Another Reasonable-sounding Church of Christ Blog

I keep coming across these blogs that belong to Church of Christ members – and they come across as so reasonable and Christlike in their approach.  I really wish that the folks who attend the churches where our three TV hosts teach would get a good dose of the grace and mercy that folks profess.

Here is Ben’s blog.

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553 thoughts on “Another Reasonable-sounding Church of Christ Blog

  1. You know – the more I chat and search blogs/sites, the more I am seeing that these three men here are indeed a rare and dying breed.

  2. This quote:

    Some have heard that we don’t use instruments in our worship services… that is true of some of the ‘old-school’ churches… but generally, most Churches of Christ now allow instruments in worship

    simply isn’t true. A survey by the Christian Chronicle said:

    The vast majority of congregations of Churches of Christ (97.5 percent) report they have never used instrumental music in a worship service.

    That is less than 3%. Here is the source:
    http://www.christianchronicle.org/article2158352~The_character_of_our_congregations

  3. When someone says something like this:

    Church of Christ church

    Then I know what is about to follow is likely going to be nothing like what the Bible promotes about the church. First of all that statement is redundant. This sounds like something a little child would say. Even someone who disagrees with us would see how rediculous that sounds. Second, by using that type of language, this gentlman is obviously showing his ecumenical attitude by relegating the ownership of the church to just another denomination title.

    Nathan, at least be fair and compare apples to apples. Do you think Southern baptists would claim Fred Phelps?

    Joey

  4. To be accurate, the group participating in this study is classified as “Church of Christ (non-instrumental)”.

    http://fact.hartsem.edu/partners/coc-non.html

    What’s interesting is that less than 3% of churches that are “non-instrumental” have used instrumental music in a worship service.

  5. An “instrumental” church of Christ is really just a Christian Church calling itself a church of Christ.

  6. The people in an “instrumental” church of Christ would probably disagree with you, Corey.

  7. They might. If there was a Baptist church that practiced sprinkling instead of immersion the overwhelming majority of Baptists would say “they aren’t Baptists”. The same applies here, and I believe that is also what Joey was saying.

    Look at it like this: the overwhelming majority of those who call themselves “churches of Christ” do not use instruments. Even if there are more than 3% of congregations wearing that name and using instruments, there wouldn’t be anywhere close to approaching 50% using instruments. That means that when he said “most” now allow instruments, that statement is false.

  8. “An “instrumental” church of Christ is really just a Christian Church calling itself a church of Christ.”

    If this is the only real difference, would you consider Christian Churches to be a legitimate Church that has gone apostate? Are they doomed for using a form of worship that the NT is completely silent on; or is use/non-use of IM purely traditional?

    I am not trying to bash your beliefs, you seem to be pretty respectfull from other threads. Just wondering if you could elaborate more on this.

  9. “If this is the only real difference, would you consider Christian Churches to be a legitimate Church that has gone apostate? Are they doomed for using a form of worship that the NT is completely silent on; or is use/non-use of IM purely traditional”

    The CofC preachers here would say so – right Joey? But here you will tell me its not what the preachers here say, but “what the bible says”. There is much debate on this issue ( even within the churches of Christ )but I think the arguments dont prohibit music played by a Christian with Christian lyrics. It’s funny how I can go home and play musical instruments with Christian lyrics, but in the asembly ( at the church building ) I cant. Matter of fact was Paul even addressing the so-called worship service? Look at the entire context and aplly each verse to the so-called worship service and then you will have your answer…anyways, nuff said.

  10. DMH,

    In some Christian Churches that is the only difference (instrumental music), although most of them have also introduced other innovations to worship and the work of the church. Most Christian Churches are great examples of the “slippery slope”. Once you allow one innovation or change in, where do you stop?

    As they teach the Biblical plan of salvation, and in many instances are true to the word of God, I would consider them brethren who are not showing proper respect for God’s word and the silence therein. I would not go as far as to say they are doomed (since that too would be to go beyond the word), but they are doing something in their worship that God may see as sinful. I would not worship with them unless they removed their instruments and began to respect the silence of the scriptures. There are plenty of Biblical examples of God being displeased with human innovation and changes to His commandments. I wish they would see those and learn from them. I couldn’t extend my fellowship to them until they do.

  11. Randy wrote:
    It’s funny how I can go home and play musical instruments with Christian lyrics, but in the asembly ( at the church building ) I cant.

    You’re assuming that everyone thinks that you can do that. I do not.

  12. Corey,

    Thank you for your answer. I am glad to see that you have taken the reasonable approach and simply chosen not to participate in a worship service you feel is personally in error. If you feel the Bible teaches that IM is wrong, then by all means avoid it. I am still curious where in the NT the principle of silence of the scriptures is layed out. For instance most Churches of Christ I have been to have a song leader, paid professional preachers, Wed. night Church services, mandated weekly communion, praise teams, etc.
    I do not believe they are wrong for doing so, but these are certainly human innovations. How can we be so sure that this does not violate the principle of silence as well? Why would IM fall under this principle, but other issues do not?

  13. DMH,

    The difference is that none of those things you mentioned change the commandments. If you have a song leader or a song book, you’re still just singing (which is all we’re commanded to do). In fact, some of the things you mentioned (paid preachers, Wed. night meetings) are directly mentioned and allowed in scriptures. “Praise teams” are not mentioned and usually participate in some unscriptural activities.

    When you add instruments you are now singing (commanded) and playing (not commanded). That is going beyond what is written. It is using an Old Testament form of worship that wasn’t carried over under the New Testament. The old example that is always given is Noah. He was told to use gopher wood. How he got it, transported it, etc. – all of those things were left to him. As long as he used only that type of wood, God would be pleased. If he used gopher wood and pine, then he was changing the commandment. I see the commandment for Christians today to sing the same way I see Noah’s commandment to use gopher wood.

  14. Randy,

    The CofC preachers here would say so – right Joey? But here you will tell me its not what the preachers here say, but “what the bible says”.

    Since you answered that Ill answer this one:

    It’s funny how I can go home and play musical instruments with Christian lyrics, but in the asembly ( at the church building ) I cant

    Since you purport to know us so well you should already know we have never promoted “christian music” with instruments outside of the assembly. So Corey and I are on the same page.

  15. Thank you for taking the time to answer.

    “Paid preachers, Wed. night meetings are directly mentioned and allowed in scriptures.”

    – Where?

    “Praise teams” are not mentioned and usually participate in some unscriptural activities”

    – How could praise teams be unscriptural and song books and song leaders are not? Aren’t they just aiding worship too? Couldn’t instruments be used to aid the singing as well? Where in the Bible are actions that alter the form of worship characterized and described?

    I am familiar with he Noah analogy, but this was a direct, specific command. I do not see that the NT has specific commands regarding proper congregational singing.
    Also, if musical instruments were allowed in OT worship, why do we believe God would change his mind on the subject and not tell anyone? How can we use OT stories like Noah to support the idea that OT practices are now wrong? This seems like odd circular reasoning to me.

  16. Joey,

    Are you comparing me to Fred Phelps? Wow, that’s quite a stretch!

    Thanks for humoring me today!

  17. DMH,

    Paying preachers and elders:
    1 Tim 5:17-18
    There is another verse that I can’t find as well.

    Wednesday night meetings:
    Acts 2:46

    I have little experience with “praise teams”, but many examples I’ve heard of involve women in leadership and trying to invoke pure emotionalism, rather than the true emotion of spiritual worship.

    As I said earlier, instruments are an addition that changes, not an aid that simply helps.

    Why would I believe that God changed His mind on IM? The same reason I believe He changed in on alters and incense. I would no more use one of those than an instrument. I believe that the Holy Spirit was fully capable of mentioning IM if it was desired. Since it isn’t mentioned in the NT, I won’t chance my worship by adding it. We all know that singing alone is acceptable – why not be content with that? Why take chances?

  18. Benguy, surely you can’t be pleased to be called Fred Phelps. This man doesn’t just hate sin (which we should) he hates sinners (whom God does love).

    If Jesus Christ didn’t love sinners enough to come die on the cross for sinners then we all would be without hope.

  19. Benguy wrote, “Thanks for humoring me today”. My apologies I mistook “humoring” for honoring”. Bad eyesight in old age.

  20. Rick — Oh, if I were taking that comment of comparison seriously, I would be deeply offended and hurt by it — for reasons you’ve already pointed out. Fred Phelps is full of hate. I understand the comparison Joey is trying to make, claiming I’m ‘nothing’ like what a Church of Christ member should be (according to his own (Joey’s) personal standards.) I understand the comparison, but honestly, do we as Christ followers have to stoop so low to place one another in the ranks of hatemongers?

    Joey and other nay-sayers who have a hard time referring to me as part of the church of Christ…you wouldn’t believe the amount of positive feedback (via e-mails and comments posted) that my original blog post has gotten from fellow church of Christ members — of both instrumental AND non-instrumental church backgrounds.

    Rick — I’m certainly not honored by the comparison. I could get upset and offended by it, but instead, I’m just humored by it. Oh, and did you forget to put your glasses on this morning? 🙂

  21. thx ! Joey, you made my point. You can however play “wordly” lyrics with musical instruments…correct? I have ask theis of Johnny and of Jason, so I already knew what you would say when I wrote that…Can one go home after preaching and jam out to hard rock ( long as the lyrics are okay ) You might should ask Johnny what he said…I find is strange that one can play insrtuments at home to ungodly lyrics and it not be sin, but dont dare play them with Godly lyrics…see how silly that is…like I said you should ask Johnny, I still have the emails. He knows what we talked about and so dies Jason. Its ok to play an instrument with ungody lyrics, but when you mix some godly lyrics in….its sin….how stupid and silly

  22. ” if musical instruments were allowed in OT worship, why do we believe God would change his mind on the subject and not tell anyone? ”

    Good point. But they will God did by saying “sing”…which means its silent about playiing…its the speak where the bible speaks…

  23. You know, Corey, I need to tell you first of all how much I appreciate your honesty. You don’t honestly know if the people who use IM in worship are doomed, and you admit it. This is something I could never imagine our local gents doing. I don’t recall ever hearing them admit that they don’t know something when it concerns issues such as this. That doesn’t mean that they haven’t – it just means I’ve never heard them do it.

    I concur wholeheartedly with DMH that if you feel convicted against IM in worship, then by all means don’t feel like we are trying to talk you out of that conviction. Personally, I would just like for you to realize that I have studied Scripture on this subject and have come to a different conclusion than you – which is simply this – IM is not (according to my reading) displeasing to God in worship. I don’t want to rehash this argument with you – I just want you to realize that it is not just that I love the use of instruments (which I do) – it’s that I believe that Scripture shows us that they can be honoring to him.

    As to Praise Teams, and the attempt to “provoke pure emotionalism”, I would say that that probably does happen from time to time. In my experience with worship teams, that very thing is something that is always a concern – that we start to think of ourselves as more important to the process than we are. That very issue is what led Matt Redmon to write “Heart of Worship”, which says:

    I’m coming back to the heart of worship
    And it’s all about You,
    It’s all about You, Jesus
    I’m sorry, Lord, for the thing I’ve made it
    When it’s all about You,
    It’s all about You, Jesus

    But here’s the thing – that sort of pride and self-centeredness can happen ANYWHERE and in ANY WORSHIP SETTING – it can even happen in a non-instrumental church of Christ with a pastor or an elder or a song leader or even a person in the congregation who has (or who thinks they have) a really good voice.

    But I don’t despair through all of this, and here’s why:

    Paul tells us in Romans 3:10 that “…There is none righteous, no, not one…” and then he goes on to say in 3:23, “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” But the Good News comes in the next verse – that even though these things are true, we are “justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.”

    It’s all about God’s grace – not about what we bring to the table, because as the prophet Isaiah told us in 64:6, our righteousness is like filthy rags.

    Whoops. I wrote a book. Sorry.

  24. “You don’t honestly know if the people who use IM in worship are doomed, and you admit it”

    -Did Joey say that? I must have missed something. I have talked with Johnny, James, and Norm and I know for a fact they would say the opposite. One caller called in to Norms program ( Christian Church ) which believesd everything Norm did but IM and he ask Norm was he saved and Norm said NO ! And the reason was because he used music in the assembly. Maybe I am misunderstanding you Nathan or Joey, but Joey knows this is not what they teach – they would consider this liberal and outside the teaching/doctrine of Christ, meaning one would be lost for “adding” music to singing.

  25. No, Corey did. In responding to DMH, he wrote:

    “I would not go as far as to say they are doomed (since that too would be to go beyond the word), but they are doing something in their worship that God may see as sinful.”

  26. Nathan,

    If IM was the only issue of contention among those who call themselves Christians, you probably wouldn’t even see me here. Sadly, that is just one of the many issues doctrines here that I disagree with.

    People who say they know things the Bible doesn’t speak on make me nervous. What we really know about IM is this:
    *It was once acceptable and commanded
    *It is never commanded in the NT
    *We all know that singing alone is perfectly acceptable
    To say we know it is a sin is not true. When we follow the Biblical record we see that innovations to worship are often viewed by God with anger. By following that principle, we choose not to use IM, lest we take a chance with God. I am also troubled by those who say they know it isn’t a sin. No, you can’t know that. You can only know those things I’ve stated above. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, using IM under the new covenant is taking a chance.

    I also don’t want to rehash my past arguments, but I do want those who read this to know where I stand.

  27. “I am also troubled by those who say they know it isn’t a sin. No, you can’t know that. You can only know those things I’ve stated above.”

    I guess we could ask “what is sin”? I dont see how playing music with singing in the church building could be transgressing the law of God. Matter of fact, I see it as acceptable and never called sin, so that seems obvious to me that its not sin.

  28. Corey,

    I understand where you are coming from on your stance on IM. Kind of a “better safe than sorry” approach, and I cannot fault you for taking that personal stance in reverence of God. However, can you see how others could come an honest differing conclusion on such an open ended situation?

    You mention above that IM is similar to using alters and incense. Many ancient Christian faiths still use forms of alters and incense in their Church services (Eastern Orthodox I know for certain through personal experience) Are they sinning as well?

    Also, you mentioned
    Acts 2:46

    46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,

    If we were to take a literal stance on this verse, one could conclude that we should meet together everyday. (I have seen this literal approach used in regards to the Lord’s Supper and “breaking bread together on the first day of the week”) Why is this verse not given the same treatment?

  29. Randy-Nathan was referring to Corey…just to clear up the confusion.

    Nathan…very well put. I have worshipped in an a cappella cofC congregation for almost my entire life. I love the harmonies-it is absolutely beautiful. I have also been to other churches that use instruments, many Christian concerts, etc. It would take me awhile to attend a church that regularly used instruments, but it does not violate my conscience because I don’t see anywhere in the Bible where they are wrong or where God even made them an issue. WE are the ones who have created this issue, dividing and condemning over something God never intended to cause this much controversy or discord. (Corey, I am not saying you are doing this-I appreciate your stance though I cannot agree). Like I have said and Nathan has said, if there is anything that violates your conscience to participate it, by all means my interest in this study is not to ask you to do that or to cause anyone to stumble. It is only to show that we do not have the liberty to condemn where God did not. This is merely a preference we have decided to turn into a salvation issue.

    Corey, you also said that “I believe that the Holy Spirit was fully capable of mentioning IM if it was desired”. I also believe that God would have been fully capable of mentioning that it was wrong if it was.

    That is how the entire man-made idea of CENI and “speak where the Bible speaks, be silent where it is silent” hermeneutic becomes inconsistent. It cannot be applied to everything, and it only muddles down the real Gospel message. God gave us freedom-not to do whatever we want, but he did not give us another strict “to do” or “not to do” list like he did in the OT. He sent Jesus to the earth so we could have LIFE in His name.

    As to the idea of praise teams, I can say having been able to participate in various praise teams (which you may not agree b/c I am a woman, but if you can see past that please continue to read), I used to not like them either at all…but I started praying, and the realization I came to was that it was a way for me to use a gift that God has given me. But, I prayed that I would always be humble when I participated and that if it ever became about me or what I can do, I would no longer be a part-because it is ALL about God and worshipping Him. I know this is not the case for everyone, but the majority of the people that I have been able to serve with in this capacity have the same attitude and mindset; and it is a true blessing and privilege to be a part of that ministry.

  30. “46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,”

    If we were to take a literal stance on this verse, one could conclude that we should meet together everyday. (I have seen this literal approach used in regards to the Lord’s Supper and “breaking bread together on the first day of the week” Why is this verse not given the same treatment?

    Good Point and there are other places too like this.

    Great point

  31. “That is how the entire man-made idea of CENI and “speak where the Bible speaks, be silent where it is silent” hermeneutic becomes inconsistent. It cannot be applied to everything, and it only muddles down the real Gospel message.”

    well stated Kat and very true. Sorry I lost on the other ones, just walked in and logged on…

  32. “(which you may not agree b/c I am a woman, but if you can see past that please continue to read)”

    Katherine or anyone for matter,

    Honest question,

    Even if someone felt strongly that women should have no leadership roles in a church, how would being a part of praise team violate this? Do singers have a leadership role equal to Elders, Deacons, or Ministers? How is this any different than women singing in Church as a congregation?

  33. I find is strange that one can play insrtuments at home to ungodly lyrics and it not be sin

    Randy, If by “ungodly” you mean sinful then you are totally off base. You are creating our arguments from your notes and not ours.

