Answering Norm Fields – December 21, 2007 – Part II

guitar 

“Mechanical Instruments in Worship”

Norm said that the use of musical instruments to aid in worship is like using jelly on the communion bread to aid in taking the Lord’s Supper.  There’s one big problem with this clever but incorrect analogy – nowhere in the Old Testament were believers given authority to use jelly in any part of worship.   However, in the book of Psalms, believers are given permission to use musical instruments in worship.

Ps 33:1-3; Ps 71:22; Ps 81:1-2; Ps 92:1-4; Ps 98:4-6; Ps 147:7

And in the NT?  As Norm discussed last night, we have Eph 5:19 & Col 3:16 both talking about “psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs”.  Last night Norm tried to disarm these passages by focusing on the lack of a specific instrument being mentioned – and claiming that the instrument in question was “the heart”.

1)  What about the passages where the heart isn’t mentioned?  Like James 5:13?  “Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.”

2)  But the bigger question here is:  when the writers of the New Testament spoke of singing “psalms”, to what were they referring?  Just general songs that were made up?  If so, whey did they make the distinction between “psalms, hymns and spiritual songs”?  Those are three different words in the Greek – “Psalms/psalmos” – “hymns/hymnos” – “spiritual songs/pneumatikos ode”.  Why wouldn’t they have just said, sing to yourself using songs!

Let’s look at “psalmos”.  

It means:

1) a striking, twanging
a) of a striking the chords of a musical instrument
b) of a pious song, a psalm

It seems to this amateur student of Biblical Greek that the writer’s use of this word is implicit permission for musical instruments.  Either directly by use of “striking, twanging, or striking the chords of a musical instrument” or by use of the Psalms – wherein the permission (some might say command) to use musical instruments is repeatedly given. The first century church would have used the Psalms as their songbook! It’s the only “psalmos” they had!

As to the question of silence, and as had been argued before, the Bible is silent on the subjects of church buildings, audio and visual equipment, worship leaders, located preachers, youth ministers, campus ministers, pitch pipes, tuning forks, Sunday school, and indoor pools for baptisms yet folks feel free to use them because they accomplish a purpose. Any method that fulfills the purposes of God is permissible so long as it does not violate a clear principle of Scripture. We apply the same rule of interpretation to instrumental music.

Finally, these verses which Norm and company throw out whenever they get the chance (Eph 5:19 & Col 3:16) aren’t even dealing with what folks can and can’t do in worship.  They are talking about daily living!  If you use these verses to conclude that the use of mechanical instruments is wrong in your assembly, then you must also conclude that it is wrong outside the assembly because both passages are focused on daily living.

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34 thoughts on “Answering Norm Fields – December 21, 2007 – Part II

  1. I’ve sent a portion of this comment over to Norm’s youtube site. If he won’t respond here on our blog, perhaps he’ll allow my comment to be posted over there, and comment.

    I’d earlier sent over the blog URL to his youtube site, but he hasn’t permitted that comment to be posted. The funny thing is I’ll gladly put up his blog with no problem here: http://www.bibleqna.com.

    Everyone go over and visit his blog and his youtube site (just go to http://www.youtube.com and enter “preachernorm” in the search tool). You can hear all kinds of excerpts of his teachings there.

    I wonder why Norm won’t extend the same courtesy to us?

  2. Where in the heck does it say not to play musical instruments in the bible

    Ok now 1 in the old testament they used instruments and
    2 god is the same yesterday, today, and forver. Now what does that mean, ok let me make it simple God hasn’t changed so if you think about it what do you get we still can use musical instruments to worship. Now I’m not against worshiping without musical instruments but I am against that Nroms says no to musical instruments.

  3. Hi David,

    It doesn’t say it anywhere, but the point of our friends at the CofC is that we aren’t given PERMISSION to use instruments in the NT. They’d say that the sin is our presumption that we can do something that we’ve not been given the authority to do.

    IF you bring up the OT, they’d ask if you are under the new covenant or the old. Because if you are under the NEW covenant, you have to do only what the NC gives you authority to do. Then, they’d ask if you practice sacrificing animals, because that’s something the old covenant commands.

