, and not in what any man or woman thinks.
But, you still don’t have that power!! Why do you keep acting like you do?
You lean WAY too much on your arrogance and pride to get you by. You know what they say about the prideful…
T.D. is running away…
…’cuz Johnny hasn’t told him about how to deal with me…
…’cuz Johnny doesn’t know either, LOL! 😛
Did anyone notice a while back when Johnny, Corey, and James were hitting this blog, that they all pulled off at the same time? Here is how it went – Johnny was the one who said “lets give them what they want, let’s go on there and talk to them” and then when Johnny gathered enough info, he told them, ok, we can pull off the blog now. You see, it’s Mr. Robertson who controls the flow with these men. If Johnny says “jump” they ask how high.
Yup.
Johnny has more of what Lenin and Kruschev used to call “useful idiots” (their term, not mine) to use as cannon fodder.
On July 30, 2008 at 12:35 pm T.D. Said:
Katherine:
Did Paul say, When ye read, ye may understand, or when ye read ye may interpret? The bible was interpreted a long time ago, its written in english now Katherine.
T.D., to translate and to interpret are two entirely different things. Yes the Bible has been translated into English, but we still must intrepret the words that were previouly translated. Have you ever taken a foreign language?
wdtbs wrote:
Did anyone notice a while back when Johnny, Corey, and James were hitting this blog, that they all pulled off at the same time?
Randy…is that you? Regardless, you should all know that I don’t personally know anyone on this blog. I have never had any interaction with Johnny (or anyone else) outside of this blog. I don’t even live in the same state.
The fact that I rarely post here is due to the fact that I realized that I could accomplish no good here, not because Johnny told me to leave. Johnny & Co. say I’m too far to the left. Everyone else thinks I’m too far to the right. Whatever. I was basically being the church of Christ whipping boy for the regulars here. It appears that everyone is fine with T.D. taking my place. Good luck with that.
I still read the posts here fairly regularly and if there is ever a time that I can be of help to an honest person, or if someone specifically directs a question to me, I’ll probably jump in. Until then…you may commence grinding your respective axes.
Corey
Corey,
I am sorry that you thought you were the “church of Christ whipping boy”. I sure never saw you as that and would not put you in any of the same categories as Johnny and the bunch. T.D. did not take your place-you two are in different fields.
I was enjoying conversing with you and your cordial nature. You actually came on here to honestly discuss-unlike these other guys who do it for their training ground and/or agendas.
I honestly don’t have an ax to grind-even if it may seem that way. It is not even doctrine that I have the biggest problem with-it is when people take that doctrine and make it tests of fellowship and a way to attack people-as we have seen here. That is something you do not do, and is why Johnny could not accept you even though you agreed with him, and somehow deemed you as a “liberal”. Goes to show you how subjective those terms can be.
Anyway, just wanted to throw in my 2 cents. Hope you stop by more often.
Corey,
For what it’s worth, I came to realize that you are sincere in your beliefs. Not “left” or “right” at all. And that it’s wrong to characterize you as such. We may disagree, but I would certainly never put you in the Johnny Robertson camp. You’re much too better a person than to belong there.
Been gone all day. I see that Johnny’s boys TD and faithful although they say they can answer any question seems they are really incapable of doing so. They say they preach the gospel but all they have done is turn the bible into a book of hate.
Let’s summarize things regarding our current hyperconservative church of Christ commenters:
1) TD talks about “remaining faithful”, but won’t explain what that means.
2) TD is shown that the church has many names in the New Testament, but still stubbornly holds to the notion that one cannot be saved outside of a church with “__________ church of Christ” on the sign outside.
3) TD refuses to acknowledge that “church of Christ” is not found in the NT.
4) TD refuses to acknowledge that the church where he assembles does not look like a NT church in that it doesn’t keep some pretty basic commands.
5) And although TD isn’t answering all of these issues, I do appreciate that he is maintaining civility.
faithful’s comments don’t really warrant any sort of response at this point. Maybe if he’ll put away the formula and join us for some steak and potatoes…
Nathan,
I realized something tonight…
T.D., “faithful”/Mitch, Robertson, Oldfield, Fields, and the rest of their cult…
Their faith is not in Jesus Christ at all.
Instead, they have put their faith in what they think is their knowledge.
This is why they cannot grow spiritually. Why they are stuck in a dead end. They are damned to forever be ecclesiastical adolescents, impotent in their own power.
They cannot grow into what God would have them be, because they do not have God at all.
To seek after God in this earthly life, means a constant chasing after Him. It means a life of struggle and conflict, and oftentimes even doubt. This is a good thing though. Pain and struggle reminds us that God’s grace is sufficient enough to carry us through whatever oppresses us. Even Paul complained of a “thorn in my flesh”, that God would not remove. All the same, Paul was grateful for the grace of God. He was not comfortable or at peace with his own understanding.
In fact, scripture is quite clear that we are not to rely on our own understanding. To do so is to tempt having pride in our own wisdom… which is foolishness to God.
I think the allure that this twisted kind of “Church of Christ” has to some people, is that its leaders promise that it guarantees salvation per our own understanding, on human terms, apart from the grace of God.
This in turn feeds the power trip that Robertson, Oldfield and Fields are on. It’s why they are obsessed with “denominations”. It’s also why they really don’t give a damn about individuals.
Yes, I said “damn”… because the three local “Church of Christ” preachers do not care one iota whether a single soul is saved or is lost to Hell for eternity. They are only concerned with puffing up their “church” and puffing up their own egos.
You wanna know what these people are? Spiritually decadent. Worse than lukewarm.
They are also the biggest laughingstock of the area. And the most reviled. In the past two months, a lot of people have told me that Johnny Robertson is, in their opinion, a man so evil that he is “Martinsville’s own Jim Jones”.
But really, all they are, when you scratch away the television shows and the websites and the empty rhetoric they surround themselves with, are a very few people who do not have God and only have themselves.
And the only thing that compels them to continue is their imperfect knowledge, comforted by the flawed belief that they are capable of comprehending everything about an omnipotent God.
If that is not the acme of blasphemy, I don’t know what is.
wdtbs wrote:
Did anyone notice a while back when Johnny, Corey, and James were hitting this blog, that they all pulled off at the same time?
– oops. Sorry Corey. I meant Joey, not you. Please do forgive me.
On July 31, 2008 at 1:58 am Chris Knight Said:
It’s also why they really don’t give a damn about individuals.
Yes, I said “damn”… because the three local “Church of Christ” preachers do not care one iota whether a single soul is saved or is lost to Hell for eternity.
– more fuel for Johnny’s fire Chris !
hi corey,
with ax in hand…….
i hear a lot of cocers use the term honest person.
is that a catch phrase taught in your church?
lee
http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/HellEncyclopedia/WordDamn.htm
whatdoesthebiblesay,
It wasn’t a word chosen without deliberation.
I never use a word without deliberation.
And in this case, I didn’t know of a better word to use, to press the point.
As I’ve said before, it’s not the word itself that may or may not be evil. Words are merer instruments to convey thoughts and ideas. God could never judge us on simple words alone.
It’s the thought behind the words, and whether those thoughts are good or evil, that matters.
If Robertson has a problem with that, it will only serve to make him look the more foolish.
hi lee,
yes, it is a catchphrase
in our official handbook.
i have never had an
original thought in my life. i only
parrot what i’ve been taught.
amen?
[lee reference]
On July 31, 2008 at 12:06 am answeringchurchofchrist Said:
1) TD talks about “remaining faithful”, but won’t explain what that means.