    Joey

  34. Corey,

    Since you dont affirm that worshipping with IM is sinful then I want to point this out:

    It was once acceptable and commanded

    Nowhere is the playing of an instrument ever commanded. Not Old or New Testament.

    Joey

  35. DMH wrote:
    You mention above that IM is similar to using alters and incense. Many ancient Christian faiths still use forms of alters and incense in their Church services (Eastern Orthodox I know for certain through personal experience) Are they sinning as well?

    Quite possibly they are. I know that many of them teach a plan of salvation not found in the scriptures and that is definitely sinning. I don’t know why people are so in love with the OT methods of worship. What is wrong with the simplicity of the NT? Why go beyond that?

    DMH wrote:
    If we were to take a literal stance on this verse, one could conclude that we should meet together everyday.

    We have an example that we can meet every day if we wish. Not that we must.

    Katherine wrote:
    Corey, you also said that “I believe that the Holy Spirit was fully capable of mentioning IM if it was desired”. I also believe that God would have been fully capable of mentioning that it was wrong if it was.

    This mentality says that God had to give us a checklist of everything that is unacceptable. When God says to do a certain thing He doesn’t have to give us a list of the things we can’t do, they are excluded by the command (going back to the example of Noah). I’m sure you’ve heard the example of the Lord’s Supper – we don’t change or replace unleavened bread and fruit of the vine because the command to use them excludes all changes or replacements.

    What you said about praise teams proves my point – if women can lead part of worship as part of a praise team, why not lead elsewhere? I can pray all day about an issue, but if the conclusion I reach can’t be backed up by scripture then my conclusion is wrong.

  36. “We have an example that we can meet every day if we wish. Not that we must.”

    So, would you also say that we have an example to take the Lord’s Supper every first day of the week if we wish. Not that we must?

  37. “I would challenge Corey to go to this website and see the way the Baptist won virginia.”

    What is this and why is addressed to Corey?

  38. Joey,

    I am affirming that they are likely sinful, not that they absolutely are. To use them is unsafe at best and sinful at worst. What is a sin is going beyond the word, which using instruments in worship does. That is what I can know and affirm.

    You said:
    Nowhere is the playing of an instrument ever commanded. Not Old or New Testament.

    Lev 23:24
    Psalm 98
    Psalm 150

  39. Corey said:

    “This mentality says that God had to give us a checklist of everything that is unacceptable. When God says to do a certain thing He doesn’t have to give us a list of the things we can’t do, they are excluded by the command (going back to the example of Noah). I’m sure you’ve heard the example of the Lord’s Supper – we don’t change or replace unleavened bread and fruit of the vine because the command to use them excludes all changes or replacements.”

    I was only saying that because the mentality found in many churches of Christ is that there actually is a checklist of acceptable and unacceptable, when in reality there is no such thing. It is not the same thing as was found in Leviticus. I don’t know if people just want to do this out of comfort or what, but God has given us freedom in how we worship Him-with respect-yes, orderly-yes, but there is not a perfect picture of what that looks like.

    Yes, I have heard the example of the Lord’s Supper, and I am sorry-but that is a major stretch from what we are to use in communion to how we should sing. The argument just does not hold up when it is applied to issues like this. When we make commandments out of inferred examples, then they become man-made. When we then decide it is God’s law and condemn others for doing so, we are wrong.

    “What you said about praise teams proves my point – if women can lead part of worship as part of a praise team, why not lead elsewhere? I can pray all day about an issue, but if the conclusion I reach can’t be backed up by scripture then my conclusion is wrong.”

    Well, this is a whole other can of worms, that like I have said before-I do not have the space or the time to go into…but I do believe women can lead elsewhere based on what I read in the Bible, not my own pre-conceived ideas or conclusions (and I am certainly not a feminist). I know not everyone can agree with that based on two proof-texted passages, and I am not trying to change anyone’s mind here on that.

    I base everything I believe on what God has said-and never what man has said. Often in my heritage the views of the “church” have not been the same of what I read in the Bible-what I see God really saying, which is hard to deal with sometimes-but I will always go with what God says.

  40. Johnny,

    Please explain what that has to do with the current discussion. If it is not relevant, I’d appreciate it if you would avoid drive by posts like that in the future. If it is relevant, than please explain a bit more so that we can see how it fits into the context of the discussion.

    Thank you,
    Mr. Answer

  41. Corey,

    Lev 23:24
    – I’m not sure how you get worship out of an act that is meant to signify a gathering – “convocation”

    Psalm 98
    Psalm 150
    – Both are writings of David and not commands of God. I know you wouldn’t affirm that dancing was commanded just because David did it – 2 Sam 6:14

    Joey

  42. Corey
    these Baptist spoke out about Congregationalist Episcopals etc and brought the false religion down
    They attacked it with vigor and fervor and priase their men of old.

    Then Alexander Campbell came out of these very ranks and turned their false system on its ear
    see History of Presbytrians pg 215
    http://books.google.com/books?id=fkURAAAAIAAJ&dq=davidson%27s+history+of+presbyterian+church&pg=PP1&ots=-D7tjkm4Cc&source=citation&sig=8y_wm8wq8dEl-3cFwWMSwvZpYQE&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search%3Fq%3DDavidson%2527s%2BHistory%2Bof%2BPresby#PPA215,M1

    people ask me why i dont change to be “more effective”
    150,000 converted in early 1800s (Presbyterians supply this info)

    Corey is a weak unloving person allowing sooo many to continue lost while he hangs his cowardly head under the banner of “loving” to much to tell them the truth and get them to studying

    will you look at the url Corey?

  43. Joey,

    I would say the example in Lev 23:24 was using instruments as a call to worship since it was to call them to a sacred assembly.

    In the Psalms I mentioned David is telling Israel how to praise God and he mentions instruments. He actually does tell them to dance to praise God in Psalm 150 (which I had never noticed before). In 2 Sam 6:14, that is David spontaneously dancing as an expression of joy to the Lord and not a command.

    Are you saying that Psalms 98 and 150 aren’t inspired? Am I just missing your point? I guess I need some clarification.

    Corey

  44. no notes
    the drive point is Corey does not represent us
    he would not have lasted 1 year in the days when men were in the pulpit instead of these boys ho claim they love the truth
    clergy
    we do not apologize any more then the Baptist apologize for Semple’s History but extol it

    We have a debate for 7-10-08 against the muslims on tv and a tent to condemn baptist doctrine as from the devil in 6-23-08
    and we are not at alllllll ashamed to say so any more than they the church of england of 1774

  45. Yes they are inspired writings, but just because it was practiced by David and accepted at the time doesn’t mean it was a command.

  46. Joey,

    Here is a post from Clint Howard, a gospel preacher who posts here sometimes about instruments in the OT:

    Regarding your comments about worship in the OT being/not being mandated…

    Numbers 10:1-2 specified that two silver trumpets be made specifically for musical worship…only priests could blow them (10:8)…and they were to be used at specific times (10:10) These were the only instruments used in worship in tabernacle worship.

    Then, as God is preparing the people for a fixed place of worship at the temple, David introduces new instruments and regulations beginning in 1Chron. 16:1-6, and mentioned again in 23:5. In 23 David specifically says that he made these new instruments for praise to God. Also, notice that specific people were appointed to play these instruments.

    We don’t find out why David introduced these instruments and regulations until 2Chron 29:25-27. Here we are told that David’s introductions agreed with commands from Gad the king’s seer, and Nathan the prophet…and that all three were simply giving commands “from the Lord through His prophets.” Verse 27 tells us that they used the trumpets (the silver ones) and David’s instruments…only those prescribed by God.

    David specifically says in 1Chron 28:19, as he is delivering the plans for the temple and its service and worship to Solomon, that all of the plans (which would include the instruments and their use) were given to him by the Lord. In other words, David didn’t introduce these new instruments and singers and worship elements…God introduced them through David, a prophet.

    In the following years, whenever the people of Israel wanted to reestablish proper temple worship after a captivity or temple destruction or other interruption in proper temple activity, they always appealed to David’s instructions. Why? Because they know his instructions were God’s instructions. [see sections like 2Chron 8:14; 23:18; Ezra 3:10; Neh 12:24-46]

    Clearly instrumental music was not only mandated by the Law, but completely regulated, just like other elements of worship.

  47. For Corey
    just so you know Corey
    I have proof that one preacher in this ara will preach for any denom in town while he lays with the sister of one of my friends
    another preacher in town is teaching that Act 5 is proof you have tithe or die and he is trying to get $1000 from each member to build TD Jakes here in VA
    I taped him 7 days after surgery instead of staying in the bed as the doctor advised. I have the goods on him and it can be called Dateline or whatever but to those ho are under his rule it is “blessed” and you are not doing anything but rying to weaken us. You cant though!
    We see Jesus and he was full of ZEAL for His Father’s house and it ate him up
    you guys just fire me upppp more
    thanks

  48. Corey,

    I’m sorry, but I’m not going to pretend that I don’t oppose what you said about instruments. I thought you would come out firm on it. I was wrong.

    Joey

  49. Thanks Nathan
    keep your TV on.
    Any thing that you see on TV news that we are doing is a direct result of the fire that comes from wanting to demonstrate the difference between us and do nothing Corey.

    Corey , baptist families are in an uproar aftr the baptism on sunday her

    also the 70 year old Apostolic that learned her doctrine was hell sent is shaking her family up too. She obeyed Sunday

    thank you Corey

    I also finalized the Nation of Islam debate yesterday because of the great readings I found in the url above. The way the Baptist stamped out COE in 1700s was like honey to the weary 1Sam 14:27

  50. btw
    to clint
    is worship in Numbers
    did you get confused about trumpets to call the people to worship?

  51. I guess ringing a bell at the church building before assembly would be worship with instruments.

  52. do you know how to tell when worship starts
    1.climbing the mt ? Gen 22:5
    2. ring the bell 1cor 14:8
    3.start worship after that and be clear the bell is not worship
    worship starts and stops

  53. Joey wrote:
    I’m sorry, but I’m not going to pretend that I don’t oppose what you said about instruments. I thought you would come out firm on it. I was wrong.

    If you want me to say that they should not be used in worship I will. If you want me to say that they almost certainly are sinful, I will. If you want me to say they definitely are sinful, I cannot. I refuse to go beyond the word and pronounce something as sinful that isn’t addressed. I’m sorry if that isn’t good enough.

    I noticed that you & Johnny addressed Leviticus and Numbers but haven’t addressed the rest of the post. Why not? I will concede that those examples are a call to worship, not necessarily worship, but they were specifically commanded.

  54. Johnny,

    Why are you calling out Corey? He has done nothing but intelligently defend his faith in the Church of Christ. I might disagree with what he is saying, but at least you can understand him and he is polite.

    You on the other hand, are different story.
    Are you trying to win people over by condemnation and jibber jabber?
    Please, take a deep breath and attempt to express your thoughts in a semi-rational manner.

  55. Johnny, do you EVER just preach the beautiful and simple message of Jesus? I don’t even hear or see Jesus in most of your messages-just an evil agenda.

    What is your real purpose? I have asked this of you and others before and have never gotten a clear answer, and I hope you have one-because God asks you to.

    What is it? To preach Jesus or to condemn, debate, slander and belittle all of those who do not agree with you?

  56. Can everyone NOT see what this is doing? Don’t you understand what this does to the body of Christ??!! It only divides and sows more discord than most of what these guys condemn others for doing.

    It is sad-it is wrong. God hates and satan loves it.

    Why can we not focus on the one who saves-Jesus? Why do we have to continue to devour each other? I absolutely hate it.

    “If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.” ~Galatians 5:15

  57. 150,000 converted in 15 years Kath
    on horseback no less
    the presbyterians were impressed arent you
    no you are a turn coat

  58. huh kathy are you really with us the real christians who cannot abide false doctrine 2Jn 9-11

  59. what keeps us going in all this?
    the conversions in the clear day light from our out front confrontation fo evil denoms
    people are obeying the truth and we cannot get enough

  60. Corey you will get much more out your Christian walk if you will go out and teach a baptist he is drinking false doctrine than trying to answer us.
    there are only 5 of you on here

  61. ok i have had my punch for the month
    bye
    man I must go out and help the lost lest these evil doers get the upper hand.
    Dear God thank you for the success we see. Help us start this new work in Madison.
    thank you for mitch from the bapticostal background he has been a drink of water to our soul.
    and young men like Joey who will take our place when we are there

  62. “Can everyone NOT see what this is doing? Don’t you understand what this does to the body of Christ??!! It only divides and sows more discord than most of what these guys condemn others for doing.”

    And you, Katherine, are helping to resolve it I suppose? By what, preaching the “beatiful simple message of Jesus” and ignoring the hypocracy and doctrine that separates everyone.

    Joey

  63. Katherine asked:

    “Johnny, do you EVER just preach the beautiful and simple message of Jesus? I don’t even hear or see Jesus in most of your messages-just an evil agenda.

    What is your real purpose? I have asked this of you and others before and have never gotten a clear answer, and I hope you have one-because God asks you to.

    What is it? To preach Jesus or to condemn, debate, slander and belittle all of those who do not agree with you?”

    Johnny’s jibberish non-answer:

    “btw kathrine is not in the true church of Christ
    ask her where she goes”

    150,000 converted in 15 years Kath
    on horseback no less
    the presbyterians were impressed arent you
    no you are a turn coat”

    “huh kathy are you really with us the real christians who cannot abide false doctrine 2Jn 9-11”

    Good job, Johnny-you just proved my point. You don’t preach Jesus. Your agenda is evil-it is not from God, not matter how you choose to TRY and justify it.

    You don’t even make sense, and you have been greatly misled and are misleading others in the process. You have missed the message of Jesus, and only preach one of hate and condemnation. It is sad and makes me angry. I cannot even imagine how it makes God feel.

    I HATE to think how much damage you have done for the cause of Christ, but I know that God is a sovereign God and He will still be glorified-even in the middle of this mess. I continue to place my trust and faith in His loving hands knowing He is in control and will take care of this. God has already won the victory, and praise Him for that!!

  64. “And you, Katherine, are helping to resolve it I suppose? By what, preaching the “beatiful simple message of Jesus” and ignoring the hypocracy and doctrine that separates everyone.”

    Joey

    I am sorry, Joey, that you are another one who cannot see what you are doing and will justify Johnny’s actions. You have been misled and lied to, and I hate that-so much that you, too have missed the beautiful, simple message of Jesus.

    If I were to ignore the hypocrisy and doctrines, I would never have spoken on here-but I hate it, so I do speak out against it because I KNOW this behavior is not from Christ-no matter HOW much you want it to be or how much you try to justify it-it is just not there.

    I can see satan’s hand so much in all of this, it hurts-and I wish you could see that, too…but you are only seeing what you want to, and only you can be the one to change that. I pray God will reveal His real message of love to you and that you will realize what you are under is not it.

  65. Joey

    yes I would say that YES, the beautiful simple message of Jesus would resolve a heck of a lot of the worlds problems.

    Duh.

  66. I probably agree with you more than you realize. You just don’t like for me to tell you that what we DISagree on determines your destiny.

    Joey

  67. Well lucky for me that my destiny is already secure and not dependent on what I do or do not like about what you do or do not say.

  68. I would love to respond to Johnny’s comments, but honestly I have no idea what he just said.

    Can anybody verify that this is actually the guy from the t.v. show?

  69. On May 27, 2008 at 2:17 pm Johnny Said:
    I wish we could get these babies on TV
    the very thought that they can answer us?

    Johnny, you can make your points here if you can drop the attitude and name calling. Just as DMH stated, “what are you tryn to say” can you stay on one toic or is this a way to avoid the topics. You not only condmen those you say are in denominations, but you even kick asided your very own. BTW, just because you see 5 people making comments, doesnt mean this isnt being read by more. Nathan had 800 hits in one day…and that wasnt jut from 5 people. We also get emails from “behind the walls”…ps…where is Jason? 🙂

  70. Kat said: Good job, Johnny-you just proved my point. You don’t preach Jesus. Your agenda is evil-it is not from God, not matter how you choose to TRY and justify it.

    You don’t even make sense, and you have been greatly misled and are misleading others in the process. You have missed the message of Jesus, and only preach one of hate and condemnation

    -I have heard Johnny preach Jesus at Martinsville and I must say he does a great job and goes more into depth than most people, but the sad truth is, it doesnt come accross on TV nor on here.

  71. On May 27, 2008 at 2:39 pm Johnny Said:
    Joey I appreciate you trying to help these guys.

    Yes, please do help all of us unlearned, seeing you guys have mastered the bible to a degree nobody else has…its either we see scripture as you, or we all are doomed…seeing you guys have perfect knowledge…better yet – puffed up knowledge

  72. “Can anybody verify that this is actually the guy from the t.v. show?”

    -Yes, it’s Johnny. I know his wrtting quite well. Plus his IP address on my blog tracked back to him.

  73. On May 27, 2008 at 2:50 pm Joey Said:
    And you, Katherine, are helping to resolve it I suppose? By what, preaching the “beatiful simple message of Jesus” and ignoring the hypocracy and doctrine that separates everyone.