    Like I’ve said before – if they want to practice worship acapella, that’s fine. It’s their business. However, I started this blog because it irritated me so that they’d come on and with the fervency of a Taliban Imam tell everyone in the community that they must practice worship their way as well, or go to hell.

    Johnny: “What church are you in? Is it found in the New Testament? Why are you worshipping in a church that’s not found in the NT?”

    Well, “church of Christ” is not found there either!

  4. Seems to me they tend to take things to the extreme. I know about the saying, “where the Bible is silent, we are silent.” Then if thats the case let’s get rid of the pulpit, pews, building funds, the list can go on. For the Bible doesnt mention any of those.

    Did not the Jews and Jewish Christians many times sang the psalms, which in turn used instruments. I’ll say it a thousand times. To each his own. If my heart wants to sing to the Lord with instruments, so be it. That is between me and my Saviour Jesus Christ. WHen my focus is solely on Him then I am doing what I am suppose to do. I can do it by myself or with choir, with or without instruments.

    Something juut tells me that God wants true praise from the heart. I may not like every kind of music style that is out there, but that falls into opinion.

  5. Most of the time when johnny is talking his full of it.

    Ok now answering johnnys ? What church are you in? Is it found in the New Testament? Why are you worshipping in a church that’s not found in the NT

    Frist, I’m from Armando deloas church.
    Second, No its not, But his the croc found in the NT.
    Thrid, Again no but the worship the we have well probaly bolw Johnny away.

    Ok my ?s for johnny
    Do you go to a dead church?
    His your god dead?

    David Jenkins

    edited by the moderator

  6. David,

    Let’s keep the insults out of this, please. We’re trying to have a good discussion, and using insults will not encourage Johnny and his associates to post here.

    Thank you,
    Nathan
    the Moderator

  7. alright this is David

    OK I’ll stop the insalts.

    Is there anywhere in this website that Mr. Robertson would be at.

  8. Thanks, David!

    Johnny has visited it in the past, but he refuses to come out publicly and say he’s here or that he’s been here.

  9. The one thing I have noticed is people tend to be scared by innovations. A new thing comes along and it is not allowed. Only because it is new? That in and off itself makes no sense. For if you go by that reasoning then you must not use anything that is made or invented after the first century church. Which let’s face it, that’s alot of stuff. No cars, radio, tv, computer, the tie which you wear. I mean if you want to be like the NT church, which is fine and dandy, but good luck in doing it. For you cannot be picking and choosing what you like and what you dislike. You must be consistant in your thinking. By the way, good luck on living like the NT church in America. Don’t get me wrong, I love what the Restoaration Movement stood for, the unity and authority of ALL of Christ’s people.

  10. Speaking where the Bible speaks and being silent where the Bible is silent means doing when God speaks and not doing when He doesn’t speak. The Bible teaches the principle that whatever is not of faith is sin. Romans 14:23. Faith comes from *hearing* God’s word. Romans 10:17. Faith is not a mental assent that God exists and Jesus is His son. Faith is believing what God says and acting accordingly. Without this faith, a person cannot be pleasing to God. Hebrews 11.

    Now, in application to the question of instrumental music, God spoke. He said what He wanted: singing. Colossians 3:16, Ephesians 5:19, Mark 14:26. Not in one place did God through inspiration ever command or give us an example of new testament Christians offering any kind of music other than singing. Now ask yourself this question: if you go into a restaurant and order a hamburger, have you spoken? Are you required to go over the entire menu with the waiter and tell him explicitly what you do NOT want? Or did you imply what you didn’t want by saying what you DID want? This is normal human communications, and God uses human language, through His word to speak to us. On the subject of music as worship, God spoke. He therefore was not silent.

    Regarding the arguement from the meaning of the word psalms, God said to sing and speak them. He did not say to play them. Ephesians 5:19. Further, old Testament authority for the use of manmade instruments is invalid in NT worship because inspiration teaches us that to bind any single tenant of the old worship system to the new causes us to be debtor to the whole “old law” (Galatians 5:3) and carries the consequence of falling from grace (Galatians 5:4). Well, this being the case, it should be noted that manmade instruments were a part of the Levitical system of worship (2 Chronicles 29:25).