1Co 4:1 ¶ Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man’s judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
2) TD is shown that the church has many names in the New Testament, but still stubbornly holds to the notion that one cannot be saved outside of a church with “__________ church of Christ” on the sign outside.
I have never stated we cannot use biblical designations.
Church of God
Church of the living God
Church of the firstborn,etc.
3) TD refuses to acknowledge that “church of Christ” is not found in the NT.
Just because you refuse to see something, doesn’t mean it is not there.
Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
4) TD refuses to acknowledge that the church where he assembles does not look like a NT church in that it doesn’t keep some pretty basic commands.
In the first place I dont assemble at the church, I assemble with the Church, and as I have stated before if you come to visit with us and we are doing something that we are commanded not to do, we’ll stop,and if we’re not doing something that we are commanded to do we’ll start doing it.
Joh 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
5) And although TD isn’t answering all of these issues, I do appreciate that he is maintaining civility.
Thank You, Now I will ask you a question.
Your blog is answering church of Christ, Why would you want to refute what Christ taught? Why not refute what Joseph smyth, John Wesley, Charles T. Russell, Billy Graham, Jerry Falwell,etc. etc. etc. taught?
Sorry that should be John Smyth
On July 30, 2008 at 2:46 pm Katherine Said:
You “sincerely doubt”? Even though, I have done the list of things above that you said you would agree they are your sister in Christ?
One question Katherine:
Do you all worship with mechanical instruments of music?
Y/N
1) The “remaining faithful” issue – could you paraphrase or sum up that passage of Scripture in your own words?
2) “I have never stated we cannot use biblical designations.”
So you don’t have to attend a church that has “church of Christ” on the sign outside?
3) “TD refuses to acknowledge that “church of Christ” is not found in the NT.
Just because you refuse to see something, doesn’t mean it is not there.”
TD, you are missing my point. Of course, the church of the New Testament is Christ’s church. But, it is not referred to anywhere as “church of Christ”. “churches of Christ” is not the same as “church of Christ”, any more than “cars of Bob” is the same as “car of Bob”.
4) “if you come to visit with us and we are doing something that we are commanded not to do, we’ll stop,and if we’re not doing something that we are commanded to do we’ll start doing it.”
I gave three examples of commands from Scripture. Do you folks do those three things on Sunday morning?
5) “Your blog is answering church of Christ, Why would you want to refute what Christ taught? Why not refute what Joseph smyth, John Wesley, Charles T. Russell, Billy Graham, Jerry Falwell,etc. etc. etc. taught?”
Don’t put words in this blog’s mouth. I am not refuting a thing that Christ taught. This blog is an answer to the things that hyperconservative church of Christ teachers (like JR, JO and NF) teach. It’s not against the churches of Christ, either, as you can see by the links on the blogroll. “answeringhyperconservativechurchesofchrist.wordpress.com” was just too long.
TD, you quote these verses but yet you do not show that you live by them and actually show quite the opposite. You take the word of God and twist it and turn it into something that it does not mean.
T.D. said:
“Thank You, Now I will ask you a question.
Your blog is answering church of Christ, Why would you want to refute what Christ taught? Why not refute what Joseph smyth, John Wesley, Charles T. Russell, Billy Graham, Jerry Falwell,etc. etc. etc. taught?”
Well I know this question was not directed right at me, but since I am contributing now and as a member of the church of Christ…I will answer part of your question, T.D.
I did not originally start this blog, so I do not know why Nathan chose the church of Christ, except because of what the three who have television shows were spouting. We are not refuting what Christ taught, but what the men are teaching-which, simply is not of Christ. I am sure if what they were teaching was Christ alone, there would have never been a question. However, there are too many within the churches of Christ that preach “another doctrine” that is of themselves, and feeds their agenda and egos. That is certainly what we have found here. I have come to not agree with a lot of the traditional beliefs found in churches of Christ because I do not think they are Biblical. However, they are my family and my heritage and I love them and do not want to depart at this time. What I will not condone is the sectarian mindset I find here that somehow we as fallible humans have ARRIVED at full knowledge and know without a doubt that we are in the one, true, perfect church-when actually, that is not even what Jesus asked for. That is a human ideal-not what we have been called to. Then these same people take their human interpretations, human opinions, and human beliefs-bind them on others and call it “gospel truth”, condemning anyone who will not join their fold and believe just like them or act just like them. Like I have said many many times-unity does NOT equal uniformity.
That is where the bulk of my problem lies-especially when people are not honest or just choose to ignore the truth-continuing on in their own agendas to somehow boost their pride and make them look better, when ALL of the glory should go to God alone.
On July 30, 2008 at 2:46 pm Katherine Said:
You “sincerely doubt”? Even though, I have done the list of things above that you said you would agree they are your sister in Christ?
T.D. answered:
One question Katherine:
Do you all worship with mechanical instruments of music?
Y/N
Sadly enough, I know you are asking me this to determine if I have “remained faithful” or if I am really your sister. That is pitiful, T.D.-you really have an incredibly skewed picture of what it means to be in the body of Christ. You will make tests of fellowships over things that people do a couple of hours a week, instead of who they are in Christ.
No, on a typical Sunday morning, the congregations that I worship in do not have instruments. Have I worshiped in churches that do? Yes. Do I love a cappella music and our heritage in that? Yes. Do I think instruments are wrong in worship? Absolutely not, and I make no bones about that.
Now, you can think what you want but it will certainly not change my identity in Christ 🙂
On July 31, 2008 at 11:26 am Katherine Said:
A whole LOT, but she didn’t give one verse of scripture.
Dont give me no lip, just give me the script.
Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Excuse me, what exactly are you trying to say, T.D.?
What did I not answer to YOUR satisfaction? Is it just too much for you that I am teaching you and thinking for myself?!
I am just speaking the truth-which is more than I can say for you.
On July 31, 2008 at 11:32 am Katherine Said:
Do I think instruments are wrong in worship? Absolutely not, and I make no bones about that.
Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
You’re in a “christian church”
TD,
Since you brought it up, can you give a passage of Scripture that tells Christians not to use instruments in worship? Or – to be more exact – a passage that tells Christians that they need to stop using instruments, which were authorized specifically in the OT, and discussed as being a part of heavenly worship in the book of Revelations?
Let me save you a moment of time – no. You can’t find a passage of Scripture that dis-authorizes the use of instruments in worship. Further, you can’t find a passage of Scripture that condemns their pre-authorized continued usage.
Remember a few posts ago where you said “if you come to visit with us and we are doing something that we are commanded not to do, we’ll stop”? Did you mean that? If so, then stop condemning others for using instruments in worship. Why? Check my earlier post that quotes Romans 14 for the answer to that question.
T.D., focus for once-read my answer again and quit chopping it up like you do the Bible…
“No, on a typical Sunday morning, the congregations (of churches of Christ-I just added this) that I worship in do not have instruments. Have I worshiped in churches that do? Yes. Do I love a cappella music and our heritage in that? Yes. Do I think instruments are wrong in worship? Absolutely not, and I make no bones about that.”
Now, you can think what you want but it will certainly not change my identity in Christ 🙂
Not that it really matters-I have nothing to prove to you. I follow Christ and Him alone-you are more loyal to an institution than you are Christ, though you are too blind to see that.
There is nothing wrong with a Christian church anyway. You know we all come from the same heritage, right? We split from them over this same stupid reason-instruments.
On July 31, 2008 at 11:54 am Katherine Said:
There is nothing wrong with a Christian church anyway. You know we all come from the same heritage, right? We split from them over this same stupid reason-instruments.
You’re doing good Katherine,
One of the elders in the “christian church” that I came out of said if they ever got rid of santa clause and said they were not going to celebrate the birthday of Christ, he would leave, also if he could not play his “bluegrass gospel music” he would leave.