    Is it doctrine that seperates us Joey, or is it doctrinal views. What seperates us in not doctrine, but us not agreeing upon each others views. You say you are right regarding things you “understand” the bible to say, I say the same thing. You think youre supposed view is right, so do I. I know what you will say here “the bible is right” sure, I agree. But the facts are we both “understand” some things -not the same. You will have me going to hell for seeing Acts 20:7 different from you, but I can not be so bold to play God with you because you fail to understand the verse as I.

  74. On May 27, 2008 at 2:50 pm Johnny Said:
    ok i have had my punch for the month
    bye
    man I must go out and help the lost lest these evil doers get the upper hand.
    Dear God thank you for the success we see. Help us start this new work in Madison.
    thank you for mitch from the bapticostal background he has been a drink of water to our soul.
    and young men like Joey who will take our place when we are there

    Johnny, was this a real prayer, or you just throwing some bait to Joey and Mitch in hope they bite…

    Joey, you have talked with Jason, I know what you guys have talked about and you down deep know better than to keep following after a man who pushes hate. I hope you never act as Johnny. Jason sure regrets the way he acted and treated people. Ask yourself how could Jason regret that if if wasnt wrong. I know you have seen things and just like Jason, you sweep it under the rug…

  75. Typical.

    Corey – now you see even more clearly the kind of thing we have to put up with in our community. Sorry you were on the business end of that hissy fit.

    Rereading JR’s comments, I agree with DMH, they are an exact blog representation of what Paul talks about in 1 Corinthians 13:1: “If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.”

    Let’s get back to our adult discussion, and not worry about the clanging cymbals. They are “…full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”

  76. Joey, you have talked with Jason, I know what you guys have talked about and you down deep know better than to keep following after a man who pushes hate

    Nathan, you and Randy keep saying that and I haven’t the foggiest idea what you are talking about. You both say that as if you were a third party to conversations I had with Jason. Since you are so enlightened, please remind me of my conversation.

    Joey

  77. Excuse me, Joey, but when did I say anything of the kind? I haven’t even talked about Jason since February – and that wasn’t to you. Randy has been calling you guys to task pretty consistently because he’s close to the situation, being friends with Jason and having been associated with the group with whom you associate.

    The last thing I could find that I posted was this:

    “C’mon, Johnny! You owe the community the truth about what happened between you and Jason. Or did nothing happen between the two of you? We just don’t know for certain because you won’t say. And before you claim it’s a private matter or nobody’s business, once more I’ll say that it IS, because Jason was coming into our living rooms each week teaching your doctrine, and we deserve to know why he stopped.”

    I still stand behind that statement, but it was directed towards JR.

  78. Nathan,

    Oops. My apologies. I misread the name. Randy’s alias is similar to yours and I read too quickly.

    But to clarify:
    “Randy has been calling you guys to task pretty consistently because he’s close to the situation, being friends with Jason and having been associated with the group with whom you associate.”

    Calling to task? – Thats funny. Randy hasn’t been close to any situation. He assumes he has an inside line and I have no idea where he comes up with some of this stuff.

    Joey

  79. Joey. why do you insist on hiding what you know to be true. Did Gene and others leave too? Did you guys have a mens meeting over Jason> Did Jason as that he speak before the entire assembly on the issue and was turned down? I know much more too and you will not pull anything out of me by pretending like I dont know. Btm, line, I have talked to Jason many times, how else would I even know he had talked to you about Johnny and I have to others who are still there right now…trust me Joey, Jason wansy and isnt the only person who is turned off by the tactics of JR. Anyways, ley get back to the issue of the bible and forget Johnny, because he surely has you hook, line and sinker…so nuff bout him

  80. Oh. I thought you were talking about something different. That’s the same old thing you keep saying.

  81. what else would I be talkn bout Joey? I know there is more as you know…anyways nuff bout this. Im not anti-Johnny believe it or not. I may come accross that way, but honestly, I have a lot of respect for Johnny, but I still have my own convictions on passages that I understand differ. And its ther where we go our seperate ways. You guys see certain scriptures to teach one thing and others see them to teach others things – you say you are right, regarding what the bible says, and so do others…but what is sad is you will condemn me to hell for holdng views differ from your, or for my supposed lack of understanding, and its sad you guys ( speaking of the cofC preachers here ) treat others with so much hate. Jason regrets the way he treated people…that alone speaks for itself.

  82. I’m not going to answer reviling with reviling, but I am going to address some things here. I apologize ahead of time for my lengthy post.

    Johnny wrote:
    Corey , baptist families are in an uproar aftr the baptism on sunday her

    also the 70 year old Apostolic that learned her doctrine was hell sent is shaking her family up too. She obeyed Sunday

    thank you Corey

    I also finalized the Nation of Islam debate yesterday because of the great readings I found in the url above. The way the Baptist stamped out COE in 1700s was like honey to the weary 1Sam 14:27
    I don’t know what this has to do with me, but congratulations on converting those people to the truth. I hope you are able to expose the evils of Islam in your debate.

    Johnny wrote:
    Corey you will get much more out your Christian walk if you will go out and teach a baptist he is drinking false doctrine than trying to answer us.
    That is exactly what I do. I try to do it with my Baptist friends. They disagree with me, but I hope that through patience, kindness and sticking only to the word of God I may win them over. It is also what I’ve tried to do here. Among the topics that I’ve tried to explain here are the necessity of baptism prior to salvation, the error of original sin, and I’ve plead with people to stop using instruments in worship to God. I will continue to do so, but always with meekness and kindness.

    Johnny wrote:
    these Baptist spoke out about Congregationalist Episcopals etc and brought the false religion down
    They attacked it with vigor and fervor and priase their men of old.

    Then Alexander Campbell came out of these very ranks and turned their false system on its ear
    see History of Presbytrians pg 215

    Good for them and good for Campbell. Good for everyone that is able to expose error but does so in a kind manner when speaking to those who are honest and sincere.

    Joey wrote:
    Nowhere is the playing of an instrument ever commanded. Not Old or New Testament.
    You can say that the trumpets in Leviticus and Numbers were not actually used as part of worship and I will agree. But your original statement, which I just quoted, is not true. Trumpets are musical instruments and they were commanded by God. I would again point you to the rest of Clint’s post that shows that musical instruments were at one time commanded for use. I would agree with you that they are not for worship for Christians, but they were commanded at one time.

    Joey wrote:
    Yes they are inspired writings, but just because it was practiced by David and accepted at the time doesn’t mean it was a command.

    If David was inspired, then his words were the breath of God. If those words were God’s breath, then they were his commands, not just David’s. I think Clint’s post shows this to be true.

    Nathan wrote:
    Corey – now you see even more clearly the kind of thing we have to put up with in our community. Sorry you were on the business end of that hissy fit.

    Jesus said:
    ” By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” John 13:35

  83. Corey, I wish so bad the guys here would act as you do. I know you agree with much of the doctrine, if not all that these guys here teach – you just present it with love and that makes a world of difference. Btw, Johnny emailed about a weeek ago, stating you are a closet liberal, so maybe he can come on here and explain why he thinks this of you.

  84. “Randy has been calling you guys to task pretty consistently because he’s close to the situation, being friends with Jason and having been associated with the group with whom you associate.”

    Calling to task? – Thats funny. Randy hasn’t been close to any situation. He assumes he has an inside line and I have no idea where he comes up with some of this stuff”

    -I guess I am just good at guessing these things…lol. Come on Joey, come clean, you know the truth. You guys get into everyones business on air, but then act as if we shouldnt do the same here. Least we arent calling you guys names, like “lil girls” “babies” ” lil boys” “cowards” “drunks”…and things. Let me take that back, you seem to be not like Johnny in this reagard, I mean leaste we arent actings like Johnny…” By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” John 13:35

  85. Randy wrote:
    Btw, Johnny emailed about a weeek ago, stating you are a closet liberal, so maybe he can come on here and explain why he thinks this of you.

    That is funny to me. At my congregation I’m probably viewed as a strict conservative.

    If I’m viewed as a liberal by some it is probably because of what I’ve said here about IM. The funny thing is that I actually teach that it is best that Christians not only don’t have instrumental music in worship, but that it shouldn’t be listened to outside of worship. You know this, you’ve read my blog post about it. The only thing is that I’m not willing to go beyond God’s word and pronounce with certainty things as sin that God has not pronounced as sin. I teach the same thing, but in a different way.

    I’m sure there are other areas if someone wanted to go into every issue (and I’m sure some would like to), but on the whole I’m about as conservative as they come. I know this – the only areas in which I might be painted a “liberal” are the areas that the scriptures don’t specifically address. I will always follow the Biblical pattern and principles, but I will not sit on God’s throne and pronounce judgment where He has not. I am content to leave those things to Him.

  86. Actually randy all the names you mentioned are used in scripture by the Lord or one of his. So take it up with him!

  87. You are going to have a LOT to take up with the Lord one day, Johnny. You cannot get away with this behavior forever-no matter how badly you want to justify it and THINK you could actually be acting like Christ-it is just not the truth.

    Eventually, the light reveals the darkness.

  88. Also Randy, I think the Devil wishes we would act like Corey so the church of Christ would go ahead and become a denomination.
    We have been hearing the Devil’s message out of our antagonist mouth for 10 years, here is how it sounds
    “tone it down”
    “don’t attack the churches”
    “be kind to the false teacher”
    “you seem so unloving”
    but we just keep listening to God’s messengers

    here they are
    “Ac 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,
    10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?”

    Ac 23:2 And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to smite him on the mouth.
    3 Then said Paul unto him, “God shall smite thee, thou whited wall:” for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law?

    this whited wall is a quote from the master!

    Mt 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.
    28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
    29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

    Matt 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within YE ARE FULL OF HYPOCRISY AND INIQUITY

    who should we act like? Corey?

    Here is Corey
    it BEST if you do this ….

    I heard Larry West say that 20 years ago Corey. Why don’t you tell us the last time you were at Tulsa?

    You guys just dont get it.
    Randy doesn’t even attend anywhere.
    Let us set him up as the great balancer
    Go Corey! You are right in there with the Devil’s folk, helping a Presbyterian Nathan.
    I am sure the Lord is realllllllll happy with your gentle (cowardly) spirit

  89. This is Johnny Robertson …
    Katie How Did You Know To Come Over To Your Dad’s House Just In Time To See Me ?

    Was Your Husband __________________________?

  90. Johnny…

    Let me fill you in on some things:

    1) You are already in a denomination-you have made yourself worse than those who so defiantly condemn.

    2) You might want to actually listen to those so called “anatagonists”-they are actually speaking the truth of God.

    3) You should REALLY pay attention the verses you quoted because they apply directly to YOU.

    Corey has shown a gentle and humble spirit like Christ-you have NOT whatsoever (on here) shown that ANY of your fruits are from Christ.

    You are so blinded by this that you cannot even see that everything you are “accusing” others of you are actually doing yourself-and 10 times worse!!! You condemn your own self-how is that for irony.

    Why do you continue to do this? How can this be doing ANY good for the kingdom of God? Why is your goal not to be Jesus to others, instead of attacking and belittling? God is not pleased with this behavior-I don’t care how you try and justify it. You have created monsters to do your bidding, and it is terrible. You are supposed to be loving your neighbor, not attacking your brothers and sisters in Christ b/c they do not agree with everything YOU believe or take on all of your stances. How in the WORLD is that Biblical? Here, let me help you-it is NOT.

    “Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.” ~Ephesians 4:2-3

  91. Kathrine said

    Johnny, do you EVER just preach the beautiful and simple message of Jesus? I don’t even hear or see Jesus in most of your messages-just an evil agenda.

    John said Jesus said,
    Joh 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
    23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

    take it up with the author K !

  92. K said
    Why do you continue to do this? How can this be doing ANY good for the kingdom of God?

    I believe the Devil would say the same thing because we are extending the Kingdom inot his territory.
    We have 4 boradcast now K! 4 hours a week prime time girl.
    We have 4 preachers in an area that previously had 1 K!
    We have planted congregations in 3 new towns K!
    Our tent goes up in June K!
    We debate the muslims in July K!
    We gave 15,000.00 worth of free dvds last tent K!

    Do yu want me to stop yet K?
    The Devil does!

  93. Johnny said earlier

    This is Johnny Robertson …
    Katie How Did You Know To Come Over To Your Dad’s House Just In Time To See Me ?

    Was Your Husband __________________________?

    I sent randy the “fill in the blank” so he can help us with it later. Are you curious, what it is?
    I bet you all get it wrong!

  94. You just don’t get it, do you? You preach another message, and it is not from God.

    You are doing a lot of good for satan, unfortunately you cannot see that-you attack, divide, fight, and cause more damage than you will ever know. It is sad indeed.

    You take it up with the Author-because He never instructed you to act like this.

  95. Ok time to work on the newest version of WDTBS for prime time call in tonite!
    False religions get ready Jesus word’s are not bound on this broadcast!
    2Ti 2:9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

  96. You really need to think about changing your broadcast to WDJS, and no that J does not stand for Jesus but Johnny…”What Does Johnny Say”

    “For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.” ~1 Corinthians 1:17

  97. On May 2, 2008 at 9:02 am Johnny Robertson Said:
    Here is my last post for you guys

    and he also said in the same post:
    Dont bother responding ya’ll Im not coming back it is toooo dark in here for me

    So here’s a verse for you Johnny:

    Revelation 21:8
    But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death

    Forgive me if I don’t feel ashamed when a proven liar tries to rebuke me.

  98. johnny said”

    “K
    did you scream that last message?”

    I sure wanted to-would you actually listen or hear it any better if I did?

    You really should pay attention-the truth is being spoken to you.

  99. oh waht about you and tulsa and Larry West
    and Kathrine just made a Baptist argument

    you didnt want to respond to
    Nathan is presbyterain and you are on his side against us
    Randy doesnt attend any church and you are helping him
    Kathrien is right in with ACU are U

  100. let me give you all a little test?

    I have over 100 Debates in my office. Were all those denoms sinners and hurting the cause when they agreed?

    If no?
    Why would it hurt the cause to debate today?

    Well we are ready to show the truth!
    But alas the spirit of Jude 3 does not reside in the weakened sate fo denoms since we had all those debates of old.

    get it Corey?

  101. From Johnny: Randy doesn’t even attend anywhere.

    From Randy: Your worng Johnny ! And I know this set up is to ask me “where I attend”, then when I dont tell you, you will ask if I ashamed.

    Johnny, how can Corey be liberal as you wrote me, whne you guys believe the same things. It seems of one doesnt act hateful and mean, then to you, they are liberal.

    On May 28, 2008 at 11:01 am johnny Said:
    Johnny said earlier

    This is Johnny Robertson …
    Katie How Did You Know To Come Over To Your Dad’s House Just In Time To See Me ?

    Was Your Husband __________________________?

    I sent randy the “fill in the blank” so he can help us with it later. Are you curious, what it is?
    I bet you all get it wrong!

    – go ahead Johnny, enlighten us !

  102. I’m here Johnny

    Would you like to say about my husband, please I’d love to know what your “blank” is. I have a few blanks of my own to say about you.

    And for the record, my mother called me to let me know that Johnny Robertson was in the driveway speaking to my father and because my children were spending the day with my parents, I felt it was my motherly right to come and take my children out of a potentially harmful situation… ie… being in your presence. And that’s the honest truth of the matter.

    But don’t worry, I know you were a little nervous that I might show up. Next time why don’t you come and visit me at the congregation where I serve and attend. We’d have a nice little welcome party for you.

  103. here is a taste of WDTBS tonite
    M M Carroll wrote
    4. THE RED CIRCLES REPRESENT BAPTIST CHURCHES beginning with the first Church at Jerusalem, founded by Christ during His earthly ministry, and out of which came the churches of Judea, Antioch and others. The red indicates they were persecuted. In spite of the bitterest opposition and persecution Baptist Churches are found in every age. The first nickname given them was Christians, the next Ana-Baptists, and so on.

    Now shouldnt he be reprimanded for saying that the Baptist were first nick named Chrisitan?

    Does he get a pass on that lie?
    Can he prove it?
    Isn’t the Devil happy if we leave it lie?

    No Baptist church in the NT

    Corey wouldn’t your time be beter suited informing 17 mill Baptist than over here trying to slow down our exposure of the error they spew.

    Oh but we are unloving.
    Well they are false.
    Should you do like Paul said

    Php 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
    16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
    17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
    18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

    you seem to be more upset with our manner than the falseness of Bptist

    when is the last time you publicly came out against the great error of Baptist ONCE saved always saved?

    you would get fired if you did it and named the Baptist who preach it.
    We all know you Corey

  104. KAtie said

    But don’t worry, I know you were a little nervous that I might show up. Next time why don’t you come and visit me at the congregation where I serve and attend. We’d have a nice little welcome party for you.

    Here is our cordial response to Katie
    You are cordially invited to bring your preacher and we will allow him to be in our pulpit for one hour to preach the position he believes is true.

    Love Johnny Robertson

    Will you give us the same?

    We will supply DVDs for all who are here free of charge.

    Thank you so much Katie for showing us how it is at your church

  105. Johnny somewhat said:

    “oh waht about you and tulsa and Larry West
    and Kathrine just made a Baptist argument

    you didnt want to respond to
    Nathan is presbyterain and you are on his side against us
    Randy doesnt attend any church and you are helping him
    Kathrien is right in with ACU are U”

    WHAT in the world are you talking about? This looks like a bunch of childish jibberish to me!

    I made a “Baptist argument”? Care to elaborate?