    So in the absence of the command to use them in our New Testament worship there exists the probability that they are prohibited. From diligent study I believe this to be the case and I believe their use invalidates our worship today. It is not out of any meanness or unkindness that I try and set this forth. It is out of concern for those who are worshipping in error. Manmade musical instruments were not used in the first century worship and for roughly a thousand years or so afterwards so we reject their use today.

    What it all boils down to here is a genuine effort on the part of God’s people to completely lay aside the doctrines and teachings of men and seek from scripture the way the first century Christians worshipped and lived and follow that example and it alone. Inspiration teaches us that the doctrines and commandments of men render our worship vain in Mark 7:7 and Matthew 15:9. Well, the only way we ever be assured of worshipping in spirit and in truth is to pattern our lives after something we KNOW to be correct. People were saved in the first century. We have the way they did this at our fingertips. We can be saved in the same way they were by doing what they did and changing nothing in the form of their worship.

    They sang, we sing

    They believed, we believe

    They were obedient to God’s will, we are obedient to God’s will

    They served God, we serve God.

    The list goes on and on, but the point is. If we believe what they believed, live the Christian life how they lived it, worship after the same form of worship they used we will be today no more or no less today than what they were then. Christians. By following this simple basic premise, we can 100% assured that we have laid aside the doctrines of men and are worshipping God acceptably and in spirit and in truth.

    It is my sincere hope all of you will consider these things prayerfully and earnestly. “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?” Galatians 4:16

    Romans 16:16
    “…The churches of Christ salute you.”
    KJV

  11. They leave a bunch of verses out….do they lift up holy hands…do they sell their things and give to the poor….do they annoint the sick with oil…and there are so many more that just go ignored. One comes to mind that not one of these preachers obeyed. Has anyone tried to restore their brother Jason back to the Lord……….NOPE !!!!

    You only follow the examples and commands you want to….

  12. So what your saying is that we should only do what was commanded? If it wasn’t strictly commanded then we should not do it?

    Then by that reasoning the Wise Men sinned in bringing birthday gifts to our Saviour (Matt. 2:1-11). They were not commanded to do so.
    Mary was not rebuked by the Lord Himself when she anointed Jesus without authorization (John 12:1).
    The woman who washed Jesus’ feet was never commanded to do so either(Luke 7:36-50).
    Or Paul cutting his hair relating to a vow (Acts 21:23-26).

    You have contended that the silence of the New Covenant writers on the subjects of the using of musical instruments is evidence that God does not want people to use it. However, since singing was commonly accompanied in all societies, and since the Jews had used it under the law, the failure to mention it would only seem to indicate that it was of no matter to God.

    In view of these examples, can we not say definitely that God has given the privilege of praise to all men at all times? Can we not agree that men offered acceptable worship without specific command or instruction in various instances? Have we not been authorized to glorify Him in all things we do and granted the privilege’s of using methods which utilize our talents in expressing it?

    Out of the slogan “we speak where the Bible speaks and are silent where the Bible is silent” you have created two laws: law of exclusion and the law of silence, both man made. Both laws are devices to enforce legal concepts. They are efforts to enforce ritualistic details than to fulfill God’s purpose.

  13. Great Points Matt !! I honestly wished these men would see that we don’t seek to teach license as some conclude, but we seek to teach a grace centered gospel void of human assumptions from the so-called law of silence. As Paul stated to those desiring to put people under bondage, I fear also that some today have “fallen from grace”.

  14. Randy,

    The last thing you will ever have to worry about is someone falling from grace who is seeking to be obedient to God’s will. The way He wants it.

    Grace centered does not mean permission to sin. God is not going to make himself or His Son out to be a liar in order to give you or anyone else His grace. He cannot lie so when we see things like Matthew 7:21

    “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”

    We conclude that there are conditions to be met in order to receive God’s grace.

    As for you alluding to the authority of silence, well, God was not silent on instrumental music. He told us to sing. That is a specific command. In the presence of a general command, there is freedom to choose, but, in the presence of a specific command, everything else is ruled out. God was not silent on this.

    He told us to sing. He never ever said “play” in the New Testament. ever. And you cannot get around this fact.