AGAIN:Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
You wanna know something that I find is particularly hilarious?
One of the most successful music artists of the past few decades is not only a devout Christian, but is a member of a Church of Christ. And this person is an expert with several musical instruments.
The local cult will probably say that ANY instrument is a bad thing and that this person is “not being obedient”, LOL!!!
On July 31, 2008 at 11:50 am answeringchurchofchrist Said:
TD,
Since you brought it up, can you give a passage of Scripture that tells Christians not to use instruments in worship?
Re 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
1Co 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
Le 10:1 ¶ And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.
2 And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.
lots more where this came from.
HA, T.D. you have proved NOTHING by your last two comments!!! Nothing!!! Except your ignorance and insistence on toting the party line-AND that you have been trained with these answers.
First, and AGAIN-that passage in Revelation only refers to the book of Revelation.
2nd…”that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another”
You guys could definitely heed this advice, for you exalt much of your man-made beliefs over what is written only to puff yourself up.
Third, the story of Nadab and Abihu, which has been ripped out of its context within the Old Testament to prove something that was never condemned in the New Testament…and which no one who had not been trained or taught to use this as an example (like the gopher wood) would EVER use because it makes ZERO logical or Biblical sense-is a huge stretch to say absolutely, completely, no doubt that musical instruments in worship are a sin and people who use them-when God NEVER condemned them-are bound for hell.
Right. I had never even heard this argument until a few years ago, and I have to say it gets more absurd as time goes by.
You don’t want to use instruments? That is fine. I truly love our a cappella music. It violates your conscience to use them? We are not to make our brother stumble, and Romans 14 deals with a lot more of that. But…the problem lies when you choose to play God and decide that other people who are choosing to use the gifts God gave them to glorify Him are suddenly condemned to hell for doing so. If it is done in vain for their glory, He will know. The same can be said for those who sing to show off and not for His glory.
You cannot find a specific command in scripture that claims that instrumental music is wrong. You can choose not to worship with them, but you cannot condemn those that do.
On July 31, 2008 at 12:31 pm Katherine Said:
You cannot find a specific command in scripture that claims that instrumental music is wrong. You can choose not to worship with them, but you cannot condemn those that do.
Wheres the beef Katherine?
Would you also condone sacrificing bulls and goats to glorify God?
No, because Christ was our ultimate sacrifice. There is no longer a need to sacrifice bulls and goats-because Jesus paid the price 🙂
“And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away our sins.” ~Hebrews 10:10-11
You are just not going to find what you want to condemn people in this matter. It is merely a preference, an opinion, not a matter of salvation. You cannot condemn people where God did not.
We All fall short of the glory of God. TD chooses to point out what he thinks are others short comings and imperfections but not his own imperfections to boast about himself in his sinful arrogance. He is like a child being ignorant in saying another had their eyes open during prayer when they themselves obviously had their eyes open too but doesn’t want to admit it. And they say we are adding by using music in worship when the bible never tells us to stop using music to praise God, so seems that they are the ones who are adding something that was never commanded. The commandments that God gave us we should try to live by them, but as humans we are not perfect and will all fall short. I thank God that by His grace we are saved.
td
how is the perfect image of paul today?
if you continue to dodge the questions
that will only increase my efforts.
still speaking in tongues?
still keeping that body under subjection?
of course you know that if you fail in even one
area you fail in all.
dont feel so bad,god loves failures……….
but only if they admit it.
corey, dont take offence at my question. i only
hear cocers use that phrase. it implies that if
you dont see things the way you do that you couldnt
possibly be honest.
lee
On July 31, 2008 at 12:50 pm Katherine Said:
No, because Christ was our ultimate sacrifice. There is no longer a need to sacrifice bulls and goats-because Jesus paid the price
But you would say it is alright to do so in worship if you felt in your heart it was pleasing God right?
And also if one wanted to serve ice cream and cake on the Lords table that would be fine too right?
On July 31, 2008 at 12:31 pm Katherine Said:
First, and AGAIN-that passage in Revelation only refers to the book of Revelation.
AGAIN katherine:
Wheres the scripture for this?
I guess this is only referring to 2 Tim.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
No, T.D. you are still missing the point-and only because you WANT to.
You are walking all over and around this issue, and the simple fact of the matter is: God NEVER condemned or came even close to saying that worshiping with instrumental music is wrong. Neither did He command it. Therefore, it is a preference, an opinion-not a matter of salvation as people would like to make it.
It is a Romans 14 issue, not a “Thou shalt” or “Thou shalt not”. You cannot continue and TRY to play God because you will fail.
T.D., read the passage again…
“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:”
“the prophecy of this book”=means the book of Revelations.
When John wrote the book of Revelations, there were many other books and letters out there and were not organize as we have them now. The Bible was actually not even canonized until hundreds of years later. I am sure it seemed rational to make Revelation the last book as it talked about the end, etc. People make the mistake often of quoting this as it pertains to the entire Bible because it comes at the end of the Bible as we now know it. It is not a passage to be thrown out, but to be kept WITHIN its context.
Does that give us authority to add to the Bible whatever we please and call it “Gospel”? Absolutely not. Which means you cannot condemn people for making a choice where God did not.
That should read: “and they were not organized…”
On July 31, 2008 at 2:20 pm Katherine Said:
Does that give us authority to add to the Bible whatever we please and call it “Gospel”? Absolutely not. Which means you cannot condemn people for making a choice where God did not.
Worried about being condemned again are you?
So who added “the sinners prayer” Katherine?
Who added all these titles men/women wear such as “rev”, “first lady”, “pastor bishop so and so” “apostle so and so” and the list goes on.
Who added all the differing nonscriptural titles given as the church, such as baptist, methodist, etc?
Who took baptism out of the gospel?
Where does it say invite Christ into your heart to be your personal savior?
Where does he say we can worship Him however we feel?
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
On July 31, 2008 at 2:20 pm Katherine Said:
“the prophecy of this book”=means the book of Revelations.
how about Revelation, Katherine and you still forgot the verse.
so according to you, when the Lord was warning the seven Churches, they were to just go by what John had written and thats it.
td come out come out wherever you are.
“where does it say invite christ into your heart”
rev 3:20 “behold i stand at the door and knock”
now where could that door be…………….
that will be another thousand please.
you can owe me.
lee
On July 31, 2008 at 3:17 pm lee Said:
rev 3:20 “behold i stand at the door and knock”
Re 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
First you have to open the door, God is not going to do for you what you can do for yourself.
Joh 10:1 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
you just answered your own question.
how does he come in except you invite him?
pay the man on your way out please and
come again.
lee
TD, you need to take a look at yourself as you read these verses. You try to point some of these verses at others to show their wrongs when they seem to be pointing right at you.
T.D. said:
“Worried about being condemned again are you?
So who added “the sinners prayer” Katherine?
Who added all these titles men/women wear such as “rev”, “first lady”, “pastor bishop so and so” “apostle so and so” and the list goes on.
Who added all the differing nonscriptural titles given as the church, such as baptist, methodist, etc?
Who took baptism out of the gospel?
Where does it say invite Christ into your heart to be your personal savior?
Where does he say we can worship Him however we feel?
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
I was never worried about being condemned in the first place, so there can be no “again”. I am simply saying you are wasting your time trying to play God by thinking you can somehow deem who is going to heaven or hell, and you simply do not have that power. If you do think so, you have been greatly deceived and are in for a HUGE surprise…and since it is a waste of time, why don’t you take that energy and actually do what God has called you to do-you know, LOVE people??!!