    By the way, my name is KATHERINE. You might want to check over your posts before you actually push the button-because most of them are just ranting and raving about who knows what.

    You are so wrapped up in this craziness you don’t even know what you are doing.

    Preach Jesus, Johnny-not your agenda. It is as simple as that.

  106. I haven’t shown you how anything is at my church. I invited you to join us, that is exactly what I did.

    Now what is it that you have to say about my family?? Or are you avoiding that question?

  107. oh and Katie thanks for the help on my broadcast tonite in Martinsville.
    I will paste your statement in with the daughter of the apostolic preacher kellum who said
    “I will bust you head wide open till the white meat comes out”!

  108. Johnny wrote:
    thanks Corey
    Joey lightened up the place
    so I came in again

    You still said that was your last post. Nice try, but you’re still a liar.

    You wrote:
    Nathan is presbyterain and you are on his side against us
    Randy doesnt attend any church and you are helping him
    Kathrien is right in with ACU are U

    #1. I have opposed every unscriptural doctrine Nathan has posted. From baptism’s role to instrumental music. You can ask him if that is true, or you could just read.
    #2. Randy and I often disagree here as well. We’ve never had a discussion about where or how often he attends. I don’t know how I’m “helping” him
    #3. ACU can hardly be called a Christian university any longer. They are headed toward denominationalism from all that I’ve read, so I am not in with them. In fact, I disagree with many of the things Katherine has posted here. Again, feel free to ask her or read it.

    You wrote:
    Why would it hurt the cause to debate today?
    It would hurt nothing. You did a great job against the Phelps family. Too bad you can’t show me the same respect you showed those despicable people.

    I would reply to the other things you posted but they make no sense. You can proof-read things before you hit “submit comment”. It might help things out if you would.

  109. let randy fill in the blank I emailed it to him

    why do you think I said anything about you all?
    do you evil surmise just because there is a blank?

  110. Unbelievable, Johnny-UNBELIEVABLE. Corey believes with that majority of your doctrine-but because he will not act like you, attacking, condemning and belittling everyone-you can’t even call him a brother.

    I will say it again: UNBELIEVABLE!!!

    He is actually trying to be like Christ-you could learn a lot from him, but you just want to stay on the attack. You know why?!! Because you don’t just preach Christ-you preach your own, selfish agenda. There is not an ounce of the love and grace of God found in your message.

    Quit trying to bring him to the dark side. He sees your evil fruits and so does God. Come out into the light!

  111. what statement will you paste? I have said nothing incriminating.

    I invited you to join me at the church where I serve and worship. Do you not like to be invited to church?

  112. katie said

    I haven’t shown you how anything is at my church. I invited you to join us, that is exactly what I did.

    so I can am actually invited?
    what is waiting for me? please be clear so all here will know if I am supposed to get to ask questions??? or what

  113. I will say this Johnny.
    I do not know you personally and you may be a decent human being.

    But from what I know of you from TV and on this blog, you are far from a decent man. So I do not trust you or your words or your “fill in the blanks”. And you have created that mistrust for yourself. Perhaps if you were more guarded in how you responded to people and offered respect and (SHOCK) kindness… people would have more trust in your ability to be remotely Christ-like in your actions and words.

  114. corey
    are we in enlish class or is this forum chat? if every thing has to be so exact for you why dont you get off here and e me

  115. Nathan is presbyterain and you are on his side against us
    Randy doesnt attend any church and you are helping him
    Kathrien is right in with ACU are U”

    Johnny, honestly you have no idea where I attend, its near Fairystone, I will tel you that much. Far as Nathan, you dont even know him, neither do I. And Kat is within the cofC as you.

  116. I invited you to my church.
    You are welcome to come and attend a worship service and your are welcome to ask the pastor or myself any questions at the end of a service.
    In our church we don’t have an open question and answer time but our pastor is a very kind and personable individual who at the end of service is there to answer questions. If you come with the intentions of disrupt and be rude, then you will be met with the same response. If you come with the intentions of being civil and respectful in the midst of your questions, then you will be treated the same.

  117. When was the last time I came out against once saved always saved? This month when I preached against it. I also posted it on my blog for the whole world to see. I wrote:
    Grace is not necessarily permanent. Let us look at Galatians 5:4:

    You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace

    Relying on something other than Christ – be it the old law, the teachings of men, or our own thoughts and desires – can cause us to fall from grace. Look at Romans 6:1-2:

    1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

    Is grace going to cover us if we keep on willfully sinning? Many translations say “God forbid it!” We’re supposed to be dead to sin. If we continue to wallow in it, we shouldn’t expect grace to cover our evils. The strongest language showing us that grace is not permanent may be found in Hebrews 6:4-6:

    4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

    If we have tasted of God’s grace and we renounce Him and go back into the world, we are worse off than before we ever became a Christian. The Hebrew writer tells us that we might as well pick up the hammer and nails again and nail Jesus to the cross again because we are crucifying Him all over again. Remember what eventually happened to the slave in the parable we first looked at? When he failed to show mercy to another slave the master rescinded his grace and turned the slave over to be punished without mercy.

    Despite what some may say, the Bible teaches that grace is not unconditional, it is not something you can earn, and it isn’t necessarily permanent.

    So:
    #1. I won’t get fired because I’m not a full time preacher.
    #2. You don’t know me.
    #3. I have no problem calling out denominations and their false doctrines. I’ve done it plenty here and I’ll continue to do so. Just because I won’t behave like you doesn’t mean that I don’t stand for the truth.

  118. johnny,

    We are not in English class, but it would help if you proofread your stuff. If you really were trying to get your message across-you might try making some sense, because for now it is just childish jibberish that is incredibly hard to take seriously.

  119. katie
    you are the Devil to me. I don’t need to give you kindness.
    you are just like the people Jesus called snakes and hypoc… and I dont know why you think you deserve otherwise
    you all want to fight physically
    I won’t to discuss with your dad on air to let th communty see his position will not hold up
    he has plenty of proof that it is not sinful
    He knows AC Smith personally and he did not say AC sinned by being on with me

    why not come on.
    clear up the biggg blunder AC made

    1000s of verses that say faith only?

  120. ok corey , you cant deal with the arguments so lets go to
    “oh he is hard to understand”

    move on sonny
    answer some of the questins

  121. I will say Johnny that if you aim to come to my church and publically harass me, my family, or anyone else for that matter, that you would be asked to leave.

    As I said, I don’t trust you or your intentions at this point.

    But if you have something to say about me or my family, I would surely expect you to be man enough to say it to my face instead of cowering on the internet and bringing my family in your jibber jabber posts.

    So… what is that you have to say about my husband?

  122. I also find it laughable that you would say “I don’t need to give you kindness”

    Thank you proving to me that you do know not know Jesus Christ. Because according to Galatians, one of the fruits of the spirit is kindness. Thank you for FINALLY admitting to everyone on this board that you have never met the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It’s about time you came clean… now get saved Johnny.

  123. so this blog is really about style

    randy or nathan or katie
    what do you think of spurgun then

    i am no worse than this “great champ”

    or Luther who posted all his arguments on the door for all to read

  124. “Katie…you are the devil to me. I don’t need to give you kindness”

    WOW. Well, there you go. Now we know where he stands.

    Your fruits have been shown and proven to be evil, Johnny Robertson-but I would never call you the devil. You must have skipped over the part where God told you to “love you enemies” or be kind to everyone, or be humble and gentle, or a million other verses that tells us to act like Jesus!

  125. Apparently Johnny has never met Jesus, which answers a lot of lingering questions for me. Doesn’t it do the same for you Katherine?

  126. Corey I do admire your courage here. I’ve been reading here and you have stood firm and have not allowed Johnny and co. to intimidate you.

    While I was reading the discussion here it occurred to me that we have a new definition of liberal now. From this discussion, you are considered a dreaded liberal if you refuse to play God and go beyond what God has said. Ummm, I don’t know about you, but I think I like being called a liberal.

  127. This is Johnny Robertson …
    Katie How Did You Know To Come Over To Your Dad’s House Just In Time To See Me ?

    Was Your Husband ____________MAD______________?

    I sent randy the “fill in the blank” so he can help us with it later. Are you curious, what it is?
    I bet you all get it wrong!

  128. Gail said “From this discussion, you are considered a dreaded liberal if you refuse to play God and go beyond what God has said. Ummm, I don’t know about you, but I think I like being called a liberal.”

    I’m with you sister.

  129. Am I unloving to call you the devil?
    Mt 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not

    did Jesus stop loving Peter?

    I can tell you the truth Katie and you do not have the right to say if I love you are not

    Ga 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

    am I your enemy because I tell you the truth

  130. Was my husband mad??

    My husband doesn’t like you. 🙂
    But he wasn’t mad.

    Annoyed is a better word.

  131. What’s the matter Johnny? Don’t like my answers to your “questins”? Can’t find anything “liberal” in them?

    Why don’t you answer Katie regarding her husband? Are you just throwing out something unfounded to upset her or do you have something to say?

  132. Thks randy

    Katie why did you think danger?

    Has any one every seen or heard of me being violent?
    do you have just one instance?

    or were you worried what your dad might do

  133. Okay, Johnny, I filled in the blank, but have no idea what you mean. Johnny, what would it hurt to be kind and civil and still hold to the truths. Honestly, I just dont see the point. I know you will point out that Jesus acted this way with people, were they people wanting to server him that he lashed out at with names? Katie and Rick doesnt deserve the treatment that Christ gave the people who did not seek him…I know I set this up for you to throw out more scripture and thats fine, but why attcak Katie and call her the devil ?

  134. Katie
    now there are plenty of cases where you denoms have threatened me in public and some have even put hands on me for just pointing a camera
    man those cameras are dangerous weapons

    we have you all pegged

  135. my father is the most patient, kind person you will ever have the honor of having met… so no I would never be worried about what my father might do

    and no I was not worried about physical danger

    I do not want my children in your presence because I feel that you spew words of hate and anger and as a mother I do not want my children to be witness to such behavior.

  136. Corey
    would you correct Randy’s English so I can respond please

    randy said
    Katie and Rick doesnt deserve the treatment that Christ gave the people who did not seek him

  137. Yes, Johnny you are unloving in calling Katie the devil because you are NOT speaking the truth. You haven’t even given a good or logical reason for why you call her that, AND you actually think you can put yourself in the same camp of Jesus?! Ha-think again.

    You are the one who claimed she is your enemy. You can’t handle the real truth so you have to resort to these unfounded attacks. Yep, real Christ-like. FAR FROM IT!

    Besides, if you were really trying to speak the truth, whatever happened to speaking the truth in love?

    “Instead, speaking the truth in LOVE, we will in all things grow up into Him who is the Head, that is, Christ” ~Ephesians 4:15

  138. Thks randy

    Katie why did you think danger?

    Has any one every seen or heard of me being violent?
    do you have just one instance?

    or were you worried what your dad might do

    Guys, I will say that Johnny is not what many think, he is not the violent type ….Johnny, but could it be that actions are words are just as violent

  139. you haven’t got me pegged at al
    you are lumping me together with people who I do not know and throwing me in with situations for which I was not present.

    I have never threatened you with physical harm, nor has my father. So please, the only one that is “pegged” here is yourself.

  140. On May 28, 2008 at 11:55 am johnny Said:
    Corey
    would you correct Randy’s English so I can respond please

    randy said
    Katie and Rick doesnt deserve the treatment that Christ gave the people who did not seek him

    From Randy: lol 🙂 I knew that was coming. I only prrofread things at work, here I just let it go and hope you guys look over the mistakes…

  141. Randy
    why dont you verify this quote from a friend that you seem to know so much about

    I have known plenty of preachers that will take a salary from you but I have never met anyone until you Johnny who will go out at his own expense and get one for another

  142. I don’t believe Johnny is violent, but what I see is pure deception and manipulation-pushing buttons on purpose to get the kind of reaction he can twist and turn to make that person look bad on his TV shows-when in reality he is the instigator.

    Do I have him pegged correctly?

  143. You referred to me as the Devil. That’s quite a bit of hate for one cowboy, don’t ya think?

    and I have seen your program. You are an angry little man and that sort of behavior is unacceptable and my children will not be witness to it.

  144. thanks katie
    did Jesus “cowboy” up when he call peter satan?
    is cowboy meant to mean something?

    or was that actually a complement? thanks in advance

  145. On May 28, 2008 at 11:59 am Katherine Said:
    I don’t believe Johnny is violent, but what I see is pure deception and manipulation-pushing buttons on purpose to get the kind of reaction he can twist and turn to make that person look bad on his TV shows-when in reality he is the instigator.

    Do I have him pegged correctly?

    Honestly Johnny, it seems Katherine is right. Jason even told me you do this and even told him to “provoke” people…so yes, Kat, you seem to have Johnny pegged correctly. If not Johnny, please explain

  146. Jesus never exemplified hate. It had some righteous anger at times but never hate. You are hateful.

    The cowboy means nothing but that you are a cowboy. Don’t read too far into comments, I meant cowboy just as it sounds.

  147. Ok just for the record
    I am invited to come to katies church
    so lets not all get bent out of shape when I show up next sunday katie

    I will have this blog printed out so the preacher can see I am not “busting” in uninvited.

    great

    I will report it all on WDTBS sunday nite at 8:30

  148. So, you didn’t like all my answers, huh? Going to stick with calling me an English teacher? I guess being married to an English teacher, and trying to communicate clearly at all times makes me a bit of a stickler.

    Perhaps you could address my answers now.

  149. Yep-that is real great. Katie invited you to her church, and you call her the devil.

    Do you see why people speak out against you and your behavior? Probably not, though you should.

  150. No need to print it up. My pastor and I work together, and he’ll be well aware of your potential attendance.

    As I said, you are welcome to join. And you are more welcome to answer questions when the service is over and the pastor is available (which he is after every service). And your questions will be received with the same manner which you present them. You will only be asked to leave should you be rude, offensive, or disrespectful. Which makes me laugh a little because I can’t imagine you not being those three things. But I am anxious to see you prove me wrong. I would love to have a decent conversation with you, but your previous actions lead me to believe such a conversation would be impossible.

  151. lol 🙂 I knew this was coming. I dont see anything you have to how people on TV. But, please be so kind to provide the link, so others can read the context of the blog.

  152. Yes, Randy-violence can come in the form of verbal abuse as exemplified here. Look at how many verses in the Bible talk about taming the tongue! Johnny, you might want to take a break from attacking all of those “denominations” and pick up your Bible and do a little study on those verses…

    “With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God’s likeness. Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be. Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring?” ~James 3:9-11

  153. Just logged on… it has taken me a while to catch up.

    Johnny,

    Randy’s got a good point. Why don’t you give out the URL of this blog tonight? You’ve never thanked me for linking to your blog from here. Considering our average daily number of hits, I would guess that I’ve been helping send people your way. It would only be gentlemanly of you to reciprocate.

    Mr. Answer

  154. corey katie used incorrect spelling would you correct it please!
    katie said
    you haven’t got me pegged at al

  155. Katie, Johnny is always armed with a mike and/or cam. You know this right? I dont see the problem with this though…but I would have my own set up too. Then put the clips on here.

  156. Just wondering Johnny
    Should you come for a visit to my church (I assume I don’t need to tell you where I attend because you have already figured that out)… what is it that you intend to accomplish?

    If you already know so much about the Baptist doctrine, what questions do you really have?

    and if you despise Baptists so much, what joy would you find in being a church full of ’em?

  157. oh yeh Randy I know the drill… they video tape/record and then take things out of context… real respectable of them

  158. Johhny, let the viewers know the link/URL and lets see how many others speak out – why hide this behind the walls.

  159. And Johnny just so you know
    in a church that clearly states that no video recording or voice recording devices are allowed… if you choose to do so, you could have your show pulled from the air for illegally taping or video recording.

  160. On May 28, 2008 at 12:13 pm Katie Said:
    oh yeh Randy I know the drill… they video tape/record and then take things out of context… real respectable of them

    seriously, have your own set up and have your questions prepared and know his answers before he answers, because he will have yours…trust me, I know. Once he airs things on TV come back here ( if thats ok with Nathan) and post the clips for the entire context.

  161. katie says
    On May 28, 2008 at 12:15 pm Katie Said:

    And Johnny just so you know
    in a church that clearly states that no video recording or voice recording devices are allowed… if you choose to do so, you could have your show pulled from the air for illegally taping or video recording.

    good try katie I did my law home work a long time ago

    are trying to make sure you get to tell the “hear say” version of the story

  162. What kinds of questions is he honestly going to ask?
    He doesn’t want any answers, he wants to come and make a show of himself.

  163. Johnny,
    Still waiting on your response for the questions I answered…

    Keep evading them. It makes you look very honest and sincere.

  164. believe what you want Johnny, but the FCC is pretty clear on this issue and lucky me, my pastor and I have already had this conversation

  165. ok since we all know this is going to be on tv and as yu all say no one will know what happened
    why not just move the whole thing to the prepaid studio?

    every one can see katies preacher stumble around like it was in 1830 when we took 150,000 from your ranks
    see Prysbyterian history at url provided yesterday

  166. I don’t know about smilies. You can always just do this.. *rolleyes*

    It means the same.

  167. On May 28, 2008 at 12:18 pm Katie Said:
    What kinds of questions is he honestly going to ask?
    He doesn’t want any answers, he wants to come and make a show of himself.

