Johnny, Where’s my $1,000?

1K 

 Johnny, I’d like my $1,000 please. 

 

You see, I do find my church in the Bible. Do a concordance search for “presbytery”. 1 Tim 4:14 – Paul talks about the laying on of hands of the Presbytery – which is from the Greek “presbyterion” – meaning the body of elders, senate or council. The folks who started the “Presbyterian” church were referring to this form of church government.

As to your claim that your church is the only one found in the Bible, and your use of Romans 16:16 to justify it, I hate to tell you this, but Romans 16:16 wasn’t talking about your church any more than it was talking about mine.  Paul was referring to a specific group of churches that existed two thousand years ago. Paul wasn’t thinking about you, he was thinking and referring to specific churches that existed at that time. Otherwise, how could he speak for them in sending their greetings? 

And before you say that I can look at your practice and see that you are just like the New Testament church, explain why you aren’t obedient to the other part of Romans 16:16, where Paul commands his readers to “salute one another with an holy kiss”.

When I asked James Oldfield about this, he said that they do not…:

“Nor do we wash feet, since both of those were customary greetings and practices of that time.” 

Woah, Woah, Woah!  Did he just say that this was a “customary” greeting?!?  Let’s look at that again.

“Nor do we wash feet, since both of those were customary greetings… customary greetingscustomary greetingscustomary greetings customary greetings… and practices of that time.”  

Does your Bible read “Salute one another with an customary kiss”?   My Bible says it is a “holy” kiss.  What does “holy” mean?  It means “venerated as or as if sacred”.  That sounds pretty special, and something that a group that claims to be the New Testament church should pay special attention to.

Not to mention that the command is given not just once.  Not twice.  Not three times.  But four times.  FOUR TIMES! 

 Rom 16:16:  Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

1Cr 16:20:  All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with an holy kiss.

2Cr 13:12:  Greet one another with an holy kiss.

1Th 5:26:  Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss.

These men say that you are sinning if you don’t take the Lord’s Supper each first day of the week because of an oblique reference in ONE VERSE, and yet they don’t have a problem disobeying Scripture on this one.  Why is that?  Are they worried about halitosis?  BUY SOME TIC TACS, MAN!

So anyway, I’d appreciate it if you’d take my $1,000 and donate it to the Presbyterian Children’s Home of the Highlands if you don’t mind.  You can do it in your name.

***note:  for those of you not familiar with Johnny Robertson, he is the host of a Church of Christ television broadcast in southern Virginia/Northern North Carolina.  And he has offered $1000 to the person in a denomination who is able to find their denomination in the Bible.  Of course, I would be fully prepared for Mr. Robertson to rip apart my claim if he only participated in our little blog here.  But, apparently, he considers this to be the place of “people who lurk in the shadows”, and that we are only “giggleing little girls” (exact quote – misspelling and all), and so he won’t come here and defend his doctrine even though he knows all about our little corner of the web.  Pity!  Those kids could use the $1000!***

 

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21 thoughts on “Johnny, Where’s my $1,000?

  1. how about addressing the comment i have made to norm and james.
    from the end of the new testament until 1820 or so there is no clear
    written history of the “COC”. there is a clear trail of christs working
    through various transformation, ie protastant ref. their only answer
    to me is “show one area where we are different in our doctrine”.
    that doesnt address the point.

  2. It’s a good point, lee. What did they say in response?

    Did you notice last night that Johnny blasted Premillennialism for not appearing until the 1800’s, when the same is true for the “Church of Christ”?

    Meanwhile, the next time they ask you to show you “one area” where they differ from the NT church, bring up the holy kiss. Of course, since they read this blog, they’ll have an answer ready for you, but the only correct answer is that they’ve been in error.

  3. To suggest that the CofC all follow the same pattern is far from truth. They have more sects and slpits than the denominations–over 100 things they teach diff.

    btw, Hey Nathn ! Im on my parents PC right now—mine crashed

  4. Happy New Year,

    Great point about Romans 16:16. The context and grammar are referring to ownership, the churches that are Christ’s. Nowhere does the New Testament call for a proper name for Christ’s body.