    Now….. In addition, here is a little something for you all to mull over. Throughout scripture we have phrases that teach us about the nature of God. For instance Isaiah 45:21 teaches us that God is just, which is another word for fair. Titus 1:2 teaches us that God cannot lie. 1 John 4:8 teaches us that God is love. When we put all these together, we can learn who God is, what His personality is, etc, etc.

    Acts 17:24 teaches us another nature of God which declares that He does not dwell in temples made with hands. Then in verse 25 inspiration makes this little statement:

    Acts 17:25
    Neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

    God’s nature is that He is not worshipped with men’s hands. What do we use then? Our hearts. Our worship must… must… must…. be in spirit, (from the heart), and in truth, (according to God’s word).

    If we are not worshipping God according to His word, then we are not worshipping in truth because God’s word is truth. John 17:17

    God was not silent on the issue of manmade instruments of music. Not at all.

  15. Here’s the thing about which I am convinced. In Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8, we are commanded to not make our weaker brothers stumble, by rubbing it in their faces what we do (or don’t do).

    I have absolutely no problem with you having a strong conscience towards not having instruments in your worship. I support that idea fully – that if God has given you an acapella conviction, that you follow that. What offends me is that fundamentalist CofC folks try to weigh everyone else down with their convictions. Now, I know and appreciate that you think you are doing everyone a service by this, but you are not.

    I’d remind you of what Paul said to the Romans regarding the eating of food sacrificed to idols – a situation that I find mirrored in this debate:

    “Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.”

    If you do not accept this, then you are lording your knowledge over others – because I have read countless debates between Christians on both sides of this, and the arguments for both sides are compelling. Both sides can find justification for their practice in Scripture. Whether you accept that justification or not is your business.

    And believe it or not, God has received men and women in denominations as well as in the group of non-incorporated churches that call themselves “Church of Christ”. But you aren’t alone there – we are all in the churches of Christ.

    Nathan

  16. Good Point Nathan! We all are in the churches of Christ and now you have fiqured out why I call my blog http://churchesofchrist.wordpress.com, because I knew some would think about the “denomination” churches of Christ and they have replied quite a bit, but really I mean just as Nathan stated, “we are all in the churches of Christ”.

    David says: Grace centered does not mean permission to sin.

    Randy says : Who even hinted that we are teaching grace as a means to sin. (btw, show me one verse where God states music is a sin) You are missing the entire point. Grace teaches one not to sin or as Paul would say compels one…. why cant you guys see this?? It concerns me when you see the Bible as a law book to be just before God.

  17. First off, the church of Christ is not a denomination.

    Second, none of you have even addressed the scriptures and thoughts I offered. You just talked right over my post and offered nothing substantive. It’s called proof by assertion.

    I read in one part of this website where discussion with someone from the church of Christ was desired. Well, in a discussion, viewpoints are compared, scriptures are discussed and hopefully some growth is achieved.

    Unless you cannot answer the scriptures I provided. Which if is the case then perhaps another look at your beliefs is in order.

    Here is another verse of scripture which pertains directly to the issue of instrumental music in worship.

    1 Corinthians 4:6
    Now these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes; that in us ye might learn not (to go) beyond the things which are written; that no one of you be puffed up for the one against the other.
    ASV

    The command here is not to go beyond what is written. In the original Greek it is actually written “do not think beyond that which is written”

    Now….. in the absense of any command whatsoever in new testament scripture for the use of manmade musical instruments, and in the presence of scripture forbidding us to even think beyond what is written, let alone go there….. then I would say you have your scriptures which support the fact that the use of them is sinful in view of the fact that to go beyond what is written is indeed a violation of God’s will.

  18. David, my point was addressing your point.

    It comes from the assumption (and maybe that’s my fault – making an assumption – tell me if I’m wrong) that you are strongly convinced in the correctness of your interpretation of Scripture (and yes, it is YOUR interpretation – not the only interpretation) and the incorrectness of my interpretation. And further, that you have had this same discussion a number of times with folks like me, and probably know all of the rebuttal arguments I could make, and have rebuttals all lined up for my rebuttals. Therefore, rather than wasting anyone’s time going into these same arguments again – I’d rather look deeper – to the way Christians are supposed to treat one another.

    My post was all about what Paul had to say about this matter. Paul’s instructions on liberty among Christians were clear – here’s my paraphrase – if it is not sin, and your brother feels liberty – give him that liberty. If your brother doesn’t feel liberty – than don’t feel like you have to convince him otherwise.