    Johnny, Katie does make a good point, seeing you already know what they believe and you know the answers already, so do explain the REAL purpose behind this. I think you want to confront them and then air it on TV…does make for good ratings dont it, but is that right to do? Maybe you will say to expose them…you tell Katie…cuz she does have a point

  168. corey we will send you a dvd
    I know you will not want to be sinning by taking hear say? one witness!

    randy you could come and then report!

  169. ok lets see

    all the debates of years gone by were point less because the contenders already knew the positions
    good randy

  170. Why don’t you save your DVD and post a response to what I said when I answered your questions.

  171. we all know katie has gotten herself in a fix and she is now trying to get out
    I predict she will withdraw the invitation’

    here it is in advance

    since Johnny already knows everything my preacher knows we respectfully decline to let him ask questions so the community can learn.”

  172. the communty learned from
    K Johnson

    Annanias and S went to heaven because God killed them before they could so sin as to be lost

    Also this is confirmed as B doctrine by Jason H on taped show wher he read Baptist Miss. who wrote that they are now praying for God to kill him before he can do mre damage to Baptist faith in H Co.

    oh we learn from these events

    we would be happy to host yo all katie
    we have nothing to hide

    so corey for the english… you will figure it out later we wil wait on you
    did you bring your wife up?
    Oh Lee help us

  173. I am not declining an invitation.
    Please attend, ask questions. But be prepared to be met with the same attitude that you bring.

  174. You are so warped, Johnny it is not even funny.

    YOU are the one who has gotten in a fix!!

    Maybe if you would ACTUALLY answer what your intentions are, there would not be all this confusion. You have yet to answer what your purpose is-Biblically or otherwise. You and your co-horts have been asked multiple times, and yet no one seems to have an answer. Could it possibly be that you really do have an agenda, you just don’t want to come out and admit it? *gasps*

    Jesus has instructed you to always have an answer, so…do you?!

  175. On May 28, 2008 at 12:15 pm Katie Said:
    And Johnny just so you know
    in a church that clearly states that no video recording or voice recording devices are allowed… if you choose to do so, you could have your show pulled from the air for illegally taping or video recording.

    Katie, You will need this on the door in writting to be legal.

  176. kath said
    Maybe if you would ACTUALLY answer what your intentions are, there would not be all this confusion. You have yet to answer what your purpose is-Biblically or otherwise.

    johnny answers
    Ac 17:17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.

    can you figure this out?

  177. What a joke. You have PLENTY to hide-but God sees.

    There are people in the world who treat people better than you do, and you “claim” to be a follower of Christ and a preacher. WHAT A JOKE. You make a mockery out of Jesus and His cross, and it is sad.

  178. so get this!

    I am going to be sued
    law suit for taping a discussion between me and unknown pastor

    great head line katie

    Baptist church presents lawsuit against diabolical preacher!
    suit is “he brought a camera”

    Natural History Museum all over again!

    the community saw through that one huh randy

  179. from now own if you this
    NTFKC

    it will mean
    no time for kath childish

    instead of “rolls eyes”

  180. On May 28, 2008 at 12:15 pm Katie Said:
    And Johnny just so you know
    in a church that clearly states that no video recording or voice recording devices are allowed… if you choose to do so, you could have your show pulled from the air for illegally taping or video recording.”

    I’m curious why if someone is truly trying to get the gospel out why they would not want to be recorded. Are you SELLING your own recordings or teaching in secret ? I thought the number mark of a cult was teaching in secret?

  181. On May 28, 2008 at 12:26 pm johnny Said:
    ok lets see

    all the debates of years gone by were point less because the contenders already knew the positions
    good randy

    My was for them to be well prepared, because most people do not have a clue what you guys believe – and I will admit, you do well at debates for this cause. I really set you up here to show your heart to wanting to visit Kaite’s church…and it’s clear all you want is a debate.

  182. randy are y u enjoying this?
    you are helping me!

    any way this goes it shows who is willing to come out into the light!

    Katie your preacher could just come on tv?

  183. Johnny wrote:
    “Also this is confirmed as B doctrine by Jason H”

    Johnny,

    Would you like to take this opportunity to clear the air about what happened with Jason H? Again, this question is being asked because up until a few months ago, Jason was on the air preaching with just as much fire in his belly as you, and then he up and disappeared with nary a word. Just a few hems and haws from you three remaining TV stars.

    I think you TV folks owe a good explanation to the community. You can start by explaining here, and we’ll make sure the word gets out.

  184. we teach nothing in secret
    but we also don’t condone your manipulation… everyone on this board knows how you work Johnny. You videotape and then edit the video to suit you agenda and needs.

    If you honestly have questions and are looking for a decent discussion then you will have met your match. Because I am all for that kind of discussion any day of the week. But you want your cameras and such because you are not coming over to honestly seek answers, but to do your best to twist and manipulate.

  185. your right randy
    is that so bad?

    How many times has Ergun Caner Challenged White of the Presbyterians
    am I soooooooo bad

  186. Maybe this is why no recording?

    Ac 19:27 So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth.

    Is your craft in danger Katie?

  187. Johnny wrote:
    “from now own if you this
    NTFKC

    it will mean
    no time for kath childish

    instead of “rolls eyes””

    I do not think this means what you think it means.

  188. 2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
    4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

  189. nope no craft to be in danger but why do you want so badly to videotape… is it because you are afraid you might act like a decent human being or that you might be proven wrong and have no clips to use to manipulate the conversation?

  190. I think a lot of things about you nathan

    like why is your idenity secret

    why would i feel pressure from your little whine?

    let us know who you are

    NTFNC
    N is nathan

  191. It could be that the truth is not in you. The recording would prove what was said and evryone acted

  192. lots of years with baptist telling only half the story taught me to record
    you could have your preacher just come on

    I know Ergun Caner said he would but
    alas the doctrine is weak

  193. LOL
    You couldn’t be FURTHER from the truth Johnny.
    I have nothing to hide but I will not allow my likeness or my words to be taped by you in order that either might be misused or manipulated.

    I am a women of integrity and noble character. Your little threats and accusations mean nothing to me because I have nothing to worry over or be ashamed of. Your camera is a crutch for you, just admit it. You are unable to carry on a decent conversation/discussion with others without it because you are fearful of having the inability to twist and manipulate. If you don’t have the ability to be deceitful then you want no part of it. Interesting.

  194. let me go get the post from presbyterians of old
    they are the ones who tell of 150,000 coming out of baptist & presb

    can you see why all of you are not wanting this to get out

  195. Well when they don’t come it exposes them just as well. I know seeing them not come is one of the things that got my attention as to the fact they were teaching error

  196. Glad to know that you care, JR. Now, let’s see how much you care by your doing the following two things:

    1) Your giving out the URL of this blog on your next broadcast. It would be the gentlemanly thing to do.
    2) Your telling the community what happened with/to Jason H. It would be the honest thing to do.

    NTFNC

    It still doesn’t make sense, by the way.

  197. Oh my word, you are so ridiculous. I bet you are doing all of this just so you can use us in your little rantings and ravings on your TV show.

    Yes, you did answer my question-that you are not preaching Christ only. You are only pushing your agenda.

  198. Johnny wrote:
    so corey for the english… you will figure it out later we wil wait on you

    Why can’t you address my answers? Is it because you’re a proven unrepentant liar who likes to throw out accusations but never back them up?

    Stick with the “English teacher” bit. It suits you well.

  199. Katie
    hello i dont need youuuuuuu
    I want to make sure the preacher is quoted right
    sit down and act like a lady

  200. You are scared of me Johnny… lol
    I understand, if I were you, I’d be nervous about debating me too.

    My preacher would be happy to let me handle the small stuff for him.

  201. ok which is going to be
    i ask for a chance to speak with the preacher and you said ok?
    he works right with you

  202. “alias” is not what my broadcast is about…

    A little more info about what that means, please.

  203. 1Pe 3:5 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

    Maybe the baptist haven’t studied to do this?

  204. actually you said you were going to ask questions
    didn’t address that it must be the pastor
    I offered that my pastor is always open to answer questions but as am I 🙂

  205. no body knows who says what here

    you publish anyone who wants to say a hear say thing about anyone

    Lee?

  206. I discuss doctrine with you any day of any week, any where but I don’t allow you to video tape me or voice record me. Because I don’t trust you.

  207. “faithful” said:

    “Well when they don’t come it exposes them just as well. I know seeing them not come is one of the things that got my attention as to the fact they were teaching error”

    No, “faithful”-they don’t come because they have seen and know full well the deceptive, manipulative tactics displayed by Johnny. They know better not to throw their pearl before swine. Of course you probably will not be able to see this now that you are under the trance of almighty Johnny, but it is the truth.

    They are not scared to come on because of what they believe, but they do not come on because Johnny is not honest in is discussions, and his only purpose in “debating” is to elevate himself and make everyone else look bad.

    Umm…where is the Biblical authority for THAT kind of behavior? NOWHERE!!

  208. katie
    you are not an authority in this church
    I dont want a member

    besides I get enough bad pub….

  209. “faithful” said:

    “1Pe 3:5 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

    Maybe the baptist haven’t studied to do this?”

    Maybe Johnny has not studied this or the majority of the rest of the Bible that instructs us how to treat people with love, humility, and grace. But, he doesn’t preach it-how would he know how to show it?!

  210. Seems to me if there is no trust the best way to stop someone from changing the words is to be on live tv. They would be right there to say ” I didn’t say that”

  211. I’m not the secretary.

    and if you don’t want to discuss with me, that’s fine I understand… like I said, I guess I’d be nervous too if I were you.

  212. You are right that people are free to post here. Why does that make you uncomfortable?

    However, just for your awareness, I don’t allow anyone to post anything. I’ve censored people in the past for saying some pretty disparaging things about you.

    As to Lee, do you deny what he wrote? Please feel free to give your side of that story.

    And while we’re on the subject of giving sides of a story, how about giving the community the story on what happened with Jason H?

  213. Katherine have ever seen Johnny preach? Or are you evil surmising again? You have folks believe that the Lord’s church is denomination

  214. On May 28, 2008 at 12:56 pm Katie Said:

    I discuss doctrine with you any day of any week, any where but I don’t allow you to video tape me or voice record me. Because I don’t trust you.

    fine! no one ask you

    we were discussion you volonteering your pator

    are we backing out now?

  215. So will you join me at my church for a lively discussion Johnny or shall you cower aware from my invitation for fear that you might be discussing with me instead of someone else?

  216. Oh right, “faithful”-Johnny does not give them the chance-he controls the entire thing, cuts people off, is rude to them, and twists their words.

    Why would ANYone want to subject themselves to that??!!

  217. I’m not backing out of anything.
    You are more than welcome to join us in a worship service.
    And you are more than welcome to ask questions following that worship service. My pastor knows of you and your style and I am positive he wants nothing to do with you but I’m the resident debator, so please.. partake of the inivitation or not.

  218. On May 28, 2008 at 1:02 pm Katie Said:

    So will you join me at my church for a lively discussion Johnny or shall you cower aware from my invitation for fear that you might be discussing with me instead of someone else?

    call me whatever katie, but you said your preacher
    I will sho it tonite and also the change that now has taken place

    no I dont want to discuss with you
    you are not the authroity

    i dont feel bad about that either.

    it s easy to see you are tryig to get your pastor off

  219. Katherine you have not seen the debates then . They are timed and equal. If it is one sided it’s for the guest benefit. I’ve seen Johnny give them extra time on more than one occation. You should stick to talking about some thing you know about. I don’t know what that would be but it would still be better for you

  220. Johnny,

    You asked me questions, which I answered. Now you won’t comment on those answers. Why not? Who is the coward now?

  221. “faithful”…

    I am basing it on what I see from his ridiculous TV show, sermons I have heard, and the way he has behaved on here-no evil surmising-just seeing bad fruits he has revealed. When he shows me otherwise, I will be more than happy to believe otherwise-but he has not made any attempt to do so-just continue to back up what I have been saying.

    We can all see it-but you have somehow fallen under his spell and are blinded to it.

  222. I’m the resident debator, so please.. partake of the inivitation or not.

    please
    another mouthy woman

  223. I’m not trying to get my pastor off anything.
    Twist what you like.

    As I said, he knows of you and your style.
    He may or may not entertain your foolishness. No videotaping will be allowed regardless and I intend to be there no matter what. And if he chooses not to engage you, then I’m all for a little excitement and will revel at the opportunity to speak the truth. I’m not ashamed of a thing nor fearful of a thing. Are you?

  224. Johnny said “please
    another mouthy woman”

    I know… isn’t it frustrating when a woman speaks the truth (note the sarcasm)… must infuriate someone as yourself.

  225. Johnny said:

    “faithful

    NTFKC
    means no time for kathrine childish

    use it if you like”

    This still makes absolutely no sense, and my name is KATHERINE.

    Keep avoiding the truth-eventually it will catch up with you.

  226. So Katherine is 4-5 denominational preachers baptized and 4 going on 5 congreagations started in 8 years bad fruit?

  227. ok katie
    just so i can finalize the events on the bradcast tonite
    is your pastor ready as you said
    (i already have all this in sld form)
    or is he not

    throw him up and then rill him back

    how many times have we seen this?

  228. Johnny said “please
    another mouthy woman”

    Katie said:

    “I know… isn’t it frustrating when a woman speaks the truth (note the sarcasm)… must infuriate someone as yourself.”

    Oh, Katie-how I love you!! Keep speaking the truth!! 🙂

  229. Johnny,

    If you are afraid to give out the URL, that’s your business. We get plenty of hits each day without it – averaging about 600 hits a day. Google is our friend. And if you don’t want to give out the real story about Jason, that’s fine. The truth will come out one day.

    However, before you came in and started poking everyone in the sides, we were actually engaging in some pretty good doctrinal discussions. If you are wanting to stick around, then why don’t you join us? Otherwise, it’s clanging cymbal syndrome.

    Meanwhile, I suggest that you and Katie resolve this issue of the visit to Katie’s church privately. You obviously have talked with Rick – get him to help set it up.

    Let’s get the blog back on track, folks.

  230. you would have to ask him yourself.

    I offered an invitation to our church.
    I stated that my pastor is available after every service for questions.
    If he chooses not to engage with you, then you are more than welcome to engage in discussion with me.

    I’m not pulling anything back or retracting anything. You are afraid that you might have to speak to me.

  231. ” On May 28, 2008 at 1:07 pm Katie Said:
    Johnny said “please
    another mouthy woman”

    I know… isn’t it frustrating when a woman speaks the truth (note the sarcasm)… must infuriate someone as yourself.

    Katie it is sarcatist to say you speak truth. The WORD is truth and the baptist church is not in the there

  232. one ood thing about this being in print is
    my case is easy to see Katie

    you said pastor
    I said OK
    You now change
    I say I dont need to be ridiculed for being unkind to women
    it is bad enough to see men whine

  233. to date
    Brian Edwards has threatented to sue for my use of our debate
    Kenneth Johnson
    AC Smith Left town
    JC Richardson threats to sue

    whine whine

  234. I respect that Nathan.

    Johnny should you like to email me further about your invitation, you may do so.

    Nathan is it against blog policy to publically post an email addy?

  235. Faithful said Katie was he available when Norm and Mark came and they were threatened?

    I do not attend that church, that church is my father’s church.

  236. On May 28, 2008 at 1:06 pm johnny Said:
    I’m the resident debator, so please.. partake of the inivitation or not.

    please
    another mouthy woman

    Johnny, why must you make such comments – let me tell you gusy why, so he can control the direct on here and stir up you guys into a fuss with him. Dont fall for this anylonger, just come back with bible questions and answers, he wont hang around long then. Just ignore the actions …they are just his ways to provoke and change the direction…..right Johhny. If not, drop the names and rudeness and just take bible…Katie, Kat, Corey, dont fall for this from him…all its doing is getting us off the issues…

  237. Nathan before you go all big head on us you should know 600 hits a day in the cyber world is nothing to brag on

  238. And for the record I have not whined about anything.

    I indicated that no videotapes or voice recorders would be allowed… and JR whined.

    I indicated that I would be available for debate/discussion and JR whined.

    I am not whining about a thing. thank you 🙂

  239. You all being so proud that you have “baptized 4-5 denominational preachers” only proves to me that your goal is not to preach Jesus-but to debate anyone and everyone who does not believe like you…belittling, slandering, accusing (without anything to back it up) while using deceptive and manipulative tactics…

    when I find ZERO justification for these actions in the Bible, nor is it why Jesus bled and died a cruel death on the cross for us. You only spit on and make a mockery of the cross by these actions. It only helps satan, not God.

    There is a lost and dying world out there in need of HOPE and you just want to debate and tear down the Baptists. It is a waste of time. If you could ONLY use your time, energy, and money on actually fulfilling what Christ has called you to do-I think you would be a powerful force for the kingdom, but instead you only cause damage and try to tear down what God has built.

    Thankfully, God is sovereign and will take care of all of this.

  240. oh we are on the issue
    doctrines that are not strong enough to get out of this little blog and let people decide

    what if all we had of the Presidents debate was blogs

    we can move to the real world or stay in cyber

    i know where you all will stay because you can hide

  241. Not bragging, faithful. Just stating fact. That’s 600 times a day (average) that people come here and get the chance to freely discuss hyperconservative doctrine.

