A Written Debate

Randy had the good idea.  Since Johnny Robertson has started commenting semi-regularly on this blog, Randy suggested that Johnny and I should engage in a written debate on some sort of mutually agreed upon subject here on the blog.  I think this is a good idea, and I would agree to take part in such an event here at answeringchurchofchrist.wordpress.com.  

Some of the debate ideas that Randy suggested included:

1) Original Sin
2) Election
3) Predestination (although that is closely tied with Election)
4) Eternal Security
5) Miracles

Some other more church of Christ-specific ideas I would recommend include:

1) CENI
2) Lord’s Supper
3) The “church of Christ” as the only modern representation of the early church

And finally, a couple of all-purpose debate subjects, that both of our faith backgrounds share, but about which we would perhaps disagree:

1) Grace 
2) The Gospel

The ground rules would be agreed upon after both sides have committed to participate.

So, what do you say, Johnny?  Would you like to take part in a good old fashioned written debate?  

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30 thoughts on “A Written Debate

  1. I would like to suggest that the evidence of a Christ-filled life be added to the topics of discussion. Particularly the fruit of the spirit as described in Galatians.

  2. Nathan, I think you should just go ahead and pick a topic and allow Corey to debate it with you – Johnny could have accepted already…..maybe you and Corey could agree upon an issue to debate

  3. You’re probably right, pernell. I just wanted to give him time. I am struggling real hard right now to not make the sort of comments JR and his group would make in my place.

    So then, Corey it is. JR – your ship has sailed. If you want to do it again later, let me know.

    Why don’t we do it this way, Corey… in a day or so I’ll put a poll on the page. All the regular commenters can chime in. Corey, do you have any other subjects you would add to the list? Also, we can start to put down some ground rules – and talk about format. I’m open to ideas and thoughts.

  4. I agree the discussion should be between Nathan and Corey only. (I think he would do a much better job than JR anyway)

    Maybe there could be a separate thread for eveyone that wants to comment on the ongoing conversation?

  5. Is Johnny’s comment from yesterday (the first here on this topic) not consent to the debate? I’m not sure what he’s saying. He would be much better at this than I would, but if he doesn’t want to, then I’m fine with it.

    If it is going to be me, here is my input:

    *The format Randy posted in another topic looks like a good format
    *I think the topic should be locked to everyone other than you and I until we’re finished.
    *I really have no interest in debating CENI. Any of the other topics are fine although I don’t see a great deal to debate about the gospel.
    *One other thing, and this may seem silly, but I would like my (lack of) credentials to be posted at the top of the page for each topic. By that I mean that I want everyone to understand that I’m not a paid preacher and the only formal religious education I have is a religious studies class in college. I don’t want anyone to get the idea that I’m a know-it-all with a formal education in these areas. I’m not a religious scholar, just a student of God’s word. I could actually type out a brief description to be used. Again, this may sound silly to others, but it is important to me.

    Just let me know how we’re going to proceed if it is going to be me instead of Johnny.

  6. I think a debate with Corey would be way more enlightening. Corey has been nothing short of respectful and cordial. A discussion with him would be fruitful. A debate with JR would last minutes and the entire time he would throw some sort of insult and display nursery school type behavior (evidence of his previous comments)

    My vote is for Corey as something would actually be discussed in a respectful manner.

  7. Dear readers
    the last person we would like to see is Corey
    He is more likely to end up like Maxey than become more like old time gospel preachers who’s preaching brought the Lord’s church to the fastest growing level it has seen since the days of the Apostles
    He is soooooo worried he might offend someone and his style is sooooo important he cant accomplish anything

    Hey but since thee are only 5 people who will see it , it might not ….
    well he will let the truth suffer with them too
    so why not let one of our 1 st year students do it

  8. dmh said
    I think a debate with Corey would be way more enlightening. Corey has been nothing short of respectful and cordial. A discussion with him would be fruitful

    see here is my point Corey
    they all like you and want you to represent us.

