In case you were wondering what was on that DVD that Chris didn’t show on Sunday night, he has uploaded it to the internet and given us permission to embed it here for your viewing pleasure.
You can comment here, or directly to Chris over at his blog: The Knight Shift.
Answering the Church of Christ 
Nice video Chris. I do appreciate you standing up to these bullies but I am not quite sure why your big disagreement with them is over baptism. You rightly confront their wicked stance on certain issues (like damning everyone else) then you deny a central doctrine of the Church universal since the Church began. Baptism. Chris, in order to come to the “its a symbol only” stance you must deny the early church fathers, church teachings and the bible.
Kudos, though, it was an entertaining video.
I don’t deny that baptism is important, JP. Not at all.
I was saved late in 1996. I wasn’t baptized until a little over two years later and personally, I have always treasured that moment as a sign in my own life that I was saved by the grace of God.
But I’ve never believed that my baptism had any saving power in and of itself.
It’s just water. There is nothing mystical or supernatural or “holy” about it. And as an act of “obedience”, water baptism was never mandated as a requirement.
1st Peter 3:21 tell us that…
“and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,”
So many have tried to make this mean that water baptism saves… but it does not. Peter only writes that the water is a symbol of that baptism which alone can save: that of the Holy Spirit, which John the Baptist wrote that Christ would do.
There is a deeper clue in the verse: that baptism is a “pledge of good conscience toward God”. This is taken to mean that baptism is an act by which we should demonstrate that our conscience is now turned to God through Jesus Christ.
But the key here is “a good conscience”.
Was Simon Magus – also called Simon the Sorceror – saved? I mean, we are told in Acts chapter 8 that this man “proclaimed himself someone great” and had “believed” and was even “baptized”.
And then Simon Magus tried to purchase the power of the Holy Spirit with money. Peter told him that “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money!”
So was Simon Magus saved or not? According to the doctrine that the so-called “Church of Christ” in this area preaches, he believed and was baptized so… it’s only logical that he WAS saved!
Except Simon Magus did not have the good conscience. His baptism meant nothing. For all his boasting, he only proved that he was a wet sinner.
That’s all any of us are, if we trust in a physical act more or even merely in addition to the finished work of Christ on the cross.
Having stated that Chris, there are still the verses that teach a connection of baptism and forgiveness. Ask yourself this: At what point were those forgiven in Acts 2? Peter preached to them, they clearly believed – had faith in Christ evidenced by their pricked hearts and by the question they ask Peter “what shall we DO”? Peter could have said DO…are you serious, you don’t DO anything, you just believed the message I preached and had faith in the Christ I preached, so you are forgiven upon that….but note, Peter didn’t say that, he told them “repent AND be baptized for the remission of sins. There is no way around this. And the other verse you quotes from Peter…..you may want to look at that again , it also teaches a connection between baptism and forgiveness….there is much that could be said on that verse http://www.piney.com/1Peter3-21.html
Denying the sacredness of baptism is what can happen when we rely on our own fallible interpretations. We can easily deny a key element of the Christian Faith, the saving power of baptism. Chris, I see those verses you posted and reasoning. What do you say to yourself when you read the words of those who lived close to the time Jesus walked the earth? What about early councils? What about the earliest Church? The Catholics, The Orthodox? The Lutherans?
JP,
All I know is what I have read from scripture.
Everything else is… well, not that consequential.
“In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity.”
I guess the question we should ask: Did Peter preach a non-essential baptism? If so, he tied it to repentance too,meaning repentance would also be non-essential.
In Acts 2 verse 38 it never does say to be baptized and you will be saved. The Bible tells us in Romans 10 verse 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. It never says and to be baptized. God commands us to be baptized as an outward physical showing that we want to repent for our sins. But the true repenting must be within our hearts. You cannot physically do something to earn your way to heaven.
Works will not get us to heaven. God wants us to do good works because we desire in our hearts to, not because we think it will get us to heaven. He tells us to love everyone as He does. It’s hard to sometimes love some people. Until we can truly in our hearts love that person we are not doing as God tells us.
Truth, please explain what Acts 2:38 means. Far as Romans 10 goes, does it state there that one must repent? We have went over this already on here, please look at some of the older post on this subject.
Do we believe the bible just fell out of the sky and we can interpret it anyway we please? How can some of you guys take the bible out of its context. God entrusted the Holy Bible to the Church. Again, how can you not look at the Church councils, early fathers and documents? This evangelical faith only approach is relatively new and foreign to historic Christendom.
With Respect.
My work is done. Johnny Robertson provided an answer to my question after all.
And that answer is, from Johnny himself:
“We are here to defeat destroy you…”
http://theknightshift.blogspot.com/2008/06/johnny-robertson-sez-we-are-here-to.html
Thank you, Johnny.