    Katie – go ahead, if you are comfortable with posting your email, it’s up to you.

  242. Johnny said “go back and read the post

    is your pastor going to answer me or not”

    Perhaps I jumped the gun by saying right away that my pastor would discuss with you. I have no right to offer him up for discussion without his permission. I apologize. You are always welcome at our church (as is anyone–Katherine I would LOVE to have you visit!).. but whether or not my pastor will discuss with you would be his decision.

    I publically invite you to our church and I publically say that I would discuss with you. That is your formal invitation.

  243. ok i will take that a a no?

    your pastor was just you bluffing?

    Have you ask your husband if yu can debate

  244. Johnny wrote:
    NTFCC
    c is for corey
    because you have not corrected others yet

    Actually I have. Plenty of times here. Just because you are too lazy to go read the past posts doesn’t mean I didn’t do it.

    NTFJL
    No time for Johnny’s lies

  245. I didn’t say it’s a “no”
    I’m being a respectable person and saying that I should ask my pastor before I line him up for a debate with you. Don’t you think that’s the respectable thing to do? I will ask him tonight, don’t worry.

    And yes my husband supports my decision to debate you, should I so choose (or should you so accept).

  246. That’s fine and dandy, Johnny. But, you’ve done a good job getting things stirred up, and I’m un-stirring them. If you want to set up a discussion with Katie or her pastor, do it on your own nickel. If you want to hang around here and discuss doctrine, you are more than welcome.

    But the interview discussion is over.

  247. so i dont have to resond to you corey?
    are you out
    bye
    1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

    he was a turn coat any way

  248. Better tell Katherine then she thinks stating fact is bragging. She is the one who brought up fruit and then wants to change the subject

  249. On May 28, 2008 at 1:16 pm johnny Said:
    ok i will take that a a no?

    your pastor was just you bluffing?

    Have you ask your husband if yu can debate

    – Johnny, since you are so inclinded to debate, why not pick a tpoic here and lets all discuss. All we have done is dodge the issues…talk bible here with us. We can all be civil and get along, even when we disagree…

  250. JR—- thanks nathan
    I have what I need

    this is where I need that smiley…. :rollseyes:

  251. Oh, “faithful”-once again missing the point…I did not change the subject.

    Converting people to Christ is one thing (which is great if that is what is happening!)…the fruits I was referring to is how Johnny and crew treat people-with contempt and with deceitful and manipulative tactics. I have not seen any fruits of these displayed:

    “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.”

  252. Johnny –

    Glad to be of service.

    Katie –

    No worries. Keep us updated.

    Everyone else –

    Before the side-poking started, what exactly were we discussing? Does anyone even remember?

  253. Johnny wrote:
    so i dont have to resond to you corey?
    are you out
    bye
    1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

    he was a turn coat any way

    Nope. Still right here waiting on you to stop being a coward and to address what I wrote.

    You can’t prove I’m a turn coat but I did prove you are a liar.

  254. “You can’t prove I’m a turn coat but I did prove you are a liar.”

    Said the turn coat. LOL

  255. Yes, it is sad.

    This is so absurd!!! A bunch of Christians calling each other names and not trusting each other-it makes me very sad, and I cannot even imagine how it makes God feel. It does make me want to scream!!

    I am sorry if I have added to any of His heartache-this is just not how it was meant to be!!

  256. Mitch wrote:
    Said the turn coat. LOL

    Hey Mitch, how does it feel to see your master get proven to be a liar? Are you alright with that? Should he not apologize for lying here, or is it okay when he does it?

  257. Randy wrote:
    “sad, very sad”

    You’re right about that, Randy.

    Folks, I think we’ve been used. I would suggest the next time Johnny, James or Norm graces us with their presence, we don’t get so riled up at them. I can almost imagine Johnny’s gleeful laughter as he was stirring things up.

    He’s just an instigator, an agent provocateur.

    Just like Woody Woodpecker.

  258. faithful,

    Still waiting for you to prove Johnny’s accusation which you upheld, that Corey is a “turncoat”.

  259. While we wait and wait and wait for “faithful” to answer, I have a word from the Lord for you, Corey:

    “Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.” Matthew 5:11

  260. Yes, Corey-here is another one for you:

    “In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.” ~2 Timothy 3:12-13

  261. I’m not worried about what he says tonight on his program.

    Many of the people that watch his program, know me personally and anyone that knows me will realize the ridiculous nature of whatever he happens to post with my name tagged to it.

    I didn’t misrepresent myself at all. But it doesn’t matter what is said (either through word or in person) they will misconstrue it to suit their needs/agendas. So there’s really no “right” way to go about discussion with them. All roads lead to their manipulation and deception.

  262. The funny thing is his refusal to give out our URL. Yesterday I had over 70 searches on Google for “answering church of christ”, and I get searches every day. Our blog is now on several different blogrolls. It’s been advertised up and down the blogosphere, and shows up on many different searches – from “church of Christ” to “what does the Bible say”.

    It really doesn’t matter if he mentions us or not. Folks are finding us.

  263. Mitch doesn’t have to explain to me why he thinks I’m a “turn-coat”. I know why he thinks it – because his master said it and so he parrots it.

    Perhaps he can prove me wrong. If he will admit that it was wrong for Johnny to lie and say he was posting for the last time, only to come back, then I will hear him out. Otherwise he can save his breath.

  264. my reason for today

    this came to me by email from Katie

    …”I jumped the gun in volunteering that my pastor would engage with you. He has heard of you and has expressed that he would not be interested in debating you.”

    she knew all along her pastor would not discuss and I knew it and this is why we do what we do.
    The truth is you all are weak and you know your doctrine will not hold up so the 5 of you wait around for someone to fall in here because the TV is to tough

  265. I wasn’t being manipulative.

    I was sincere about the invitation and still am. And my pastor would be available for questions which is what I said and is true. But when you wanted me to commit him to speak with you, I cannot do that. That’s called honesty. Take a nice dose of it every once and awhile. He may very well tell me that he’d be happy to engage in discussion with you. But regardless of whether he would be, the offer still remains that you are invited and that I will speak with you. I cannot say for sure if my pastor would. And that is not what you want. you do not wish to speak with me so you are offended that I cannot commit another person to want to talk to you. That’s ridiculous.

  266. I told him last week that I believed him to be out of step. I guess nobody remembers that

  267. good nite all
    this was child’s play for us
    we are ready for Ergun Caner the top of the Liberty Food chain
    he won’t step out
    if you want the broadcast corey where we prove all you need do is ask

    faithful remember
    NTFCC

  268. I figured since you and faithful know so much about everyone else that you already knew where I go.

    And Caner isn’t the top of the LU food chain… as you put it… if you want to really go for the top, try Jonathan Falwell.

    Ahh yes… and I’m an LU grad. 🙂

  269. 1Ti 1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
    (KJV)

    Mt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
    Mr 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
    Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
    (KJV)

  270. faithful,

    So if someone is “out of step” (according to your limited view of Scripture), then they are turncoats?

    Would you provide us with the BCV that backs up this ridiculous notion, using the specific context of your comment to Corey as the example?

  271. Mitch wrote:
    I told him last week that I believed him to be out of step. I guess nobody remembers that

    You told me I was out of step on your un-scriptural practice of forbidding the Lord’s Supper. Would you like to discuss that?

    Johnny wrote:
    if you want the broadcast corey where we prove all you need do is ask

    No thanks. There are plenty of sermons and videos available online from men who aren’t proven liars. I’ll just stick with them.

  272. katie please
    J Fal… is not accomplished
    Caner is the president of the TS
    He is debate par excellence
    where are you getting info from

  273. katie would you like the vidoe where the president of the debate ran from us?

    “he cannot be answered” he said of me as he was explaining to his students why he would not debate me

  274. Just saying that technically the top of the LU food chain as far as the spiritual life is concerned would be Jonathan Falwell.
    I agree that Caner is an excellent debator. I love Caner, amazing man.

    But just saying that’s not necessarily the top of the LU food chain. I would consider the “top” of the LU food chain to be the Falwell brothers.

    Of course the best debate would have been you versus Jerry Falwell. I have no doubts, were he still alive that he would be all for that debate.

  275. Caner won’t debate you because your reputation precedes yourself and you are known for manipulation and deceit. Who would knowingly debate that on your TV show?

  276. Katie
    since we all now know your preacher has not the tools to defend his position would you email your great champion J Fal….? or have you just volunteered him for my viewers tonite

  277. I didn’t volunteer him , I said he’s more technically the top of the food chain. Thanks for trying to put words in my mouth though.

  278. On May 28, 2008 at 2:09 pm Katie Said:

    Caner won’t debate you because your reputation precedes yourself and you are known for manipulation and deceit. Who would knowingly debate that on your TV show?

    are you speaking for him Katie or is this what you think
    I have correspondence from him tooo you know and it doent bear out at all as you say

  279. While we debate our differences a world of truly lost people are headed to hell. The real devil must be quite content. And I am sure satan is greatful to his puppet for carrying out such deceitful distractions

  280. Faithful said “Johnny has not told a lie”…

    hmmm wonder what the definition of “lie” is… or better yet what is the definition of “a”

  281. Mitch wrote:
    Johnny has not told a lie

    So, if I say that this is my last post here and later I come back and start posting again have I lied?

    Please explain how that is not a lie. I’d love to hear it.

  282. What Johnny is known for is showing scriptures that expose the false doctrine and man made religion.

  283. Nothing bears out to you as anyone says because you take everything and bend and twist it to suit your agenda. Thus is the pattern of a chronic manipulator.

  284. HA! “faithful”, open your eyes, friend. You have not been able to back up your accusations, either-only opinions that mainly stem from your “fearless leader”.

  285. No. He said it was his last post and later he said he wasn’t coming back. It obviously wasn’t his last post and he obviously came back. He lied. Just admit it.

  286. “What Johnny is known for is showing scriptures that expose the false doctrine and man made religion.”

    Yes, we know that what he is known for is attempting to expose “false doctrine” and man-made religion, but not by going to the Bible. God never told us this was our main duty, yet Johnny has taken it upon himself to provide His OWN agenda-apart from what God has instructed him to do, and will keep going at all costs-even when God does not approve.

    What he has NOT shown is that he is trying to preach the beautiful message of Jesus or anything that resembles God’s love, grace, and mercy. He has not shown one iota that he believes, practices, or preaches ANY of this.

    He is not preaching the gospel of Christ, but the gospel according to Johnny-and he is gathering his own group of followers-like you, who will defend and justify his evil ways without blinking an eye.

  287. So did he come back that day? Have you ever changed your mind? When you did , did that make you a liar?

  288. ok get this
    katie says today we can come and her pastor will answer questions and now where are we

    email to me just a few minutes ago from katie

    I jumped the gun in volunteering that my pastor would engage with you. He has heard of you and has expressed that he would not be interested in debating you. I am unsure if you were to come as I have invited that he would engage in discussion

    faithful remember
    NTFKC
    NTFCC

  289. He came back because his worker bee was feeding him information and after a surprise visit to my dad’s house the other day, he decided to try and fuel something up again on here. Like Nathan said, he’s an instigator, nothing more— nothing less. Like a bully on the playground, doing his best to push everyone’s buttons.

  290. Johnny are you mentally incapable of understanding people are do you just pretend to be incapable on TV and online?

    Seriously

    We have moved past this moot point.

    You don’t want to debate me. Fine.

    You want to debate my pastor. Fine.

    I cannot assure you that you will given the opportunity.

    You are upset like a sad school child because you aren’t getting your way. Just “cowboy up” and come and speak with me. It’s me who you have the issues with and it’s me who you posted about on here and it’s me whose family you are harassing. So bring it on, and we’ll talk like adults. If you are capable.

  291. On May 28, 2008 at 2:11 pm Rick Said:

    While we debate our differences a world of truly lost people are headed to hell. The real devil must be quite content. And I am sure satan is greatful to his puppet for carrying out such deceitful distractions

    so rick, the baptist in Semple’s History who argued with Episc, Presbyt Church of Eng and changed VA was that the devils work or Jesus

    Caner brew ha ha with White that went on for 1 year all over the net was that devil or Jesus

    you guys are so week

  292. Mitch wrote:
    So did he come back that day? Have you ever changed your mind? When you did , did that make you a liar?

    Let me break this down for you:

    If I say, “I don’t think I’m ever coming back here” and then I do come back, I changed my mind. Nothing wrong with that.

    If I say, “I’m not coming back here” and then I do, I lied. That is a sin and that is just what Johnny did.

    This is why you have so little credibility with the people here – you want them to change their religious beliefs yet you won’t even admit it when your master clearly told a lie. Bill Clinton could have used you on his side during his impeachment hearings.

  293. Ac 16:6 ¶ Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
    7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.

    Is Paul a liar?He changed his plans

  294. my position with married women

    I have never been in a shuffle with a man about what I said personally to his wife because I always speak to the husband not her.

    Men generally want to fight when other men speak “disrespectfully” to their wives.

    no thanks katie

    disrespectfully is in quotes

  295. and to contribute to Corey’s discussion… I believe Johnny referred to this place as a “dark place”.. so we are so “dark” here why does he keep coming back and if I’m the “devil” as he said, why continue to discuss with us?

  296. “so rick, the baptist in Semple’s History who argued with Episc, Presbyt Church of Eng and changed VA was that the devils work or Jesus

    Caner brew ha ha with White that went on for 1 year all over the net was that devil or Jesus

    you guys are so week”

    Does this make sense to ANYone??!!!

    Rick, you are so incredibly right.

  297. katei
    are you going to contact J Fal…
    and are you the one who brought him up on my broadcast?
    corey the lie detector is listening so be careful

  298. Even God changed his mind Is he a liar?
    Jon 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

  299. Perhaps if you weren’t disrespectful, rude, and unkind then these men wouldn’t have an issue with their wives debating you.

    You are right though, my husband doesn’t like you so he would more than likely be pretty upset were he to be in your presence as you were rude or disrespectful to me. As he should be, he’s my husband.

    Change your approact at debate and I bet more people would be more inclined to answer your questions.

  300. Paul was forbidden by the Holy Spirit to go where he wanted. Was Johnny forced by the Holy Spirit to come back here?

  301. I don’t believe I brought him up on your broadcast. I called in to your show about 2 years ago and haven’t watched you very much since.

    I recently called into Norm’s show but I don’t recall mentioning Falwell.

  302. here we go again
    the devil wants us to change
    the presbyterians report that we “swelled to 150,000” and went like a torrent over VA KY with this manner

    why would we change
    Corey?

  303. “What Johnny is known for is showing scriptures that expose the false doctrine and man made religion.”

    Do you know what Paul commands us concerning those who teach false doctrine? (Well, not “false doctrine”, because that particular phrase doesn’t appear in the KJV of the Word) Paul actually uses the expression, “contrary… doctrine”.

    But I digress.

    Does Paul say that we are to go and debate with them and videotape them and stir them up? No. Listen to what Paul commands:

    “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.” Romans 16:17

    “avoid” is from the greek, “ekklino” and in this context it is used in the imperative case. That means it is a command, not a suggestion.

    (Incidentally, Isn’t it interesting how that verse follows the church of Christ banner verse – Romans 16:16 (which also includes another imperative – the command to greet one another with a holy kiss).)

    So, to sum up – Johnny, by going after those who he believes are teaching false doctrine, is directly defying the command of Paul that we are to avoid such people. Isn’t that interesting?

    And don’t even get me started on “man-made religion”. That phrase doesn’t appear in the KJV of the NT, either.

    So, the question begs to be answered… where do they get the authorization to disobey the command of Romans 16:17 and to speak where the Bible is silent by trying to “expose man made religion”?

  304. Was God actually going to do evil? Does God need to repent? You sound like you need to do a little studying on that.

  305. On May 28, 2008 at 2:26 pm faithful Said:
    Even God changed his mind Is he a liar?
    Jon 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

  306. Katherine said “Hmmm…Katie, who do you see backing out now??!!

    Interesting.”

    dang mouthy women, trip him up everytime… LOL

  307. Johnny I am just saying that satan must really be laughing hard while we burn up so much energy and time tearing apart each other’s opinion of who is right and who is wrong in Scriptural interpretation while a world of sinners are dying and going to hell because we are too busy arguing instead of presenting them with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

  308. Cory we shouldn’t discussing with you because we don’t want to distract you from going back to your vomit. IT must be tasty

  309. “NTFKC”

    This reminds me of NKOTB-New Kids On the Block 😉

    You know, they are attempting to make a comeback?

    You’ve got the right stuff…

  310. Ac 6:9 Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen.
    Ac 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
    Ac 19:8 ¶ And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
    Ac 19:9 But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.
    Ac 24:12 And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people, neither in the synagogues, nor in the city:
    (KJV)

  311. “faithful”, what is your deal with Corey??!!!

    Just because he will not engage in such deceptive and condemning tactics, you continue to attack him? Where do you get scriptural authority (NOT taken out of context) to act this way? From the lips of Johnny?

  312. Cory we shouldn’t discussing with you because we don’t want to distract you from going back to your vomit. IT must be tasty

    Good job avoiding the subject Mitch. I’d expect nothing less from you.

    Maybe you should both just go away since you shouldn’t be discussing with us.

  313. Rick speaks the truth again 🙂

    “Johnny I am just saying that satan must really be laughing hard while we burn up so much energy and time tearing apart each other’s opinion of who is right and who is wrong in Scriptural interpretation while a world of sinners are dying and going to hell because we are too busy arguing instead of presenting them with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.”