    Lu 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

    You are cordial and (weak) and they like having you on because they see it as fruitful.

    When we debate they try and sue us for showing the debate again ! Why? They suffer!

    Corey does not represent the church of Christ ya’ll he is a liberal

  9. pick me I will be nice
    I will let you all get away with all kinds of inconsistent stuff
    I won’t call you out for the hypcrites you are

    signed Corey

    here is Jesus

    Mt 23:13 ¶ But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
    14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

    you all are false teachers and Jesus gives you tough uncompromising words
    You can complain about my style all you like

    there are plenty of folk who are eatting my DVDs up because we are exposing the wolves around here

  10. Johnny, you have absolutely no call to make comments about Corey. As far as I can reckon, the only difference between the two of you is not doctrinal, but methodological. That, and Corey exhibits a genuine Christ-like attitude that makes his arguments reasonably compelling. Rather like Norm on some occasions.

    As to your 1st year students… um, nope. This isn’t a training ground for future acolytes. They are welcome to participate in other ongoing conversations, though.

    Finally, you made a crack about “five people” seeing the debate. Well, even if that were so, that would be okay. From my perspective, it’s about iron sharpening iron, although Corey wouldn’t consider me a fellow believer. But, fortunately, that’s not the case. We are preparing to get our 50,000th hit in the next day or so. And believe me, those hits are coming from all over the place. In internet lingo, that means we have a bunch of lurkers. But lurkers like to read! So, hopefully our debate will go out far and wide to folks from all over.

  11. On June 11, 2008 at 9:20 am JP Manzi Said:

    I think a debate with Corey would be way more enlightening. Corey has been nothing short of respectful and cordial.

    You see Corey? you are the man to the false teachers!

    Was Jesus their man? No! They hated Jesus
    They love Corey
    Joh 15:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

    Joh 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
    20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

  12. On June 11, 2008 at 9:32 am answeringchurchofchrist Said:

    Johnny, you have absolutely no call to make comments about Corey. As far as I can reckon,

    Here is what yu need to reckon nathan
    we dont determine our actions by your reckoning
    you are a false teacher and we see everything opposite of you

    So dont think we care about your visionary comments

    we are here to defeat destroy you and uplift truth

    Jesus would call you a hypocrite for not assembling with baptist over baptism mode and organization
    when it is all “methodology”

    petty petty petty

  13. Nathan said
    We are preparing to get our 50,000th hit in the next day or so.
    do the math nathan
    10 guys all day 300 hits a day

    you are not doing very well

  14. one of our websites has 5000 hits on 2 videos alone and we havent even touched the site in 11 months
    that is 5000 different people
    yours are 5 guys and gals hitting it sometimes 3000 times in a day
    do you math

  15. You know Johnny, I think I am beginning to understand you a little bit better. For some reason, you’ve taken these verses that are talking about actual real hatred and persecution and somehow twisted them to apply to yourself to the point where you apparently feel like you have to be disliked by everyone, or you have to illicit negativity in order to be doing the right thing for Christ.

    I think the point of those Scriptures is not that you should work to be disliked, but that when you follow Christ, you will be disliked. You don’t have to chase after it when you are a follower of Christ.

    Don’t forget this Scripture passage:

    “We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.”
    (2 Corinthians 5:20)

    Do you know the job of an ambassador? Diplomacy is a huge part of the job.

    Here are some more verses for you to consider:

    “The Lord is full of compassion and mercy.” James 5:11b
    “Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.” Col 3:12
    “Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.” Philippians 4:5
    “… the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.” Galatians 5:22-23
    “For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith… brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ”. 2 Peter 1:5-8 NIV

  16. Johnny, you sound like AC Smith with your 300 and 3000 comments from one person…..if this blog isnt doing anything, why waste your time here? The facts are that this blog is exposing the ultra-hyper-cons like yourself and showing other people that there are those like Corey, Clint, John Dobbs, Nick, Ray, Jeff, and other church of Christ conservatives who are Christ like and do not act up as you do and still preach the same doctrine as you…..you just don’t get it do you Johnny? Corey and the others believe the same as you do, but present the truth in love – while you use hate…….that’s the difference Johnny…..