I am not going to play your game-you are ignoring and skirting around all of the things you guys are doing that are adding to God’s plan-yet keep looking out at everyone else who you think is all wrong. You keep looking for the specks in everyone else’s eyes but have been blinded by the plank in your own. When I ask you a question about what you are doing, you try to pass the buck onto someone else, like you are somehow perfect. It just won’t work with God when you face Him. You might want to look on the inside first before you go attacking everyone else.
You guys do have too many similarities to the Pharisees. I wonder what you would have done with Jesus if you were there when He walked this earth. I don’t think you would have liked what He was doing any more than they did.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness. ~Matthew 23:13-15, 23-28
AMEN Katherine, Amen.
TD:
Kat’s right. The passages that you gave are not talking about instruments in worship, but you gave the right answers to get a passing mark from JR’s propaganda – I mean “preaching” – school. Congratulations!
But, let’s take a quick look at the Nadab and Abihu bit, and apply it to hyperconservative churches of Christ. Hypercons insinuate that Christians using instruments in worship are like N&A offering strange fire – and that God will judge them for it.
Now, let’s take that condemnation mirror and point it back at you and your colleagues for a moment… how about pitch pipes? How about song leaders? How about song books? How about powerpoint presentations? All used in worship without expressed authorization? Those sound like potential candidates for “strange fire” to me.
But, no, you’ll find a way to justify your own actions while maintaining your condemnation of others, violating the fool out of Romans 14 once again.
What about television broadcasts, for that matter?
If that can’t be called “strange fire”, then I don’t know what can.
TD – still waiting for you to tell us, in your own words, how one “remains faithful”. You’ve given us the Scripture passage, which we appreciate, but can you paraphrase that passage – or interpret it – to help us understand your point?
And I don’t want you to forget my questions…
1) So you don’t have to attend a church that has “church of Christ” on the sign outside?
2) TD, you are missing my point. Of course, the church of the New Testament is Christ’s church. But, it is not referred to anywhere as “church of Christ”. “churches of Christ” is not the same as “church of Christ”, any more than “cars of Bob” is the same as “car of Bob”.
3) “if you come to visit with us and we are doing something that we are commanded not to do, we’ll stop,and if we’re not doing something that we are commanded to do we’ll start doing it.”
I gave three examples of commands from Scripture. Do you folks do those three things on Sunday morning?
4) “Your blog is answering church of Christ, Why would you want to refute what Christ taught? Why not refute what Joseph smyth, John Wesley, Charles T. Russell, Billy Graham, Jerry Falwell,etc. etc. etc. taught?”
Don’t put words in this blog’s mouth. I am not refuting a thing that Christ taught. This blog is an answer to the things that hyperconservative church of Christ teachers (like JR, JO and NF) teach. It’s not against the churches of Christ, either, as you can see by the links on the blogroll. “answeringhyperconservativechurchesofchrist.wordpress.com” was just too long.
*sigh*
I tuned in to “A Word from James Oldfield” tonight, and with a caller, James continues using the erroneous argument that others are not in a church in the Bible, but that somehow he is.
James, you are not in a church that is in the Bible. Read the post.
Oldfield, Robertson and Fields cannot demonstrate, at all, that their church is in the Bible.
They might be able to show that a “church of Christ” is in the Bible, but they cannot prove that their “Church of Christ” is the one that Jesus Christ established.
They are just bullies who call themselves “Church of Christ” because that’s the only thing they could find that gives their cult any whiff of legitimacy.
But they can’t show a singular “church of Christ” in the Bible, because the Bible only refers to plural “churches of Christ”.
T.D. stated earlier: “I have never stated we cannot use biblical designations. Church of God Church of the living God Church of the firstborn,etc.”
Hmmm.. I wonder then does that mean that if we renamed our church the “Baptist Church of the Living God” would that make us a “New Testament Church” like the “Danville Church of Christ” that Norm leads?
Nathan, check out this site – pretty good one ! And check out the post “Nadab and Abihu”.
http://oneinjesus.info/2007/08/30/nadab-and-abihu/
Here is a direct link – its a great site
http://oneinjesus.info/
Good stuff. Thanks for sharing, wdtbs. I’ll have to add that link to the blogroll.
Answering , can you have a plural of something with out having a singular? I think God expects a liitle common sense
Ac 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Here it is in the singular. Who had blood? Father , Son , Holy Ghost.
Hello little children (especially Chris night , the man who made the biggest fool out of himself ever)
are you all still mired in the quagmire of trying to answer me?
Flattery of flattery that you all spend sooo much time on little ole me and the “wimpy” doctrine I defend.
It really makes my heart enlarge when I now see someone even trying to use my WDTBS logo and even my salutation Neh 13:31cccccccccccccccccccccccccccc
I feel so….so??? validated by you all and your attempts to answer me!
Let me just pull on little segment off my pseudo site that is now parading as THE REAL THING (not the first time) from meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
see 2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
I took this right from the site
Our unity, therefore, is not based upon what we do, but rather upon who we are. And the force that brings this oneness to His universal Body is none other than the Holy Spirit. I believe we too often discount the operation of the Spirit among the called out people of God.
Unity is based upon who we are and not what we do????
Love it! DOn’t you just love it?
Kinda like being in the Knght family? You are a Knight no matter what! Though you be dishonest? still a Knight! Though you drag the name through the mud? Still a Knight! Though you make false arguments? Still Knight! Though the whole world is made to question the source of the gene pool as result of the ignorant antics? Yes still a Knight!
That may be the way it is with Knights but folks not Christians.
2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
deceitful workers transforming themselves… but really they are Satan”s
Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate
but in works they deny him..
see folks it does matter what we do.
can you imagine Jesus saying “oh it does not matter what you do… the unity that is resulting from me is based upon who you are?
Please That is Satan’s words. The very notion that it does not matter what you do.
Oh, but I forgot you all are trying to change the Lord’s church into what you feel comfortable in .
Let us call it the Do What You Want to Church of Unified by Who We are ! Lets see DWYTCUBWWA so from now on we will recognize the pseudo WDTBS as DWYTCUBWWA or dwight cubwwa
great stuff guys. you all are really the bottom of the barrel
yep, we have scraped the bottome of the barrel and found you Mr. Johnny Robertson ! What are you air times on TV, so I can view you guys first hand ? It’s a bit hard making out what you are trying to type. Please keep things together so it makes a little sense.
“(especially Chris night , the man who made the biggest fool out of himself ever)”
and continues to do so .
Mr. Camera man AKA “faithful” – what times do the three men come on air ? Are the broadcast available on the net ??
“Speak the Devil’s name, and he shall appear…”
Remember folks, Johnny Robertson has declared himself to be “the intellectual center” in this region.
If he comes across as having atrocious spelling, bad grammar, and twisted mind, it’s only because he is operating at a higher intellectual capacity than the rest of us mere mortals. /sarcasm
He also has not updated his own website in well over a year. And he STILL can’t spell “polygamist” correctly.
He also apparently vandalizes his own buildings in an attempt to elicit sympathy from the community.
He also bribes people to attend his “preaching school”.
And the good times haven’t even BEGUN yet. There’s more coming his way soon, that he doesn’t know about.
On July 31, 2008 at 10:48 pm rick Said:
Hmmm.. I wonder then does that mean that if we renamed our church the “Baptist Church of the Living God” would that make us a “New Testament Church” like the “Danville Church of Christ” that Norm leads?
Hmmm. I wonder if vandola baptist church started teaching the doctrine of Christ, and everyone obeyed that form of doctrine, and threw away the hiscox manual,
and baptist faith and message, would they be called baptist or Christians? acts 11:26
Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Hey Johnny Robertson, now that we have your attention…
…care to tell us why Jason Hairston is no longer with the Church of Christ?