The record will reflect this long after the memory of whatever happened in the past few days on WGSR has faded.
And people in years to come will know that Johnny Robertson of the Martinsville Church of Christ declared that it was his God-ordained mission to “defeat (and) destroy you”.
Forever, Johnny. Forever. You can’t take that back.
I said the other night that Christianity is not a competition.
But you made it one. And then you made the mistake of framing this as a short-term debate for your own glory…
…while you, quite foolishly, took on – if God might indulge me to boast this one time – a historian. Someone with a much more long-term perspective of things.
In a battle of wits, Johnny Robertson, you came unarmed.
And your own words now testify against you. Forever.
I did not come seeking a “victory” of any sort. I just wanted an answer to a question. This day, the Lord has doubly blessed me.
Again, thank you Johnny.
Forever.
Hello,
I am a member of the body of Christ. I came across this web site while I was looking for some Bible study materials. I think you misunderstand Johny Robertson or are unwilling to recognize his convictions.
1) There is no doubt that he believes he is loving and glorifying God (John 14:15) by exposing what he believes to be false doctrine (Ephesians 5:11) and preaching the gospel he believes to be true (Romans 1:16). Love isn’t always an emotional euphoria. Love can hurt, can pierce the soul, and cause people to be angry (Hebrews 4:12; James 1: 19).
2) There is not one passage of scripture that reads “those that are not baptized will not be saved.” When I look at how much Bible Johny Robertson knows I would imagine he knows this simple fact. Johny and most within the churches of Christ believes that the Bible necessarily infers that those who are not baptized (obeyed the gospel) are not saved. a) Peter said that baptism saves (1 Peter 3:21). Therefore those that are not baptized are not saved. b) Paul says that every spiritual blessing is “in Him” or in Christ. Paul states that we are “baptized into Christ” (Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27). Therefore those who have not been baptized into Christ are not saved because every spiritual blessing is in Christ and they are not in Christ (Ephesians 1:3). c) Peter states that baptism is for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38). Sin separates men from God (Isaiah 59:2; Romans 3:9). Therefore through baptism our sins are forgiven and we are reconciled to God (Romans 5:10). Through necessary inference Johny concludes that those who are not baptized are not saved.
As I watched the film by Chris Knight, read the cards he held up, and saw the approach he made on Johny Robertson I was asking Chris the same question Chris was asking Johny… “How is what you are doing loving and glorifying God?” You say Johny rants, is timid, and spews hatred and discord. Can you see the problem? It seems you have accused Johny of doing the very thing you are practicing in your film. Telling the truth in love is right but to point the finger at someone for supposedly not glorifying God in a certain manner and then to turn around and do the same thing is hypocritical.
Chris Knight, I am a preacher in the church of Christ. I would love to talk to you about what I believe and why I believe it. Feel free to email me any time. My email is Drew24p@aol.com.
In Service to Him,
Andrew
Chris,
I perceive that Mr. Robertson and yourself believe the same thing…about each other. I must say, he was much more gracious, even-tempered and intelligible than you were in your video. He had a schedule to keep and bore with you quite patiently I thought.
Peter was not saying, in 1 Peter 3:21, that water baptism was a symbol! He was saying that the flood and the waters that the ark rode upon symbolized baptism. Read the whole subject in context my friend.
And we also agree that baptism, in the example of Simon the sorcerer and anyone else for that matter, doesn’t save anyone of and by itself. Peter was talking to believers in Acts 2 when he said (in any translation) 1.Repent, and 2.be baptized EVERYONE of you for: the forgiveness (or remission) of sins and 3. you WILL receive the Holy Spirit. This is precisely what Jesus meant when he told Nicodemus “unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God”. When a person is baptized (immersed) what do they come out of the water looking like? A newborn baby! Jesus was not being redundant and telling Nicodemus he needed to be born of a woman. He already was! No, Jesus was telling what He repeats in Matthew 28:19 and what John repeats again in 1 John 5:6-8 – “This is he who came by water and blood–Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.”
The water that testifies is not Mary’s afterbirth! It is the baptism by John the Baptist that Jesus was obedient in and the Spirit testified to. Another testimony to water and blood is when both came out of the Savior’s pierced side. Don’t you understand that there was a point to that? Why do you think John made a point of mentioning that and repeating the significance of water AND blood? They go together my friend.
Even if you believe he is wrong, I wish you would feel as Paul that “What then? only that in every way, whether in pretence or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and therein I rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.” (Philippians 1:18)
Baptism isn’t optional – it is required and every example of conversion was accompanied by it the same day, if not the same hour. In many cases it was commanded by apostolic authority that the converted be baptized….including Cornelius. Our entire New testament is written or attested to by the Apostles, so why finagle over what they said was required?