    The name Church of Christ would obviously be appropriate but,1) The CoC that Johnny is in, Christ has nothing to do with, because,2) They teach a false gospel, the damnable heresy of baptismal regeneration.

    I highly recommend the book:” Campbellism: It’s History And Heresies.” by Bob Ross. It is very well documented and is a short paperback and easy to read.

    Hoping the Lord will be even more glorified this new year than ever before.

    Tommy

  5. Tonight my Presbyterian Church had a New Year’s Eve service, and my pastor actually prayed asking the Lord to be with the church of Christ in the coming year!

    *gasp* Did he pray for the Church that Johnny Robertson talks about?

    Or, does “church of Christ” have a more universal meaning? Could it mean all churches where believers gather? Including Presbyterians, Baptists, Anglicans, Pentecostals, and even the Church that meets in the Holiday Inn Express in Reidsville?

    Hmm… a radical thought for the new year.

  6. Good article.

    The whole CoC notion that Baptists (such as myself) are giving honor to John the Baptist is laughable. If they had half a clue, they’d know John the Baptist has nothing to do with it…

    I’ve added you to my blogroll so I can learn more about how to handle these people.

    Keep up the good work.

  7. Hi Rhett,

    Glad to have you here. Just so you know a bit more about this place – we aren’t against Churches of Christ – we are exploring the teachings of three specific hard-core fundamentalist Church of Christ teachers who have three cable programs in southern Virginia and North Carolina. Usually, I find that I disagree with their teaching, but not always.

    You can see their websites by going to http://www.bibleqna.com, and follow the links on that page to find the other men.

    So, we’re glad to have you along, and please feel free to add comments when you feel so led.

    Blessings,
    Nathan

  8. I’m not against the CoC in general, but I’m certainly against some of the teachings that come from the fundamentalists in the movement.
    We have a hard-liner in our town. Anathematizes everyone but himself and the 7 members who attend his services… Sounds alot like these guys you deal with.

    I once filled the pulpit of an Independent Christian Church in another town. Young church, young people, full of energy and enthusiasm: though they were a branch of the Restoration movement, they were very easy going and just great to be around. I would have loved to have been their “minister”.

    It all came to a screeching halt when I ate lunch with a minister from an ICC that was helping finance the fledgling church. He figured out I was a Calvinist and we had one very passionate discussion in that resturant! Needless to say, another (ICC) minister was quickly found to fill that pulpit.

    Happy New Year!

    Rhett

  9. johnny said something new to me at least. lucifer is not satan,but
    the king of tyre. never read about him in genesis account of the
    garden of eden. and just for clarity i am against robertsons whole way
    of teaching, he is doing a great deal of harm to the average person
    who tunes in and hearing 98% truth is lead astray. im very
    concerned.

  10. One misconception: The CofC doesn’t teach baptismal regeneration—least not as it was/is taught by the Roman Catholics. The CofC teaches that baptism is an act of faith like repentance is an act of faith. They do not teach that baptism merits salvation-they teach salvation is of Christ, but that one must be obey the gospel-meaning when one hears the gospel, he must exercise faith—Acts 2:38 > repent and be baptized…in other words not just a dead faith, but a faith that obeys. I guess one question we could ask: When does Christ blood work on the sinner?? Is it at the point of faith-meaning prior to repentance?? If not, you have faith plus repentance or you have faith producing repentance. Then the same argument could be made about baptism seeing Peter tied them together in Acts 2:38.

  11. I thought you might like this Nathan. Wonder why Johnny and crew dont share this info??

    Church of Christ: Organized by Presbyterians in Kentucky in 1804 and in Pennsylvania in 1809. 1.6 million followers.