    I suppose the biggest difference lies at these two points – and this is assumption #2 & #3. Again, correct me if I’m mistaken:

    1) You don’t consider me to be your brother, because I interpret the Word differently than you – or you might say, I haven’t “obeyed the Gospel” (as you interpret it from Scripture).
    2) You consider the use of musical instruments in worship to be a sin.

    Well, I am probably not going to convince you that either of those two things are false, because again, you’ve heard the arguments over and over again. Assumption #1 again, and if I am mistaken, please tell me, but I think that is the case.

    But what I don’t get is when Assumption #2 is not the case, you still jump on each other’s case.

    For example, I understand that there is a church in Oklahoma called Quail Springs CofC, and they recently announced that they were adding a service where musical instruments would be used. They did this after much prayer and study, according to the source page. They’ve concluded that it is not sin, and have decided that this is one way that they can better reach the lost.

    The response from other churches of Christ in the area? You can see for yourself here, and are probably not surprised: http://gospelnews.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/oklahoman_ad_red1.pdf

    I like the “Henderson Marked” bit.

    You can read more responses here:
    http://gospelnews.wordpress.com/?s=quail

    Did the men who took out this ad just take a Sharpie and mark through Romans 14 and 1 Cor 8? Or like the Diest, Thomas Jefferson, they just tore out the parts that they don’t like? Or, are the folks at Quail Springs CofC just not Christians, too?

    Thoughts, David?
    Nathan

  19. A Christian denomination is an identifiable religious body under a common name, structure, and/or doctrine within larger Christianity.

  20. Great Points Nathan.

    There are many cofC groups who have instruments of music, but they will be called sinners or fallen brethren by the ultra conservatives. One thing I have noticed with most of the ultra conservative types is they quite often pull scriptures from their context and apply them to their doctrinal views. Cecil Hook, Carl Ketcherside were ultra conservatives at one time, but later repented and even wrote books exposing the verses they quite often used out of context. I love how they always go to >

    Corinthians 4:6
    Now these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes; that in us ye might learn not (to go) beyond the things which are written; that no one of you be puffed up for the one against the other.
    ASV

    They all know perfectly well that they go beyond what is written in many areas. Btw, this is the very reason the church of Christ right now is broken into mini denomination-they cant agree upon what is right or wrong. They go beyond what is written on many things. They use more than one cup at communion, they have song leaders, PA’a, song books, pitch pipes ( which could be called an instrument of music ), silver platters to put all of them little cups of Welch’s grapes juice on ( I though it was wine in the bible, btw ) and we could go on forever….but their loop hole for this is to say that these are “expedients” or matters of judgment.

    Btw, David. You are in a denomination too. Your denominating is broken into 25 sects, please tell us if your group is the right one and true church and the others church of Christ groups are wrong if they view scripture differently from you. What about the new born Christians who are on the milk of the word and understand things differently from you, are they lost too or must everyone come to this supposed knowledge that some of you guys have or be lost in hell?

    Paul’s instructions on liberty among Christians were clear – if it is not sin, and your brother feels liberty – give him that liberty. If your brother doesn’t feel liberty – than don’t feel like you have to convince him otherwise. This verse is in the bible too, will you go beyond it and say everyone is hell bound that disagrees with your supposed ability to perfectly understand Gods entire word. That is arrogant and prideful. One of best friends WAS a church of Christ preacher and taught on TV for years and taight just like you……notice I said he WAS….he no longer holds those views.

  21. I know the men against Mark Henderson. Rick Popejoy and Brant came here for the tent meetings. They are friends of Johnny, Norm, and James. They are some nice guys, but I still disagree with them on things.

  22. Yes I am strongly convicted of my belief. You seem to be saying that alternative interpretations are valid. Either an interpretation is right or is it wrong. There are no other options available.

    An interpretation which leads one to transgress the will of God in their Christian service bears salvational consequences.

    When there is a difference in interpretation, then all involved must lay aside personal wants and desires and seek the truth regardless of where it places them.