  17. On June 11, 2008 at 9:53 am answeringchurchofchrist Said:
    You know Johnny, I think I am beginning to understand you a little bit better. For some reason, you’ve taken these verses that are talking about actual real hatred and persecution and somehow twisted them to apply to yourself to the point where you apparently feel like you have to be disliked by everyone, or you have to illicit negativity in order to be doing the right thing for Christ.

    – right on point Nathan !!

  18. “we are here to defeat destroy you and uplift truth”

    Now, if that doesn’t say it all in a nutshell, I don’t know what will.

    So, your interpretation of God’s John 3:16 love as found in Jesus Christ involves “destroying” people you consider to be unbelievers?

    I am worried for you now, Johnny.

  19. Didn’t Jesus come to seek and save the lost? Doesn’t the devil seek and destroy?? I think Johnny may have stuck his foot in his mouth with that comment – or worse, revealed his heart.

  20. “dmh said
    I think a debate with Corey would be way more enlightening. Corey has been nothing short of respectful and cordial. A discussion with him would be fruitful”

    – First off did not make this statement, but I wish I had.
    – Second JR or anyone? What has Corey said that can be categorized as liberal? This is insane. Is it liberal to express your thoughts in cognitive manner? Is it liberal not to act superior to others? Someone please explain to me why he does not approve of Corey’s actions.

    “so why not let one of our 1st year students do it”
    – What 1st year students? Do you run some type of training academy? Where is the Biblical authority for this? This was a strange statement.

    “You see Corey? you are the man to the false teachers”
    – Again we have the false teacher mantra. You have only shown that “false teachers” are people who do not agree with you on certain issues of scripture interpretation. This is not supported by the Bible, and quite frankly it is getting pretty old.

  21. “Corey does not represent the church of Christ ya’ll he is a liberal

    Okay, I give up.

    I cannot believe that I made such a business out of you, Johnny Robertson.

    Because now I have to wonder if you are really an evil person after all.

    Instead, you are just… a blithering idiot!

    And sad to say, I’m not sorry for having to observe that, either.

    “He is a liberal”? Is that the best you can come up with?!

    PPPPHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

    Folks, seriously, I am now regretting that I spent any time at all countering this, God forgive me for saying it, poor lost soul.

    “Liberal”, Johnny?

    That word, along with “conservative”, has been used so bloody often that it’s completely lost all meaning!

    If you’ve ever read my blog, you already know that this is a long-standing belief of mine. A person can have “conservative” or “liberal” leanings on issues. But to make a blanket charge that a person is a “liberal” or a “conservative” is symptomatic of a very petty, shallow, spiteful mind.

    And that’s all you really do have, isn’t it Johnny?

    Oh yeah, you know the words of the Bible. But you don’t know the meaning and spirit of the Bible and now I have to wonder if you possibly can know that at all!

    I’m sorry folks. You see, Johnny Robertson, he puts on a good show of it. But he’s not really evil. He just can’t see the world with anything other than the mentality of professional wrestling.

    The moment he described Corey as a “liberal”, I knew: Johnny Robertson was not an important man at all.

    Certainly not worth having a theological battle with.

    Corey, I have disagreements with you on some things. But I do not consider you to be a “liberal”. Or a “conservative” either. I think too much of people than to be so cheap as to relegate them to either category, as if that is supposed to be what defines them. It takes doing something galactically stupid for me to think less of anyone. And calling someone “conservative” or “liberal” is the fastest way to achieve that.

    Corey, I sincerely apologize to you for even for a moment thinking that you were in the same camp as Robertson.

    Seriously Corey, I do ask for your forgiveness about that. I was wrong to assume that, and I have no problem admitting to it. You are definitely not of the same cloth as this… loon.