Why don’t you ever talk about him on your show?
Mr. Jason Hairston was shoved under a rug somewhere by these men apparently. Most of the time when someone doesn’t talk about something, they have something to hide, so maybe Mr. Robertson rather avoid it in hopes that nobody will know the truth. Mr. Robertson, when did Mr. Hairston leave and why?
Regular Commenters:
Don’t let JR and faithful get you upset. They are just trying to rile everyone up. If they don’t say anything worthwhile, then just ignore them. If they bring up a valid point, argue the point.
But refrain from baiting attempts to make things personal.
JR wrote:
“I feel so….so??? validated by you all and your attempts to answer me!”
JR – you, JO and NF are the three faces of hyperconservative church of Christ doctrine in our area. So it shouldn’t be a surprise that your name comes up here fairly regularly among people from VA/NC. But even so, the blog doesn’t exist to answer you personally.
It does, however, exist to answer the things you, JO and NF (and others who share your belief system) teach. You guys have four hours on TV. Our little blog should hardly be a bother to you.
We are, after all, the “bottom of the barrel”.
Indeed.
That Jason Hairston left Robertson’s “Church of Christ”, proves that the “Church of Christ” as represented by Robertson, Oldfield and Fields is a false church, according to their very own premise.
T.D. retorted, “Hmmm. I wonder if vandola baptist church started teaching the doctrine of Christ, and everyone obeyed that form of doctrine, and threw away the hiscox manual,
and baptist faith and message, would they be called baptist or Christians? acts 11:26”
Vandola Baptist has been teaching the doctrine of Christ since the 1800’s and faithful members committed to Christ have been obeying Christ’s greatest commandments all their lives. As for Edward Hiscox’s Baptist Manual..have never read it. Concerning the Baptist Faith and Message..every statement in it is a product of Holy Scripture and is backed up by BCV. And for your information, everything I step into the pulpit it is with the Holy Bible and not a baptist manual. And yes, we at Vandola are Christians first and foremost because we have been saved by the blood of the Lamb Jesus, baptized by the Holy Spirit and immersed in the murky waters of the baptismal pool. Do I hear a witness in the house!!!
Amen! Preach it, brother!
“On August 1, 2008 at 10:43 am Chris Knight Said:
Indeed.
That Jason Hairston left Robertson’s “Church of Christ”, proves that the “Church of Christ” as represented by Robertson, Oldfield and Fields is a false church, according to their very own premise.”
Chris you are confused as usual. The church nor the bible teaches once saved always saved. That’s the false doctrine Rick teaches
On August 1, 2008 at 11:06 am rick Said:
baptized by the Holy Spirit and immersed in the murky waters of the baptismal pool.
Are you bapticostal now?
On August 1, 2008 at 11:06 am rick Said:
everything I step into the pulpit it is with the Holy Bible and not a baptist manual.
Rick:
were you “saved” before you were baptized or after?
How many baptisms are there today?
Do you teach “once saved always saved”
Can an alien sinner pray to God and be heard?
Do you not know that John Smyth founded the church you are in 1600 years after Christ died.
He didn’t pay any attention to this and nor do you all.
Ga 1:6 ¶ I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
hi john,
all the members of the coc and reg contributors.
as you all may know in acts 10:44 the gentiles recieved
the holy ghost before baptism.
johnny explains this away by comparing the event to
other instances in the scripture when the spirit of god
caused something to happen ie: the donkey that spoke.
personally i cant believe anyone would be brave enough
to equate one with the other.
according to them these gentiles had not OBEYED the
gospel yet. so you cant be saved if you havent OBEYED
the gospel right?
a funny thing happened to these gentiles they received something from god that peter said would only be given to those who OBEYED god.
if you will read acts 5:32.
peter, under the power and filling of the holy ghost
told a hostile group of sadducees how that he and the
holy ghost were witnesses of jesus.
then peter makes a statement that cannot be refuted
the holy ghost is only given by god to those who OBEY
him.
praise god in the highest…….glory,glory,glory.
jesus is lord.
man oh man cant you just feel it. thank you lord.
“for by your words you shall be justified and by your words you shall be condemned”
can i get a witness?
lee
I like these quotes from Dave Hunt of Bend, OR:
“While those who believe in “falling from grace” are clear that good works cannot earn salvation, they teach that salvation is kept by good works. Thus one gets saved by grace, but thereafter salvation can be lost by works. To teach that good works keep salvation is almost the same error as to say that good works earn salvation. It denies grace to say that once I have been saved by grace I must thereafter keep myself saved by works.”
“John 5:24 again says, “hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation….” One could not ask for clearer or greater assurance than the words of Jesus: “I give unto them [my sheep] eternal life; and they shall never perish” (Jn 10:28). If, having received eternal life, we could lose it and perish, it would make Christ a liar.”
“If sin causes the loss of salvation, what kind or amount of sin does it take? There is no verse in the Bible that tells us. We are told that if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness-so apparently any sin can be forgiven. Even those who teach falling away rarely if ever say they got “saved again.” Rather, they confessed their sin and were forgiven. Hebrews 12:3-11 tells us that every Christian sins, and that instead of causing a loss of salvation, sin brings God’s chastening upon us as His children. If when we sinned we ceased to be God’s children, He would have no one to chastise-yet he “scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.” Indeed, chastening is a sign that we are God’s children not that we have lost our salvation: “if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.””
T.D. asked of me: “Do you not know that John Smyth founded the church you are in 1600 years after Christ died.”
Huhh..not to embarrass you are anything but helllooo, Jesus founded THE CHURCH that I am a part of well over 2000 years ago! duhhh
Witness granted, Lee!! Preach on..
On August 1, 2008 at 12:11 pm rick Said:
“If sin causes the loss of salvation, what kind or amount of sin does it take? There is no verse in the Bible that tells us. We are told that if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
Rick:
stil didn’t answer my questions.
Hey Rick what if you don’t confess your sins? is that not doing something?
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Re 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
On August 1, 2008 at 12:17 pm rick Said:
Huhh..not to embarrass you are anything but helllooo, Jesus founded THE CHURCH that I am a part of well over 2000 years ago! duhhh
Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Not by the word of Rick.
T.D. asked of me:
were you “saved” before you were baptized or after?
BEFORE
How many baptisms are there today?
PROBABLY NOT MANY SINCE ITS FRIDAY.. WAIT TILL SUNDAY
Do you teach “once saved always saved”
YES
Can an alien sinner pray to God and be heard?
NEVER MET AN ALIEN
Do you not know that John Smyth founded the church you are in 1600 years after Christ died.
ANSWERED THAT ONE ALREADY ABOVE
On August 1, 2008 at 12:35 pm rick Said:
T.D. asked of me:
were you “saved” before you were baptized or after?
BEFORE
How many baptisms are there today?
PROBABLY NOT MANY SINCE ITS FRIDAY.. WAIT TILL SUNDAY
Do you teach “once saved always saved”
YES
Can an alien sinner pray to God and be heard?
NEVER MET AN ALIEN
Do you not know that John Smyth founded the church you are in 1600 years after Christ died.
ANSWERED THAT ONE ALREADY ABOVE
Rick:
Do you actually allow people to refer to you as a preacher? Thanks for the verses that back up your answers.
maybe this will help.
Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Joh 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
AGAIN Rick:
Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
On August 1, 2008 at 12:17 pm rick Said:
Huhh..not to embarrass you are anything but helllooo, Jesus founded THE CHURCH that I am a part of well over 2000 years ago! duhhh
Rick:
Would you also say that Jesus founded:
the catholic church?
the methodist church?
the apostolic church?
the presbyterian church?
the moravian church? etc. etc.
Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
AMEN!! 🙂
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of PEACE, and bring GLAD tidings of GOOD things!
AMEN!! 🙂
T.D., you guys might want to meditate on this one for awhile.
Would you say that Jesus founded the Danville Church of Christ?
Surely the princes of Zoan are fools, the counsel of the wise counsellors of Pharaoh is become brutish: how say ye unto Pharaoh, I am the son of the wise, the son of ancient kings? Isaiah 19:11
The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed, ‘O God, I thank you that I’m not like other people-thieves, dishonest people, adulterers, or even this tax collector. Luke 18:11
Even demons came out of many people, screaming, “You are the Son of God!” But Jesus rebuked them and ordered them not to speak, because they knew he was the Messiah. Luke 4:41
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
John 10:1
See T.D…. I can scatter out a variety of Scripture verses just like you.
td,
glad you brought up the scripture from your
example paul……. you know how you keep your body
in subjection. didnt over eat today did you?
still speaking in tongues?
greet anyone today with a holy kiss?
still not married im sure.
must be tough.
did you notice how i knocked out that little lincoln
log that props up your position that you havent OBEYED
until your water baptised.
peter said god gives the holy ghost to those who OBEY
him.
shoppers we have a spill on isle one………call faithless to clean that up.
lee
TD wrote “Would you also say that Jesus founded:
the catholic church?
the methodist church?
the apostolic church?
the presbyterian church?
the moravian church? etc. etc.”
Yes.
Or at least you better hope so since these denominations predate yours for at least 200 years.
In all of the arguments about names, scripture interpretations etc., there is one thing that always jumps off the page.
There is NO proof of any American Restoration Movement Churches of Christ in existence in Europe or Asia in the 1800 years following Christ’s death. None. Zero.
There are signs of churches that had some of the same characteristics, but they would not be viewed as “sound” congregations by today’s conservative Cocs.
The Modern CoC is a denomination that was formed by borrowed traditions of other denominations before them, as well as the inclusion of regional customs. You can either choose to accept this fact and move on, or you can go on continuing to live a lie and twisting scriptures to prove you are part of a “one true church” like many other “one true church” groups have done unsuccessfully before you.
Amen, DMH-Amen. Especially that last line! It is an unsuccessful endeavor and will NEVER be proven-no matter how hard they try or how much they want it to be true. It is better to be honest with and face our heritage and history-learning from the good and the bad, and moving forward from there. All the “one true church” talk does is puff up egos and build up walls of division. It does absolutely nothing to strive for unity-which is really one of the foundations of our movement-unity, not uniformity; being “Christians only, not the only Christians”.
On August 1, 2008 at 3:15 pm rick Said:
See T.D…. I can scatter out a variety of Scripture verses just like you.
– way to go Ric ! TD does just that…lifts any verse he wants from anywhere he wants and TRIES to apply it anyway he wants…CONTEXT TD…CONTEXT !
td
come out and play
ask johnny if its ok.
ill be here
lee
To Johnny Robertson, James Oldfield, Norm Fields, Mitch/”faithful”, T.D., and the rest…
I direct your attention to this latest post on my blog:
The Forty Martyrs of Sebaste: Something Johnny Robertson and his cult cannot respond to
I doubt any of you have ever heard of the Forty Martyrs of Sebaste…
…but you are more than welcome to tell us what you think of the centurion Sempronius.
Kindest regards,
Chris Knight
On August 1, 2008 at 3:13 pm rick Said:
Would you say that Jesus founded the Danville Church of Christ?
Rick:
Is that the best you can do. Would you say that Jesus founded the corinth Church of Christ?
1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
If I didn’t know better I might say this was talking about all the denominations of today.
Isa 19:1 ¶ The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.
2 And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbour; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom.
3 And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards.
4 And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts.
5 And the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up.
6 And they shall turn the rivers far away; and the brooks of defence shall be emptied and dried up: the reeds and flags shall wither.
7 The paper reeds by the brooks, by the mouth of the brooks, and every thing sown by the brooks, shall wither, be driven away, and be no more.
Isa 19:8 The fishers also shall mourn, and all they that cast angle into the brooks shall lament, and they that spread nets upon the waters shall languish.
9 Moreover they that work in fine flax, and they that weave networks, shall be confounded.
10 And they shall be broken in the purposes thereof, all that make sluices and ponds for fish.
11 Surely the princes of Zoan are fools, the counsel of the wise counsellors of Pharaoh is become brutish: how say ye unto Pharaoh, I am the son of the wise, the son of ancient kings?
12 Where are they? where are thy wise men? and let them tell thee now, and let them know what the LORD of hosts hath purposed upon Egypt.
13 The princes of Zoan are become fools, the princes of Noph are deceived; they have also seduced Egypt, even they that are the stay of the tribes thereof.
14 The LORD hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken man staggereth in his vomit.
Isa 19:15 Neither shall there be any work for Egypt, which the head or tail, branch or rush, may do.
16 In that day shall Egypt be like unto women: and it shall be afraid and fear because of the shaking of the hand of the LORD of hosts, which he shaketh over it.
17 And the land of Judah shall be a terror unto Egypt, every one that maketh mention thereof shall be afraid in himself, because of the counsel of the LORD of hosts, which he hath determined against it.
Rick:
Are you saying you are like the publican and admitting that the doctrine you teach is not biblical?
Lu 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Unlike those today claiming to have been baptized with the Holy Spirit.
Lu 4:39 And he stood over her, and rebuked the fever; and it left her: and immediately she arose and ministered unto them.
40 Now when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them.
41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
Very true Rick:
Joh 10:1 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
Jesus said, “I am the door of the sheep” not John the baptizer, nor John Smyth.
Rick: I know you can see this, You just have to quit worrying about what the Mosses might say.
td
better find something else to prop up
the house thats falling.
Robertson needs to rein-in T.D.
He’s making their entire “Church of Christ” look ridiculous!
Then again, there’s nothing really wrong with that…
Still no response to the post on my blog. Other than one person who said they’re glad that I shared the story because they had never heard of the Forty Martyrs of Sebaste before, and another who cryptically stated that “Oldfield will be arrested if he returns.”
td
ask johnny how he is doing.
i havent spoken to him since his apology a
few weeks back. i sure let let the wind out
of him as he went off the air that night.
from his people calling in to say what a good man
he is to my proving otherwise.
tell me the story again uncle john of all your sacrifices you made to serve the lord……………….i love that story.
lee
chapter and verse, chapter and verse.
ive shown you where you missed it but
you cant respond. gentiles received the holy
ghost without being baptised and peter proved
that god only did that for OBEDIENT people.
give me your best shot.
lee
Someone wake me up when T.D. starts making sense
“How many baptisms are there today?
PROBABLY NOT MANY SINCE ITS FRIDAY.. WAIT TILL SUNDAY”
2 more wednesday night.
T.D. said, “Rick: I know you can see this, You just have to quit worrying about what the Mosses might say.”
So T.D. I see that Mark McMinnis is fillin you guys in on some of the names of folks in our church or are you Mark yourself?
That’s great faithful, we had 2 baptisms as well lately.
If you haven’t clicked over and read Chris’s article, you should. It’s an amazing story about forty Roman soldiers who died for Christ hundreds and hundreds of years ago.
Chris, it’s interesting that the cofC guys don’t respond to your blog postings. I wonder why they don’t? You’ve certainly addressed them specifically a number of times.
I don’t know if we can believe faithful/Mitch when he says that they have had two baptisms.