  12. I had a unique experience today–my Supervisor ask me “what must she do to be saved” and before I could answer, she quickly followed up with “does one have to be baptized to be saved”? Having studied baptism a little bit 🙂 , I understand it as being a part of faith-an act of faith, but I also learned, that I shouldn’t over-emphasize baptism to the degree that I bypass Christ and His work on the cross. The focal point must be Christ and not some 5 step formula that some in the church of Christ declare as the way to enter into the kingdom. The response should be from the heart, not a 5 step program to gain entrance to the kingdom. She kept asking me does she need to ask for forgiveness and accept Christ and my first thoughts were “don’t you know nobody ever got saved after the cross that way” I guess having studied with you CofC guys made me want to kill her position, rather than help save her soul. I don’t see a problem if someone desires from an honest heart to cry out to God for forgiveness. When one believes the facts alone, this is dead faith with no saving power, but when one believes to the point they cry out for forgiveness-trusting Christ…. and upon faith in Christ, they repent and are baptized, it’s not by works, but a living faith that they obey the gospel. I did not, nor never do I want to have some formula like some of you CofC guys use and spit out like a 5 step process into a club or something. Why can’t you make Christ your focal point like Peter done when he preached the Gospel? The people Peter preached to desired Christ and repentance and baptism was an open door of faith – not part of some 5 step formula. They responded not of merit, not to some 5 step formula, but of faith in Christ….a guilty heart crying out to God and in living faith they repented and were baptized…added to the body, by God. They had faith in Christ, not faith in repentance and not faith in baptism. Repentance and baptism were merely a heart responding from a living, saving, faith….

  13. Actually since the coC fellows want to be so technical they should know that the “church of Christ” isn’t found in Scriptures either. If you go to the original Greek documents you will not find the word “church” in the New Testament. Instead you will find the word “ekklesia” which had an original meaning of “assembly”. King James translators under direction of the good King used the term church instead of the correct word. So technically, “churches of Christ” isn’t in the Scripture either. It was written in the Greek original “assemblies of Christ”. Of course, these guys probably think that the King James Version (which is a translation of the orginial Greek documents of God’s Word) supersedes the original word.

  14. Having spent some time in the CofC, I can tell you what they will say to the comment by Rick. They are quite aware of the Greek word “ekklesia” and when they say they are the “church of Christ” they mean they are the one true assembly that can be traced back to Acts 2:38. They often ask, “can you show me where we have strayed from the “pattern” of the early church”? Then they will point out how others ( denominations ) are not worshiping per the pattern. When they say they are the church of Christ, they mean the assmebly of Christ that dates back to Acts 2:38.

  15. Seven words:

    “Greet one another with an holy kiss.”

    They’ve departed from the pattern.

    ‘Nuff said.

  16. Ahh… yes… the fabled “holy handshake”. 😉

    Can you imagine if they said, “Baptism was a cultural thing at the time. And so today, we don’t baptize – we just pat them on the head.”

    It’s the same thing – there is a Biblical command, and they change it as they please – with absolutely no authorization. They should be ashamed!

  17. I am gonna attempt to set up another blog churchesofchrist.wordpress.com …might take me a few weeks or months. Email me if you have any suggestions on getting set up as I am new to this.

  18. I guess by your standards if a word is in the bibe it qualifies as a church. Would the Beelzebub fornicator church be ok? Just because the word” presbytery” is in the bible doesn’t mean there was a church refered to by that name any more than baptist.

  19. Where do you find “church of Christ” in the Bible? What? You can’t? Interesting…

    I didn’t say that there was a church by the name “presbyterian”, I said “…the folks who started the “Presbyterian” church were referring to this form of church government.” THAT is where the Presbyterian church gets the authority to be so named. Now, considering you guys don’t believe in having any sort of association officially with other “assemblies”, you really don’t have authority to exist considering the only references to “Church of Christ” is in the plural.

    By the way, what is a “bibe”? Reminds me of the “giggleling little girls” spelling fiasco.

    Oh – nice cowboy hat, by the way. 😉

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