  314. Katie here a verse on hanging tough
    Lu 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

  315. Rick speaks the truth again

    “Johnny I am just saying that satan must really be laughing hard while we burn up so much energy and time tearing apart each other’s opinion of who is right and who is wrong in Scriptural interpretation while a world of sinners are dying and going to hell because we are too busy arguing instead of presenting them with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.”

    yep.. preach it daddy-o

  316. Nathan maybe it is time to repost your earlier discussion starter about the tactics used by deceiving debaters. It was a long list of the more common debate tactics. Remember?

  317. denominational preacher=
    2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
    (KJV)

  318. 2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
    2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
    (KJV)

  319. wow.. faithful your definition sounds as if it were written about JR himself… thanks for the clarification

  320. well I have wasted enough of my afternoon on here

    it’s time for church
    I shall return later

    and for those not in the viewing area, I will try and watch the program tonight and give a report 😉

  321. Nathan said
    Do you know what Paul commands us concerning those who teach false doctrine? (Well, not “false doctrine”, because that particular phrase doesn’t appear in the KJV of the Word) Paul actually uses the expression, “contrary… doctrine”.

    2Pe 2:1 ¶ But there were false prophets also among the people , even as there shall be FALSE TEACHERS among you , who privily shall bring in damnable heresies , even denying the Lord that bought them , and bring upon themselves swift destruction .

    SAME WORD AS DOCTRINE

  322. Too bad he’s not a denominational preacher but a gospel preacher then you could say that. The great thing about having the truth is it can be scrutinised. You can shine light on truth and it doesn’t mind. Baptist doctrine however hides from the light

  323. Interesting that the word “denominational” preacher isn’t used and also interesting that you all still claim not to be a denomination when you are the worst of all “denominations”.

    But I suppose I should never cease to be amazed at what you just don’t seem to quite “get”.

  324. Ha, funny “faithful”-just because you say something does not make it truth, either.

    Johnny is a denominational preacher-MUCH worse than those he chooses to condemn. Resistance and denial is futile-it will not change who he is or what he is doing, even though you want to exalt him to some high point. I wonder who you are more “faithful” to sometimes-Johnny or Jesus.

    You are right-you can always shine light on the truth, and there is no light in how Johnny acts. All will come out into the light one day, though. Truth will always be TRUTH-no matter how bad you want it to be otherwise or try to twist and distort it.

    Jesus is THE TRUTH.

  325. Amen Katherine, Jesus is most definitely THE truth!! And the power there is in the truth of Jesus is amazing! I hope and pray that one day these guys will finally find it and will start sharing that with others and not the lies and manipulation that they permeate through the TV and computer screens now.

  326. TO ALL
    katie wrote
    “You are right though, my husband doesn’t like you so he would more than likely be pretty upset were he to be in your presence as you were rude or disrespectful to me. As he should be, he’s my husband.”

    you see why we are very careful?
    What you all consider rude is what Jesus and the apostles did all the time

    If a fight broke out from katies husband being upset … who would report?
    the baptist?

    so I guess you could say that Katie admitted what I already knew to be true

    Now the question is,, why do I have to change my tactics which are in the Bible , to keep the baptist from wanting to FIGHT?

  327. No one WANTS to fight Johnny— people want the same respect that they attempt to give you. People want to be treated as human and with kindness. Even if you are making a strong point, there is a way to do so without belittling, disrespecting, and manipulating the conversation. Whomever taught you how to debate, surely was setting you up to make enemies and not to convert the lost.

    I have debated Mormons, athiests, wiccans, and agnostics and I have always received pleasant responses from them. Not because I watered down the truth but because I listened to them, I acknowledged their words, I respected their opinions but I stood firm on THE truth. Because of that I have had the pleasure of showing those people who Jesus is, was, and will be and of those that I have debated I had the privilege of watching a known satanist come to know the Lord.

    It IS possible to debate, to be consistent, to stand firm and uncompromising ALL while respecting a person and being kind. You are incapable of that and that is your biggest flaw.

  328. so I need to learn from katie now not jesus
    did jesus do as you say did paul
    Ac 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,
    10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

  329. Johnny, I have news for you: Your tactics are found nowhere nor are justified by ANY stretch of the imagination in the Bible or by Jesus.

    Jesus did not deceive, manipulate, attack, and condemn like you have-and to even think of putting yourself in the same category or place as Him is absolutely absurd and blasphemous.

    YOUR agenda is simply not from Jesus-plain and simple, that is why you have to resort to these evil and deceptive tactics.

  330. Katie
    your dad said the baptist are declining as all know
    wonder why
    his church is all 60 some people (age)
    where are the youth

  331. And furthermore.
    I have gone toe to toe in discussion with your pal Norm and he’s a very respectable man. I felt no nastiness from him. At times he was a bit sarcastic (but admittedly I was also). At times he was a bit defensive (but so was I). However at the end of our nearly hour and a half long discussion on air, I respect him and admire his stand on what he holds to be true.

    Same with our buddy on here, corey. I admire and respect him.

    Both of these men believe much as you do and yet show a greater level of respect and kindness towards others. I know you feel differently about corey but you must admit that Norm Fields believes as you do and you would do well to learn from him on how to appropriately interact with others and engage in debate.

  332. VERY well said, Katie…

    and Johnny, you should learn from Katie because she is speaking the truth of Jesus to you. You just need to open your blinded eyes.

  333. Katie
    you said you were leaving? Corey go to it now.
    Katie said
    I have debated Mormons, athiests, wiccans, and agnostics and I have always received pleasant responses from them.
    So if Paul was beaten run out of town,, ie didnt get a pleasant response he needs Katie training

    goood one

  334. Where are the youth Johnny??

    I’ll tell you where the youth are in our society, they are fed up with church. Why??? Because of debates like this. Because of seeing hypocrites across the board who claim to be Christian but yet treat others disrespectfully. We live in a world of contradictions and double standards and instead of setting a positive example for our youth, the church is tearing itself down within itself (and I’m not talking about BAPTISTS here). We are losing ground as a whole as Christians and for the most part is because of inner-conflicts within groups that claim to be believers.

    So the youth are fed up with it and are seeking fulfillment from outside sources where they feel loved, accepted, and fed. And its ALL OUR FAULT, you included.

  335. Johnny don’t be a fool.

    You know that by “pleasant responses” I was referring to the way that we engaged in conversation. Did I please them and convert them all? No, the message of salvation is hard for some people to come to terms with and giving up a life of sin is a hard decision for some. But I did respect them and because of that, I was able to have multiple conversations with them where seeds continued to be planted. I didn’t shut the doors of ministry with them because I was rude and spineless in my approach.

  336. Oh my, it is like speaking to the deaf and blind.

    “Though seeing, they do not see;
    though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
    ” ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
    you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
    For this people’s heart has become calloused;
    they hardly hear with their ears,
    and they have closed their eyes.
    Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
    hear with their ears,
    understand with their hearts
    and turn, and I would heal them.’ ~Matthew 13:13-15

  337. Johnny it would do you good to stop putting words into people’s mouth and start putting the Word of God on your lips.

  338. Katie
    that is all we have done today is discuss style
    and you want a style that you cannot prove is from the bible

    the men in the bible were firm calling a false teacher a false teacher and minister of Satan what he was

    you are one of them and no amount of whine in going to get us to change to your “pleasant” style

  339. Katie, so very well said:

    “Where are the youth Johnny??

    I’ll tell you where the youth are in our society, they are fed up with church. Why??? Because of debates like this. Because of seeing hypocrites across the board who claim to be Christian but yet treat others disrespectfully. We live in a world of contradictions and double standards and instead of setting a positive example for our youth, the church is tearing itself down within itself (and I’m not talking about BAPTISTS here). We are losing ground as a whole as Christians and for the most part is because of inner-conflicts within groups that claim to be believers.

    So the youth are fed up with it and are seeking fulfillment from outside sources where they feel loved, accepted, and fed. And its ALL OUR FAULT, you included.”

    It is so sadly true. That is one of the main reasons I HATE this so much.

  340. Well Johnny good luck with your brash and disrespectful approach to Christianity.

    I know that it makes you “proud” of yourself to speak to people as you do. Stop trying to make up for any personal inadequacies and just let God do His work through you. It’s not supposed to be about Johnny and what Johnny can say and how Johnny can make someone look bad and how Johnny can misinterpret people. It’s supposed to be about God and sharing the gospel with the Lost and bringing the lost to Him, reflecting the message of LOVE, GRACE, and TRUTH. You have made Chrisitanity about yourself and you are at fault for that and you will be held accountable for that.

  341. katie
    I can produce more than just one “known” person who has obeyed what we are teaching the way we are teaching and they all without exception say they saw it because of the back and forth that took place where in you all tried to defend your weak position
    many even say that the one thing that really impressed them was how unwilling you preachers were to debate openly when called out. When they were sure willing to debate in behind the scences phone conversations where no one knew it was them

  342. katie
    I have been able to have an all day discussion with you
    so have I passed the Katie pleasant course

  343. I can produce more than one “known” person also but don’t you realize that its not about US. It’s about HIM. It’s not about how many people you can or can’t or I can or can’t produce.. its about the message we are sending. When the overwhelming majority of people in a large radius hear your name and say “that man is a jerk”… do you honestly think you are representing Christ?? If you do, then you are truly more at fault then even I can comprehend and I am thankful that I will not be held accountable for your actions.

  344. quote from Johnny

    “so rick, the baptist in Semple’s History who argued with Episc, Presbyt Church of Eng and changed VA was that the devils work or Jesus

    Caner brew ha ha with White that went on for 1 year all over the net was that devil or Jesus

    you guys are so week”

    Wow. Just checked in on the conversation from yesterday. There has been a lot of posts like the one above.

    What do Johnny and Faithful have against Corey? I gathered from my conversation with him yesterday that Corey is a conservative member of the Church of Christ denomination. Is he disliked for simply expressing his thoughts in a cognitive manner and being polite?

    Johnny,

    Only about 10% of what you write is even remotely understandable. What are we supposed to take from statements like the one above? Why do you hate Baptists so much? What is this “showdown” with Muslims you keep ranting about? Why do you hate ACU? Isn’t that a COC university? I would love to respond to your posts, however I simply do not understand what you are so mad about and what points you are trying to convey. Slow down, take a deep breath, and at least make attempt to clearly convey your message.

  345. Not true… you can’t break me or upset me… you didn’t pass any “course”… you are still unpleasant, plain and simple.

    I will keep discussing with you because I enjoy debate and I enjoy proclaming THE TRUTH to all who might hear it.

  346. Katie continues to speak the TRUTH IN LOVE, yet you will not listen, Johnny, because you have already branded her very falsely. You really have proven that you are all about your agenda and not about Jesus and His message.

    Even when the plain truth of God is placed in front of your nose-you guys cannot see it or absolutely refuse to see it…and you expect anyone to actually believe or trust you? No way.

  347. Ok “I Dont understand”
    everyone else is evidently more educated in this kind of discussion
    move on
    we are doing fine

  348. Katie
    you didnt answer that

    you made the argument

    overwhelming hate johnny
    ie …he is bad

    overwhelming hate Jesus he was good

    what were trying to say then

  349. DMH said
    Johnny,

    Only about 10% of what you write is even remotely understandable.

    Johnny said

    we all are doing fine
    if you cant keep up move on

  350. I didn’t make the argument that you were anything like Jesus… in fact you are nothing like Him which proves our point that your message reflects nothing off the cross but only points to yourself.

    If we put your actions up against the Word, we see nothing in your message that is parallel to God’s word, other than admonitions against false teachers (because yes I believe YOU to be one).

    So my point remains. The overwhelming majority of actual Bible-believing Christians hears and sees you and realizes that your message is not a reflection of Christ. It’s a reflection of the Pharisees and their teaching/speaking of the importance of their laws and the things they had done “right”. Your message is much more parallel with theirs.

  351. Okay I really do have to go now, I’m running late

    Just a thought Johnny
    you’ll debate me on here… why not just debate me in person then our invitation can stand. 🙂

  352. Katie
    I thought you debated

    you said
    overwhelming say I am a jerk

    what does it prove when the majority say things negative

    I ask you that
    what does it prove

  353. “we all are doing fine
    if you cant keep up move on”

    Is that how you address people that have questions about your religious beliefs? You are actually a minister of a church? Are you kidding me?

    Your right.

    I should probably move away from this type of lunacy.

  354. it proves that the overwhelming majority of Christians see you for what you are… a false teacher

  355. The majority is not the rule for which of us is telling the truth

    Lu 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

    Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
    14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

    what was the point of bringing up the majority please

  356. Katie
    because your husband cant prove it was you or me here
    someone could claiming they are katie whomever and i dont know for sure that this is not your dad
    I dont know if nathan is man or woman

  357. Of all the people in our area who truly are Christians, I just find it odd that all those would look at you and your message… compare it to the Word and find no similarities.

    Now if the majority were all godless sinners who had never opened a bible, I would say you are right… who cares what they think. But the majority I’m referring to are the countless preachers and congregations who will have nothing to do with you because of your negative Christ-less message that you permeate through all you conversations and TV shows.

  358. Johnny, contrary to what you think-we don’t hate you. What we don’t like is how you act and your deceptive tactics-especially when you claim them all in the name of Jesus. You are not a reflection of Him by these actions, and when the world sees people who act like you do-they are turned away from the message of Jesus.

    That is why we stand up against your tactics and stand firm on what we believe.

  359. Paul had a hard message to bear and surely made people upset along the way. But Paul’s message was received by the church’s for which they were directed because his letters matched up with the rest of the Bible. In context, he was not being unbiblical, he was not reflecting a negative message.

    You not only make people upset, you misrepresent the Word and bear false witness on your television show and on here. And for that reason, believers reject you.

  360. You at times clothe yourself in truth… but everything is always pointed back to YOU and not Jesus which is a huge red flag screaming “I’m false, I’m false, I’m false”…

    and I have to go
    I have a class of children to teach this evening.

  361. Katie just said
    “Now if the majority were all godless sinners who had never opened a bible, I would say you are right…who cares what they think.”

    I thought this was all about the above

    the saved are already OK

    I thought I was hurting the unchruched?

    wow

  362. “The majority is not the rule for which of us is telling the truth”

    All cult leaders use similar reasoning. Of course, it means nothing if you are not telling the truth to begin with.

  363. Unfortunately your message does hurt the unchurched because they hear of and see the negative effects of your actions.

    More than anything you are hurting the cause of Christ plain and simple.

  364. Katie
    will it be out of context for me to quote that you said “who cares about the
    “godless sinners who had never opened a bible”
    on my show

  365. JR said “Katie
    because your husband cant prove it was you or me here
    someone could claiming they are katie whomever and i dont know for sure that this is not your dad
    I dont know if nathan is man or woman”

    and that’s a lame excuse
    I am who I say I am… my offer will stand

  366. You are hurting those who are trying to reach the unchurched because of your clear hypocrisy, arrogance, and condemnation. When they see this-they are even more turned off than they already are. Is that really what you want?

    You also hurt those who are already in Christ because of your attacks.

  367. Katie
    about as lame as you throwing your weak pastor out and then rilling him in again

  368. yes Johnny that would be a misquote

    my reputation speaks for itself in these parts
    people know me much better than that
    anything you attempt to use with my name on it, will do nothing but make you look further like a false teacher living a life of prideful sin with a message focused on himself.

  369. Katie
    was that nathan that made that quote then?

    it had your name
    I quoted it exactly as you wrote it

  370. He doesn’t care Katherine. he’s the king of “out of context” even when it comes to scripture.

  371. “Did I please them and convert them all? ”

    By not all you mean none correct Katie?

  372. That’s your problem.
    If you would read the bible in its entirity you wouldn’t quote that as you do either.
    All things should be taken in context, including the phrases before and after a sentence.
    This is basic literary understanding. Did they not teach that at your “preacher school”

  373. Here is the exact quote in all its length

    On May 28, 2008 at 3:28 pm Katie Said:

    Of all the people in our area who truly are Christians, I just find it odd that all those would look at you and your message… compare it to the Word and find no similarities.

    Now if the majority were all godless sinners who had never opened a bible, I would say you are right… who cares what they think. But the majority I’m referring to are the countless preachers and congregations who will have nothing to do with you because of your negative Christ-less message that you permeate through all you conversations and TV shows.

    now how s it that you can deny you said that

  374. you know what I was referring to and I don’t care what you quote or don’t quote

    as I said… my reputation will speak for itself, you will only make yourself look more false.

  375. YOU DID NOT!!! You are proving over and OVER your manipulative, lying, and deceitful ways!!!

    Case in point:

    Katie said:

    “Now if the majority were all godless sinners who had never opened a bible, I would say you are right… who cares what they think. But the majority I’m referring to are the countless preachers and congregations who will have nothing to do with you because of your negative Christ-less message that you permeate through all you conversations and TV shows.”

    Johnny blatantly twisted it majorly to say:

    “who cares about the godless sinners who had never opened a bible”

    to fit his evil growing agenda.

    We can ALL see it!! Do you think we are blind? You are a fraud.

  376. ” On May 28, 2008 at 3:34 pm Katherine Said:
    You are hurting those who are trying to reach the unchurched because of your clear hypocrisy, arrogance, and condemnation. When they see this-they are even more turned off than they already are. Is that really what you want?