There are plenty of scriptures that tell us baptism is how we become clothed in Christ by dying with Him (Romans 6:4-5). Compare Hebrews 10:22 with Titus 3:5. Both refer to water AND Spirit, not the Spirit alone. How do you think we are united with Him in a death like His? It certainly doesn’t mean we are nailed to a cross, but that we were buried with Him in baptism. That’s scripture! Not my opinion.
Jesus was NOT referring only to Jews when He commanded baptism. He told the disciples to go and make disciples of ALL nations and to baptize them and then teach them all that he had commanded them. (Matt 28:19-20)
Baptism without faith is dead. But faith without baptsm is dead also, to paraphrase James, the very brother of Christ Jesus.
There is no point in saying “he that believes not and is not baptized is condemned” because the lack of the first act obviates the second!
God bless!
P.S. As a historian you should be very aware that the Roman Catholic church, Anglican, and Calvinist theocracies persecuted and killed many who insisted on “re-baptism” because they read what the Bible said about believing and repenting BEFORE you could be baptized (following Peter’s advice). You are harassing Mr. Robertson for the same reason and I would worry you aren’t actually being influenced by the same spirit that made Calvin and Zwingli willing to have anabaptists, and anyone who disagreed with them, killed “in the name of the Lord”?
That, again, is not my opinion, but historical fact.
On June 14, 2008 at 1:37 am prodigalknot Said:
Chris,
Peter was not saying, in 1 Peter 3:21, that water baptism was a symbol! He was saying that the flood and the waters that the ark rode upon symbolized baptism. Read the whole subject in context my friend.
And we also agree that baptism, in the example of Simon the sorcerer and anyone else for that matter, doesn’t save anyone of and by itself. Peter was talking to believers in Acts 2 when he said (in any translation) 1.Repent, and 2.be baptized EVERYONE of you for: the forgiveness (or remission) of sins and 3. you WILL receive the Holy Spirit. This is precisely what Jesus meant when he told Nicodemus “unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God”. When a person is baptized (immersed) what do they come out of the water looking like? A newborn baby! Jesus was not being redundant and telling Nicodemus he needed to be born of a woman. He already was! No, Jesus was telling what He repeats in Matthew 28:19 and what John repeats again in 1 John 5:6-8 – “This is he who came by water and blood–Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.”
The water that testifies is not Mary’s afterbirth! It is the baptism by John the Baptist that Jesus was obedient in and the Spirit testified to. Another testimony to water and blood is when both came out of the Savior’s pierced side. Don’t you understand that there was a point to that? Why do you think John made a point of mentioning that and repeating the significance of water AND blood? They go together my friend.
– very good! If you dont mind, I would like o hijack this and post on my blog
Fleshly works will not save you. The Bible tells us our Faith in God, our belief in what Jesus did for us saves us. Romans 4, What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God,and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
But to him who does not work but belives on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man God imputes righteousness apart from works:
“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
To Chris
Historians are those who know history!
In 2000 the local news paper in Martinsville ran a front page feature in which my picture appeared with this caption
“Does this man want to close your church”
The answer was yes! Chris did you just wake up?
The goal of all in the true church is to destroy, defeat, pull down, remove, all that exalts itself against the knowledge of God.
2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
Our weapon is the sword of the Spirit…
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Chris you didnt expose anything
Everyone already knew that this is our agenda
Thank you for getting the light on us for our summer tent meet
Chris the historian has made us so visible that we will surely have the best crowds ever
Thanks be to the memory of Diane Odell for being baptized even though confined for life in the iron lung.
This will be talked of Chris (in eternity) thanks
Johnny Robertson
Thanks to all who have spoken out about the way Chris ha behaved both on his blog and TV
On June 10, 2008 at 9:30 pm Truth Said:
Works will not get us to heaven. God wants us to do good works because we desire in our hearts to, not because we think it will get us to heaven. He tells us to love everyone as He does.
Johnny replies by posting Apostle Paul the real faithful preacher
Ac 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
What does Paul say Jesus told him? (Truth)< please answer here!_________________________________
put down the exact words
Let me help
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Ac 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
What did you preach as result of the heavenly vision PAul?
repent & turn to God and do works meet for repentance
Luther said no works not Paul
if Paul said no works … the context would be “of the Old Testament” kind
even the Ephesians had to be baptized twice
Act 19:1-6 they were gentiles and had submitted to Jewish baptism of John the baptist administered by Apollos (Ac 18:
Ac 18:24 ¶ And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
hope this is helpful
Chris said
Except Simon Magus did not have the good conscience. His baptism meant nothing. For all his boasting, he only proved that he was a wet sinner.
so Chris I guess you are saying that since he went back to his old desires for the moment, that he was not saved?