I mean, the leaders of the “Church of Christ” cult lie all the time. Johnny Robertson has no conscience about lying at all (I’ve caught him in several regarding myself). Most people don’t even believe that it was the Nation of Islam that painted that bomb threat: widespread consensus is that agents of the “Church of Christ” did it to their own building.
So why should we believe that they had two baptisms on Wednesday night?
Bone head chris said”On July 30, 2008 at 12:37 pm Chris Knight Said:
Mitch, why didn’t your “church” file a police report?
Why did none of the media cover what would otherwise be seen as a terrorist threat against your church building? Could it be that they had no reason to take you seriously?
How did the bomb threat vanish so quickly?
Why were YOU so quick to blame the Nation of Islam?
Too much of this incident does not make any sense at all.
Most people do believe that your “Church of Christ” did this to their own building, as an attack on the Nation of Islam.
So Mitch, how much did Robertson pay you to attend his “preaching school”, LOL!!!
”
I don’t have ac hurch , but the did call the police.Most of the reporters are off on Saturday. They washed the building , why would they leave that on the building?
I didn’t blame the nation of islam. I said it was very coinsedental.Only a boke head like yourself would think we painted on our own building. The school helps with part of my expenses. I promise you I would make far far more running my business.
I hope that answers all those questions Chris, who helped you come up with them? When you spoke with Johnny on camera you could only come up with maybe 2-3 that you stated over and over.
I really don’t care if you believe me or not Chris. You have repeatedly shown your self dishonest
We consider Chris Knight to be just as credible as Galimore
I know, Nathan. And this is a story from antiquity, one of the greatest and most celebrated of the early church.
The Forty Martyrs of Sebaste is not unique though, in the sense that many believers across history have been executed for declaring themselves Christians, before having a chance to be baptized. Or even having any local church at all to fellowship with.
I first heard the story of Sempronius and the Forty Martyrs from the Thundering Legion about twelve years ago, not long after I was saved. One of my friends who led me to Christ shared the story with me, and I’ve always held it dear to my heart.
If Johnny Robertson will not answer my original question about how is what he is doing demonstrating the love of Christ to a lost and dying world, then maybe he can answer my question about what happened to Sempronius, since he died without being baptized.
Chris and faithful,
Please remember the first rule of this blog – civility.
If you guys want to discuss things like this, you can do it on Chris’s blog, or you can do it via email, or you can get together at Starbucks and videotape the encounter and post it on youtube.
But not here, and not like this.
Thank you,
Mr. Answer
“Most of the reporters are off on Saturday.”
?!?!???
Mitch, Mitch Mitch Mitch Mitch Mitch, dahhh-ling…
I’ve been a reporter. And if there is one thing in this world that there is no such thing as, it is a reporter who is off duty for the weekend or the night.
A reporter is always on call. Just like a doctor, or a soldier, or a minister. We don’t know what time off is really like. We never know when the opportunity arises that we have to chronicle something… because we might be the only ones in a position to chronicle it.
You’re trying to tell us that in this day and age, a bomb threat that your group is alluding was the responsibility of a group of Muslims, is not newsworthy enough to bring even just one reporter to your church? You mean to tell us, that not one journalist even called in the days following to ask questions? As competitive as the news industry is, that not a single reporter wanted to do anything with such a hot story?!
Oooh-kaaaaaay, whatever…
Didn’t see your previous post, ’til after mine was made Nathan.
No worries. Thanks for helping and understanding.
faithful?
After catching up on everything said on here today there is no doubt that Johnny, TD, faithful and the others like them are the modern day Pharisees. They have totally thrown out the door and disregarded the very essence of Gods word. They just show that they certainly don’t know the truth of who Jesus is and that God sent Jesus to save us not to condemn us. Which simply shows they don’t know Jesus.
Truth,
I’ve said for years that if Jesus were to appear among us today, He would be condemned as a troublemaker, as someone not patriotic enough, as someone who was sent by the Devil, you name it He would be accused of it.
You were right to refer to those people as “modern day Pharisees”, because they would be the ones crying out the most to have Him put to death.
Perhaps some among us should read a bit of Dostoevsky, particularly the story of The Grand Inquisitor from The Brothers Karamazov.
td, faithless
good morning. whats the matter?
am i hitting too close to home? did
john say that if you dont reply ill stop asking
questions, so who would be the dishonest one here?
peter or johnny?
love those pentacostals!
lee
““Most of the reporters are off on Saturday.”
?!?!???
Mitch, Mitch Mitch Mitch Mitch Mitch, dahhh-ling…
I’ve been a reporter. And if there is one thing in this world that there is no such thing as, it is a reporter who is off duty for the weekend or the night.”
Tell that to the news station. Why were you let go ?
Why don’t you guys ask yourselves? You practically own it. Or the church in Texas that funds Johnny does anyway.
By the way, I’ve never been a television news reporter. Research ain’t your forte, is it?
By the way folks, here’s the latest of Mitch/faithful’s handiwork…
Mitch, your cult would doubless make a video slandering the Amish if you could ever get them on video… wouldn’t you?
I did get to speak with some Amish recently. Their attitude of love and grace, and non-confrontation, is so completely counter to what we see from the Robertson/Oldfield/Field hyper-legalists that it’s like looking at night and day.
It confirmed all the more in my mind that the three hyper-legalist “preachers” from the “Church of Christ”, and their followers like T.D. and Mitch/faithful, do not have Christ or His love in their lives, and are only using the name of Christ to try to wield power and control over others.
If Jesus was walking on the earth today and spoke to people about the hope He brings and give His love and mercy to people, even those we think of as the worst of sinners, as the bible shows He did then, Johnny, TD, faithful, and the rest of them would not believe Him, and do not believe Him. They would make sarcastic remarks to Him and read parts of Scripture from the bible that they twist and take out of context to Him and would say that He is has blasphemed God and do this all in their own arrogance.
“Woe to you Pharisees…”
Something I noticed in Mitch/faithful’s last video. At the conclusion of it, it says that to have salvation, after everything else like “hearing” (doesn’t explain how a deaf person is supposed to do that) and baptism,
“then….
Remain faithfull
(Rev 2:10)”
His bad spelling, folks, not mine.
Mitch, who exactly decides if someone is “faithful” enough to deserve Heaven? You? Robertson and Oldfield and Fields?
And how much “faithfull” is enough, anyway? If a person commits a single sin, doesn’t that completely wreck all the faithfulness that the person has accumulated? Because if God is absolutely and infinitely holy, then the slightest mistake on our part will utterly destroy our faithfulness to Him, if being “faithfull” is something that one must work toward earning.
Mitch, per what you are preaching, nobody will ever get into Heaven. Not you either. I hope you enjoy warm weather, because it’s gonna be plenty hot where you are going when you die. That is, if you believe that salvation is something of our own works to merit Heaven.
Nobody remains faithful. We have all fallen short of the glory of God. And there is no hope found on Earth for any of us, apart from His grace.
Mitch, you would bind others up in slavery and servitude all over again. Making them a “son of Hell” once more, with no way out except on the terms of your own “church”, which has twisted Christ’s words of freedom into a chain of bondage.
“Remain faithfull”? Why don’t you examine your own life Mitch, and come back and tell us, without a shred of doubt, that you yourself have been able to do that!