    You also hurt those who are already in Christ because of your attacks.

    Katie I’m glad he hurting the meesage that you and people like you spew out. It’s a false message , a dead faith , and leading poeple to hell with a smile on thier faces

  377. Oh well, look at it this way Katie. Johnny’s cowardly back tracking is really a compliment to you. Its obvious to anyone reading here with half a brain that he is very afraid to debate you. I’m sure he is very threatened by intelligent and articulate women such as you and Katherine. Is this dude married or anything? I don’t know him except from reading this forum and it appears from his posts he is very threatened by women and education. He fears both, which he doesn’t have (education that is, don’t know about women) so he attempts to degrade them. He probably wishes he was educated, but he puts out that he doesn’t hold it in high regard. Typical defense mechanism working here.

  378. Faithful, I mean really, do you always walk so close behind Johnny that we can not see your head?

  379. Gail , I don’t you you . Seems like you have chimed in after almost everyone has left. Is that eally all you can contribute. You are standing so close to Katire I can’t see you so are you another hypocrite in the baptist church?

  380. Nathan
    will you call in and verify that the exact context was given on you r site
    when I state that katie said

    On May 28, 2008 at 3:28 pm Katie Said: Of all the people in our area who truly are Christians, I just find it odd that all those would look at you and your message… compare it to the Word and find no similarities.

    Now if the majority were all godless sinners who had never opened a bible, I would say you are right… who cares what they think.

    But the majority I’m referring to are the countless preachers and congregations who will have nothing to do with you because of your negative Christ-less message that you permeate through all you conversations and TV shows.

    Would you faithful

  381. “faithful” said:

    “Katie I’m glad he hurting the meesage that you and people like you spew out. It’s a false message , a dead faith, and leading poeple to hell with a smile on thier faces”

    That was me, Katherine who said that.

    He is hurting the message of GOD-you are glad about that? He is the one spreading the false message, but you are so faithful to Johnny that you cannot even see that. Take your Johnny glasses off and look at Jesus, HE is the author and perfecter of our faith, NOT Johnny and the message he spews of condemnation and contempt.

  382. “Its obvious to anyone reading here with half a brain that he is very afraid to debate you.”

    If his debating skills are as finely crafted as his a ability to write, that would be a very entertaining event indeed.

    Johnny,

    What are you so angry about? Your posts are dripping with anger and deceit.

    What if your Biblical interpretations are wrong? Are you willing to die by the same sword you live by?

  383. On May 28, 2008 at 3:28 pm johnny Said:
    this could actually be a website from Texas and you could be Randy

    –Do what? Johnny, like I said, I dont know Nathan either, but when I am on here, I use my real name or my blog name…maybe faithful could use his real name.

  384. katies post
    On May 28, 2008 at 3:28 pm Katie Said: Of all the people in our area who truly are Christians, I just find it odd that all those would look at you and your message… compare it to the Word and find no similarities.
    Now if the majority were all godless sinners who had never opened a bible, I would say you are right… who cares what they think…

  385. Randy
    will I be out context to say that in fact she
    said

    “Now if the majority were all godless sinners who had never opened a bible, I would say you are right… who cares what they think…”

    I will be playing all full quotes

  386. Johnny that is a typical baptist attitude. As long as they think they can’t go to hell why wory about the others type of thing

  387. On May 28, 2008 at 3:54 pm faithful Said:
    Katherine smells of vomit

    Johhny is this what you are promoting !!?? It seems like you guys just want to name call and belittle people. How can you honestly say this is Christlike? Johnny, proove Christ acted this way towards people seeking him?

  388. “DMH
    are you a member of the church”

    Is this a statement or a question?

    What Church?

    How would me answering this assist you in explaining your convoluted posts?

  389. Randy
    this lady threw out her pastor
    then pulled him back in and knew he wouldnt debate
    they all debate in closet
    but claim i am bad for doing it on air

    she says things like this and I am bad

    I knew you wouldnt do it
    I just wanted your response for tonite
    thanks

  390. okay before I walk out the door

    Let’s take the whole phrase in context.

    I said that the majority in our are hear Johnny’s name and think he’s a jerk.

    He wanted clarification and compared himself to Jesus and the jews that mocked him and sent him to the cross.

    I pointed out that Johnny was not Jesus and offered clarification.

    I was not referring to the unbelieving majority (as the jews who sent Jesus to the cross, were not believers in Jesus Christ as Savior). I was referring to the Bible believing majority. Johnny cannot deceive those who know the Word. I said the who cares portion that he is happily misquoting to emphasize that if he is pleasing those who aren’t even believers, then his point is still not valid. The ones who do not appreciate Johnny or his message are the people of our area who are believers and read the Word and see how Johnny contradicts scripture and misrepresents christ. How could an unbeliever come to that kind of conclusion?

    So… in summary.
    The majority of Bible believing Christians in our area believe Johnny to be crazy, false teacher. In the context of this discussion, the belief of the unbeliever is irrelevant because they are not the majority for which I was referring to.

    Johnny… was that clear enough for you pal, or do you need me to break it down further. I am pretty good at teaching preschool-5th grade so I can speak on your level if necessary.

  391. If you smelled vomit, it would be from me throwing up from the crap that Johnny has been spewing because it makes me sick.

    What an absolute disgrace you guys are.

    I am a faithful follower of Christ, thank you. I don’t try to twist and distort His beautiful message-but recognize, am thankful and LIVE in it-which is WAY more than I can see for your guys.

    What a joke.

  392. On May 28, 2008 at 4:00 pm Randy Said:

    On May 28, 2008 at 3:54 pm faithful Said:
    Katherine smells of vomit

    Hello randy
    can we not refr to scripture now
    2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

    she says she s a member of the church

  393. Mitch, faithful, Chuck, Josh, or whoever you are 🙂
    On May 28, 2008 at 4:00 pm faithful Said:
    Johnny that is a typical baptist attitude. As long as they think they can’t go to hell why wory about the others type of thing

    What sins would seperate you from God?
    What amount of sin would seperate you from God?
    Are you without sin?

    From what I have read, you seem quite sinful towards people – guess you lost your salvaion.

  394. Johnny, quote me all you want.

    And when I call in on your show, will you mute me like you do everyone else and continue the deceit parade? Of course you will.. because you don’t debate fairly, you debate to make yourself look better and care nothing about the message of Christ.

    You are the epitome of a false teacher. And our whole area is well aware of this.

  395. Thanks katie
    that is even better

    because it is the unbelieving that listen to us the most

  396. yes I did
    I keep trying to get out the door which is what ya’ll want so you can try and misrepresent me, but I keep feeling the necessity to respond to this foolishness

  397. and actually from what I have heard Johnny, it’s the believers who are sick of your ignorance that listen to you the most

  398. katie said
    “I keep trying to get out the door which is what ya’ll want so you can try and misrepresent me,

    but earlier she said
    her rep would withstand whatever so

    go katie go

  399. JR said “working all this in tonite”

    I’m sure you are. 🙄

    go ahead, make a fool of yourself

  400. I think I ironic that those in the Lord’s church can point to the bible and show they obeyed the gospel but the baptist have yet to show the sinners prayer in the bible after 10 years of the church offering a $1000 reward for it.

  401. Hello randy
    can we not refr to scripture now
    2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

    okay folks, turn to the passage he lifted from context..the context is addressing lost people not saved people who become lost…These men are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,”[d] and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

    Question: Was this a dog that returned to its vomit, meaning a dog only follows its true nature?

    Same with the pig, you can dress the pig up make it smell good, look good, but its nature is to wallow in the mire. Peter clearly called these men “wells without water”. They had escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, but Peter doest say they were saved…many today escape the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, but really are wells without water, lost men with a sinful nature and just as the dog and pig, they always show their true nature in the end…maybe you guys have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, but inwardly you havent been changed.

  402. Faithful
    have you ever see a copy of the “Baptist Faith and Message”.. which is what it is called.. not the Baptist “manual”

  403. I have one also I have a baptist manual. There is many more typs of baptist you know

    I thought you were leaving. I wonder if Cory will call you a liar now .

  404. Randy you need to go a littttlle further up
    he is speaking of folks that went astray

    2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

    2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way,

    and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
    16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man’s voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
    17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

    now you can get

    these refers to????

    those forsaking
    the right ways

    v2 followers of the false teacher

  405. “SO DMH is ashamed of the church they attend , ok. play dumb”

    Is that what you are asking? The question (or statement) asked if I was a member of “The Church.” Did this refer to Universal Christianity, your particular sect, a denomination?

    I was raised in a Church of Christ congregation. I still attend one sometimes with family. I am a member of a Methodist Congregation. I also attend an Eastern Orthodox Church from time to time.

  406. On May 28, 2008 at 4:22 pm faithful Said:
    I think I ironic that those in the Lord’s church can point to the bible and show they obeyed the gospel but the baptist have yet to show the sinners prayer in the bible after 10 years of the church offering a $1000 reward for it.

    okay Mitch, there isnt a sinners prayer. We heard this a few times already. It all boils down to baptism right Mitch? Or does Christ save us? Wonder where my focus should be on Christ or the water? How often is Christ preached on TV by you guys? I knew Johnny was working up people on here so he could present it….thats why I contacted Nathan via email. We know the games he plays…too bad you dont or maybe you do 🙂

    Now, pick a biblical subject and lets talk about it.

  407. “Alot of vomit eatters here today”

    Honestly,

    This is how you get your point across? You should be ashamed.

  408. Randy haven’y you already proven that over more than a year you’re all talk no action? How do you know that you even could respond at this point ? Past feeling?

  409. Johnny as I told you in person on Monday, Southern Baptists hold to the Bible as its authority in life and in doctrine and not the Baptist Faith and Message. The BF&M is a condensed statement of what Southern Baptist believe the Bible teaches about major themes of the Bible.

  410. On May 28, 2008 at 4:42 pm faithful Said:
    Randy haven’y you already proven that over more than a year you’re all talk no action? How do you know that you even could respond at this point ? Past feeling?

    Mitch, you know not what you are saying – very sad. Like I stated, lets pick a tpoic and be civil and discuss it….you pick the topic “faithful”

  411. well guys, I am signing off – headed to the church of Christ…( Fairystone VA. ) I will check back in on my breaks and lunch from work rest of this week

    take care guys !

    Randy

  412. Johnny, you are always out of context.

    But, people know the truth-so no matter how you try to sling mud at us, truth will never change. I’ll keep placing my trust in Jesus, who is the way, the truth, and the life.

  413. when is it exactly that mr. robertson’s little program comes on television this evening?

  414. and Johnny
    if you are out there this evening.

    I spoke with my pastor and he is definitely not interested in discussing anything with you. At first today I thought that it could be potentially interesting to have an actual conversation/discussion with you. Of course after you let your true colors shine today, it’s paintfully obvious to me that you would be unable to have such a discussion.

    Anyone is welcome at our church at any time but you will not be given the opportunity to discuss anything or to gain any “footage” for your program. But make no mistake, we are definitely singling you out.

    Because I know the next question is always “what do you have to hide” or “why doesn’t your church allow people to ask questions”. The fact is… we do… but you have no intentions of being respectful or kind so you personally would not be allowed to inquire or question or even discuss. Because you have proven to me today that you are an unkind, hateful person. I was holding out on making such a judgement about you and hoping to engage with you in lively discussion. But I see the error of my ways in holding out hope that you could be civil.

    And I apologize Nathan for saying this on the blog but even though I emailed him earlier, he took the liberties to post my email on here, so I figured I’d post this on the wide open for everyone to read my post in its entirity.

  415. No problem, Katie.

    JR – that sort of action (posting part of a private interchange between yourself and Katie without her permission) is part of the reason why you are so disrespected in the community. It’s not because you preach the truth of the Gospel and are being persecuted, it’s because you use such dirty and underhanded tactics.

    When did Jesus ever betray a confidence and use a private conversation against someone?

    And by the way, back to the point I made when I last posted – this is what you guys do (and by “you guys” I mean ultra-hyperconservatives) – you are faced with a very specific and notable command from Scripture, and rather than acknowledging that command, you run to a different part of Scripture and sputter, “but look what they did!”

    You didn’t give me a command from Scripture that supersedes the command given by Paul. You gave me an example of what other people did. Isn’t the command the thing to which you should be paying attention? Or is that only if it fits your agenda?

    I would guess that this pesky little command is also why so many people won’t appear on your broadcast. They are avoiding you, per Paul’s command to Christians when faced with someone teaching something “contrary to the doctrine”. They are obeying the Scriptures. Frankly, in this situation, it doesn’t appear that you are.

    Mr. Answer

  416. hi faithless,
    good to see your coming along with your spelling lessons. {surmising} great job, but of course you know you still cant have your “ful” back yet.
    still cant play nice. did anyone notice his bravado increase while john was on?
    corey, a week or so back i pointed johns return to the dark room. is a man a liar because he lies? or does he lie because hes a liar? anyway good catch.
    and randy, john told me pretty much the same thing you mentioned earlier that he listened to country music.
    but thats ok we know how wholesome that is.
    wait a minute is that more hearsay?
    ac smith heard john and i heard john. “i take every oppertunity to make a fool out of brian edwards”
    but then on another week “i love brian”
    now which is it? as you well know from from my regular prose, i am not at all interested in gaining johns approval as some of my brethren here. nathan ,randy katie, kathrine, others, johns not your brother and for the life of me i dont know why you would want him.
    but just like a train wreck its hard to look away.
    evil communication corrupts good manners.
    now how bout a chorus of rhinestone cowboy?
    lee

  417. lee… the rhinestone cowboy comment cracks me up….

    you’re right
    he’s not our brother but it is hard to look away and not defend.

    I think today however I have learned a valuable lesson about the kind of man he is.

  418. John McArthur wrote something interesting about the progression of arguments:

    “You know, it’s an interesting thing about arguments. They have a progression of levels. Conflict is a progressive thing. Conflict starts in the intellectual level and you have a debate, right? And you present your side, you do a little mental gymnastics back and forth. Then if you don’t seem to be getting your point across intellectually, it deteriorates to the next level which is the emotional level and you start talking louder. And you’re starting to think not only is his point bad, I don’t even like him. And what started out as an intellectual argument has deteriorated into an emotional involvement. And you don’t stay at that level for too long. When you begin to lose on that level you go down one more step and you wind out at the verbal slander level. You see, the incompetent always drops to the level of the verbal slander.”

    This is probably a good example of the progression that JR takes in his approach with others.

    One of the lessons that Nathan’s blog has helped us to learn about dealing with and answering JR’s brand of coC is discerning their tactics and attitudes towards others.

  419. Very true, Rick.

    By the way, I didn’t ignore your idea of reposting Randy’s ultra-hypercon CofC “Dirty Tactic” list. I think you are right that it’s a good time to put that up again. I’ve just run out of time and will do that in the morning. I’ve got to dig it up first.

  420. No problem..things were kinda of hopping in here today for sure. Blessings for a restful evening.

  421. I will have difficulty going to sleep this evening and it’s all Lee’s fault..for some reason I can’t get the rhinestone cowboy chorus out of my head! 🙂

  422. Look again “faithful”. Why do you continue to defend him? Do you feel you have to? I don’t know how any honest person, much less someone who calls themselves a Christian can back up and defend this kind of behavior.

  423. oh faithless,
    pick me ! pick me!
    let me be the one you hurl names at.
    you whine way too much for a guy who likes to start fights. “it seems the lady doth protest too much”
    in other words, stop crying when someone gives it right back to you. if you can let go of Pecos Bills duster long enough, we can talk about more prudent things like the word of god. but i know that wont happen.
    anyway happy trails to you……………………..

    [roy rodgers reference]………………………
    i know how those things bother you.
    lee

    [

  424. I bet Johnny didnt give the blogs URL last night, did he? Wonder why he is so afraid to ? I never recall seeing him pushed in a corner like this before – he cant control the blog and its only getting bigger and bigger – I guess I see why he will not tell the url…his folks might see the other side…

  425. I think he comes on 18 locally, I dont watch them anymore, so I really dont know for sure.

  426. I think he comes on 18 locally, I dont watch them anymore, so I really dont know for sure.

  427. On May 28, 2008 at 4:22 pm faithful Said:
    I think I ironic that those in the Lord’s church can point to the bible and show they obeyed the gospel but the baptist have yet to show the sinners prayer in the bible after 10 years of the church offering a $1000 reward for it.

    Faithful, I wanted to answer some of your questions. No I am not a Baptist, but I am also not a member of your sect any longer. My family is and I grew up in it. After over 30 years of being an agnostic after leaving the c of c I found a very loving faith family so I do now go to church. I do get smarty on here sometimes, but it is only because I still love all of you very much and I get frustrated with your tactics and the spiritual abuse that you inflict on especially women. I quoted your post above because it is a perfect example of everything wrong with my heritage. I know you don’t see it though do you? Do you really think (take off your c of c blinders first) that Jesus would approve of spending money in this way? Or would he want you to spend that $1000 on the things he instructed us to do as Christians. Let me remind you of what they are because the c of c tends to not read this part: Feed the hungry, cloth the poor, take care of the sick. No where did Jesus instruct us to treat Christianity like its a big competetive game saying I wager you can’t find this. ha ha. That’s what makes me sad about my heritage and why I will never go back.

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