    Heck Corey, if you’re ever in town, I’ll take you out to dinner, just to show no hard feelings. My e-mail is theknightshift@gmail.com Feel free to write me anytime to take me up on that offer.

    This is too good. This makes my day! This is, very much, a gift from God.

    And you thought my film was bad, Johnny? High school physics teachers and college instructors across the country have asked for DVDs of it, because they said it makes quantum mechanics “easy to understand”.

    Not for everyone, apparently…

    (And yes, I do admit that the lesser angels of my nature are rather mirthful at the moment. But I like to think that God has sufficient grace to forgive me for that :-P)

    Oh well, at least I got to make good on my promise to the cast and crew to show Schrodinger’s Bedroom on broadcast television.

    And word has reached me that at least one other well-known person is “furious” that I didn’t provide the show that had been expected on Sunday night.

    Oh yeah…

    “one of our websites has 5000 hits on 2 videos alone and”

    Big deal. Just ONE of my videos has had over 220,000 hits.

    You’re not worth another moment of my time, Johnny Robertson. With one word, you demonstrated that.

    I would even say that it’s a waste of time for anyone to be concerned about Robertson and Oldfield and Fields any more. It really is the spiritual equivalent of wrestling with a pig: you only get dirty and the pig likes it.

    And that’s all Robertson, Oldfield and Fields really are, aren’t they? They are spiritual pigs.

    Johnny Robertson, ladies and gentlemen: All Hat and No Cattle.

    P.S.: Johnny, learn to spell. People are laughing at you just for that.

  22. Pingback: ’nuff said? « Answering the Church of Christ

  23. What 1st year students? Do you run some type of training academy?

    – yes, he has a preaching school, well now its call training preachers

  24. While Nathan and Corey debate I would like to offer my services to debate Johnny…..one church of Christ preacher to another……on the following issues:
    Who is the enemy? Who is a false teacher?

    Or, perhaps on ministry approach.

    Really, Johnny…who did Jesus call “hypocrites”? Those who were sincerely striving for God, but were mistaken in some areas, or those who were insincerely religious, who didn’t care about God’s will?
    Doesn’t Jude 22-23 call for different approaches to different people? And it seems like (maybe I’m wrong) all you want to do is “hate even the garment stained by the flesh,” while neglecting “have mercy on those who doubt,” and “save others by snatching them out of the fire.”

  25. Johnny Robertson said…

    “there are plenty of folk who are eatting my DVDs up because we are exposing the wolves around here”

    IIRC, supporters of L. Ron Hubbard boast the same thing about his book “Dianetics”. And then it turned out that THEY are buying the books themselves, then putting them BACK on store shelves and buying them again, etc…

    Dare I say:

    “L. John Rubbardson”

    ?

    😛

  26. On June 11, 2008 at 12:04 pm cthoward Said:
    While Nathan and Corey debate I would like to offer my services to debate Johnny…..one church of Christ preacher to another……on the following issues:
    Who is the enemy? Who is a false teacher?

    Or, perhaps on ministry approach.

    Really, Johnny…who did Jesus call “hypocrites”? Those who were sincerely striving for God, but were mistaken in some areas, or those who were insincerely religious, who didn’t care about God’s will?
    Doesn’t Jude 22-23 call for different approaches to different people? And it seems like (maybe I’m wrong) all you want to do is “hate even the garment stained by the flesh,” while neglecting “have mercy on those who doubt,” and “save others by snatching them out of the fire.”

    – I would love this debate !!!!

  27. Corey said:

    “Is Johnny’s comment from yesterday (the first here on this topic) not consent to the debate? I’m not sure what he’s saying. He would be much better at this than I would, but if he doesn’t want to, then I’m fine with it.”

    Just to clear this up, the first comment was not Johnny, but was actually “to Johnny”-don’t worry, I thought it was Johnny at first too, and was surprised he would pull out this verse!

    Anyway, thought I would help 🙂

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