It’s sad that Mitch or whoever faithful is thinks he can honestly be fathful enuf to live up to Gods standards. This doesnt mean that we are saying one shouldnt strive to be faithful – but we are saying that not one person ever in the world ( but Jesus ) has been 100% faithful. Mitch/Faithful, do you not know that you cant live a life of works to merit your standing before God? You could never be good enough to earn Gods favor, so stop thinking you are able to do this Mitch/Faithful. You work because of what Christ done,not to earn your way to heaven. You are under legalism Mitch – Christ came to set you free from such…so break out of Johnnys jail and learn to love the law of Christ because Christ loved you, not because you think you can eran your standing before God, because that requires perfection, which you and I do not have…again we arent saying one should live in sin and live as he wants and claim he is saved…we are saying you obey the law best you can and sometimes we slip and slide and thank goodness for the work of Christ when we do slip…its sad you cant see this
Little Children
no matter what you say you have to all agree the only way you all can get recognized is off my back.
Ha ha ha
this little website thrives on our input…. wouldnt even be here if not for my work
and Kris , little Kris… used interest from my show to get his little video before you all
must be hard to deal with huh boys
and just so you know Jason ask my kindly to leave him off the site. He said he didnt appreciate Randy bringing him up.
We are that way you know? We really don’t care to hurt anyone whom we have helped so much. No real desire to satisfy you all with news of Jason.
I will continue to pray for him.
Bye now Chris
ps Kris I still have such fun thoughts of you at WGSR. That was really a glorious Knight when you came down there with you silly little camera (not enough film) to see me. I guess I have the exclusive footage? Some of which you have never been able to review. Do you remember what you said about your family?
Richard who? the gigolo? now that really radiates Christ
Ok that was my bi-monthly visit
keep it up fellows
the people who help support our men for full time training were all encouraged to do so by this site! They said, Wow! you folks have really gotten that area stirred up. Act 17:6
Some won’t to see more of Clis Knight… his was the best video I have sent out in long time.
night night kris
JR,
I was going to give a bigger response to your enlightened comment, but rather, I’ll simply ask you – why are you in a church that is not in the Bible?
Uh-oh, Johnny’s off his meds again.
Johnny, why don’t you read what I’ve written on my blog and tell us…
Did Sempronius go to Heaven or did he go to Hell?
If you can’t answer anything else that we’ve asked you, then this one should be easy enough.
Thanks Johnny for you just continue to prove you guys are so very much like the Pharisees and so far off from being like Christ.
Oh my-it is like a circus with these guys. Kris? Clis? gigolo? “thrives on your input” Right-this site would do just fine without your mindless rants. Is that what the people who give you money want? To stir the pot? Apparantely so, since you have never once answered how anything you do brings glory to Christ.
Yep all they have shown is that they have boosted your egos once again, puffed themselves up with pride, and shown how they desire all control and power while not caring if it glorifies Christ.
Modern day Pharisees indeed.
hi john,
whos speaking for god,
you or the apostle peter?
one of you is wrong.
lee
On August 1, 2008 at 12:35 pm rick Said:
T.D. asked of me:
were you “saved” before you were baptized or after?
BEFORE
On August 1, 2008 at 9:41 pm rick Said:
That’s great faithful, we had 2 baptisms as well lately.
That is so rediculous, Why would anyone want to be baptized if it were not even necessary?
It’s not “rediculous”, and Rick never said it was unnecessary. Baptism is a part of our spiritual journey to being faithful to Jesus and who He is. It unites us with Him in His death, burial, AND resurrection. It is a beautiful aspect that God has given us the opportunity to be so united with Jesus; and it is most certainly not something to be ignored, but to be carried out in faith and obedience. I don’t believe anyone has really said otherwise-I certainly have not.
It is just not THE central message of the Gospel-and to place more emphasis on it as something we can do “in just the right way” rather than what God does through it is not right. To reject or ignore it is a completely different issue, and that is not right either.
It plays an important part and vital role in our spiritual journey, but it is not THE point that everything hinges on.
From Johnny: “and just so you know Jason ask my kindly to leave him off the site. He said he didnt appreciate Randy bringing him up.”
Frome Randy: Johnny, please do tell the entire story. The reason Jason called you Johnny was due to an email to me from you, where you stated some things about Jason and Stacy that were untrue. Jason also called me that night too Johnny, so get your facts straight!! Maybe you should tell everyone on here just what Jason told you on the phone. Jason did ask that I not bring him into this, but he also told me he told you he and I were friends and he also told you to get your facts straight and was mad because you LIED about some things on him and Stacy. Get this straight Johnny ! You guys, and that includes Jason had no problem calling people out, so I guess you, Jason, or whoever should not be so bothered by it…there is much I could say about Jason and what happened there at Martinsville church of Christ or as Jason called it ( Johnnys Church ) his words to you was that you are the God of Martinsville Church of Christ…so tell the folk that and the rest of the story too !!!!…everyone know this – Jason Hairston does not talk to Johnny still, but this one time only since leaving Johnny, because Johnny LIED. Jason says he REGRETS the day he ever met Johnny, and he isnt alone…
Randy Craiger
Will Robertson respond to that one?
He hasn’t responded to anything else yet.
So Randy is that way way of leaving Jason out? Bring up his name ? Wow. What a friend
On August 2, 2008 at 5:34 pm faithful Said:
So Randy is that way way of leaving Jason out? Bring up his name ? Wow. What a friend
first of all, I dont know what “way way” means, but if you read what I said, you would know what I meant. Let me go a bit slower – You guys have no problem naming people, so get use to it…understand that time faithful !! I am Jasons friend and like I said, I will keep much of what have talked about “quite”. The ones not friends with him are the ones who put him under legalist bondage – and that my friend was Johnny ! Jason acted the same way you guys are doing now and even treated people on air with the same legalist agenda, but guess what faithful – HE REGRETS ever treating people like he done…maybe one day you will wkae up too !
…and why you are hiding things Johnny – do tell how you talk about Charles Roark when he isnt around…tell that to everyone on here. Tell how you boss James O. around like he is your little boy or something, like the time I met James at K-Mart and you called James while I was in the car…James told me “Johnny told me to go back and call Gearhart a coward”…I honestly felt bad for James…he looked like a school boy be lead by the teacher.
btw Johnny, while eating out today, one of your members called my cell and told me you had something on the blog about me…now you guess who it was that called me 🙂
faithful, why are you so afraid to use your real name – and Johnny calls Gearhart a coward. You guys are one big joke. You preach law and not Christ, go back and see how often you have talked about Christ, Love, Ho blood, His work on the cross. Matter fact have you ever talked about these things or do you just get off on fighting with others? You cant play your little games with me faithful, because I acted just like you while listening to Johnnys garbage, so I know what drives you faithful, and its down right sad. I hope and pray that you one day find Jesus and understand His work and what His blood and life has and can do for you….try talking about that faithful…I bet you cant, because your puppet master wont let you
Chris, maybe you should make a movie about these men – second thought maybe not…they do comedy quite well on their own….I am out of here for now…the person that called me, please keep in touch 🙂
PS. people from Norms still email me too…wonder why 🙂
Randy Craiger
rcraiger@yahoo.com
Randy, when I think of how Mitch/faithful, T.D. and the rest under Robertson’s sway must think of Jesus, I can’t help but envision something Ralph Fiennes’s portrayal of Amon Goeth in Schindler’s List. To the people of Robertson’s “Church of Christ” cult, Jesus is a cruel, sadistic tyrant sitting up in a house on the hill overlooking the concentration camp, which is where they are. And they must obey Him utterly, or else He’ll pick up His rifle and shoot them dead, just for the fun of it. Unless they are “faithfull” to Him without error.
Jesus to them is something completely absent of love and mercy.
By the way, I’ve met people who knew the real Amon Goeth. I’ve listened to what they had to say about him. So I know something of what I speak of.
“Chris, maybe you should make a movie about these men…”
Who’s to say that I haven’t already started? 😉
easy big fella,
been missing your posts.
good to hear from you.
lee