Have you ever gone back?
Your website has been so filled with the vilest talk that only could be called “gutter” talk.
Have you not cleaned up your Heart?
Mt 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
You allowed threats of physical violence to be made over your blog.
You allowed “homosexual slang” to be spoken toward Charles who is an unbeliever, the very people you all claim I am turning away from truth.
Chris did you know that 5 of Charles employees have become members of the church of Christ since I began working there?
Did you know His mother and friends have attended home Bible studies with me?
Why is it these people that you want to sue have affinity toward me?
Why are you not trying to help them?
It is my stated goal… “to see Charles go to heaven”
What is yours?
To see him have the_________ beat out of him?
Why?
Because he gave you free time?
Are you any different than Simon?
Are you really saved?
Haven’t you demonstrated that you are still filled with…..
Jas 3:11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
I hope to see you go to heaven to Chris!
Remember;
Saul was a hater first…
If I can help you let me know
Acts 26:20 in the NIV
“First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.”
The works (or deeds) prove their repentance.
“Meet” (from the KJV) is from the Greek “axios”, which means, “befitting, congruous, corresponding to a thing” in the context of this passage.
So, literally, it means, “works befitting repentance.”
This is much like the arguments found in James 2:20 – that faith without works is dead. If you have faith, it will show in your works.
“What shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? ‘And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.’ Now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.” Romans 4:1-5
Once we have faith in God and repent for our sins the rest will follow. With our faith we should desire to do works. But the works are not what will get us to heaven it is our faith.
Perfectly stated Nathan and this is some of the things someone seen while preparing to debate Jeff Black.
“The works (or deeds) prove their repentance”. As AC Smith told Johnny “they often get the root confused with the fruit”. I have watched this debate over and over as others have and it’s now clear that Johnny lost this debate too.
Johnny Robertson, if Chris Knight repents and is baptized into the Church of Christ will you take down all the videos you have put up about him?
Johnny Robertson, you bragged that you had the community turned against Chris Knight. If Chris Knight repents and is baptized into the Church of Christ will you also tell the community to take Chris back?
On June 11, 2008 at 11:13 am Chris Knight Said:
My work is done
I got my movie on at all cost. All it took was a little lying and decieving.
Johnny saud:
“The goal of all in the true church is to destroy, defeat, pull down, remove, all that exalts itself against the knowledge of God.”
What a statement-yet it does not reveal the full truth of his heart and evil agenda-what this REALLY translates to is that the goal is to “destroy, defeat, pull down, remove all of the people who do not agree exactly like me and will not join me in destroying others, too”.
Then, he goes on to admit that he does use the Bible as a weapon-not in the way it should be used and what that verse describes-to fight satan, but to fight and destroy brothers and sisters.
It really is sickening. Johnny, you need to let your own plan go and get on board with God’s plan.
That should have been “Johnny said”
Good questions, Heather.
If baptism doesn’t have anything to do with salvation then I guess the statement that Jesus Christ made in Mark 16 makes Him guilty of imperfection. Who is ready to come to that conclusion?
Jesus said baptism saves and there is no man on this earth that can change that fact.
GOD SAID IT, THAT SETTLES IT, WHETHER YOU WANT TO BELIEVE IT OR NOT.
I thought that the act of being baptised(water)is only the symbol,but i believe being TRUE baptism is separate and deeper in meaning.
I would like to see the scripture for another baptism besides water baptism. And don’t say holy spirit baptism that only happened to a handful of people. Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism.
I would even settle for the verse that says it is a symbol. 1 Pe 3:21 baptism also saves us… can’t get around it.
On March 1, 2009 at 6:36 am Micah Said:
I would like to see the scripture for another baptism besides water baptism. And don’t say holy spirit baptism that only happened to a handful of people. Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism
Col 2:12having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.
Is this statement a literal statement, were your physically burried in a tom for 3 days like Jesus during baptism? I hope not since you would die after about 3 minutes or so under the water.
Therefore this statement about baptism is a symbolic statement showing that we die to our one self and are raised into a new life to follow Jesus.
Now more off topic but yet still symbolic about baptism is the following:
Mark 10:38″You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said. “Can you drink the cup I drink or be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?”
What is Jesus talking about here? A bath or death? If death then baptism is a symbol of his death!
18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
Eight saved though water in Noah’s time????? No eight were saved because of the ark that was built, the water killed thousands upon thousands of people and animals etc. they all drowned. How many went under water in Noah’s time who lived?
The Ark saved them, water killed everyone else, I have read this more then once and really wonder how Peter made this connection to prove baptism when the opposite of what he was giving as an example is the result in his example.