    Here is my position. I say manmade instruments are not authorized and therefore not permitted in our worship. There is not one single command in all of the New Covenant which specifically says to use them. In addition to this, there are commands in the New Testament which specify singing. So I know that singing is acceptable to God. No doubt about that. I am standing in a position for which there is no rebuke on this issue.

    In addition we are told in scripture that the teachings and doctrines of men invalidate our worship. (Matthew 15:9) We are also told in scripture that we must do everything in the name of, or by the authority of Jesus Christ (Colossians 3:17). And Paul takes it one step further and tells us not to even think beyond what is written in scripture (1 Corinthians 4:6). So this alone is sufficient to give one pause to seriously consider this issue.

    Since manmade musical instruments are not commanded, nor were used in the early church for around a thousand years, don’t you think that is sufficient grounds, in light of scriptural instruction NOT to use them today?

    Romans 10:3
    For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness , have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

    Are you guys defending manmade instruments because you are using them and you want to justify their use so you don’t have to change, or are you really seeking after God’s righteousness instead of man’s?

    Think about this guys, When I stand before God in judgment and I am giving an account of my life, in respect to this issue, I did what He told me to do. Exactly what He told me to do and I honored His request NOT to go beyond that.

    Those who do use these instruments did not honor God’s request to refrain from going beyond and are going to be counting on God cutting them a little slack in this area. Why would anyone take a chance of approaching God with their own righteousness and hoping He will accept it when they have exactly what He said He wants right there in front of them? He said “sing”. so…… SING. Don’t do anything else. He said not to, so don’t.

    Eternity is too long to get it wrong. This life is not a trial run. We don’t get to come back for a second chance at this. We have to get it right the first time.

    The life of a faithful Christian is not about what we want. It’s all about what God wants and all about us respecting that and doing it in humble submission to His will. This may mean making some sacrifices. Read Romans 12:1 and tell me we don’t have to do that. God’s way, God’s righteousness, not ours.

    It is my sincere hope and prayer that something I have said here will give you pause for thought. I am not here to do anything other than promote God’s way of doing things. When we do it His way, He is glorified. When we do it His way, we cannot fail.

  23. Hi David,

    Good post. I appreciate your obvious concern and earnestness. You’re up early!

    First, I like the following translation of Col 3:17:

    “And whatever you do or say, let it be as a representative of the Lord Jesus, all the while giving thanks through him to God the Father.”

    When I lead worship with my guitar, this is exactly what I do. I won’t lie to you – I do like having musical instruments as a part of worship. But that is not why I am discussing this with you. As I’ve said, I don’t take issue with your interpretation insofar as what happens in the church where you assemble on a Sunday morning. I do take issue with your trying to bind me to your convictions when I don’t share those convictions.

    That being said, I understand completely the point that you make, but here is the problem, as I see it:

    The Bible is NOT silent about the use of instruments in worship. In the NT, there are arguments about whether or not “psalmos” means “to pluck” as in plucking a musical instrument, but I’m not even going there at this point, so don’t worry about responding to it. I want to go back further.

    The use of musical instruments in worship is discussed quite often in the Old Testament. I won’t go into all of the details of the musical instruments mentioned in the OT, but you can find a pretty good list here:

    http://www.journal33.org/other/html/otinstr.htm

    Now, I know what the standard CofC reply to this would be – that in the OT they were under the Old Covenant, and we are under the New Covenant. I understand that. But, here’s the thing: if the men who wrote and first read the letters and books that make up the NT were 1st Century Jews, they would have looked at the books of our OT as their own holy Word. And in their Word, they had myriad examples of the use of musical instruments in worship.

    Isn’t it possible that they would have known that believers of the future would have known this, and known that respecting the OT also as God’s word would mean that musical instruments are an accepted part of worship? The assumption that you are making is more of a stretch – that we find a command in the omission.

    Do you see where I’m going? Let’s see if I can sum it up concisely: we don’t find a command to STOP using musical instruments in worship, and since they played such an important part in OT worship, there needed to be such a command to avoid confusion. My contention is that there isn’t such a command because it is not against God to use instruments in worship.

    Now, again, that being said, if your conscience tells you that you shouldn’t use musical instruments in worship, then for heaven’s sake, don’t use them! Just don’t try to take away my biblically authorized liberty because of the convictions of your conscience.

    Nathan

  24. ….good point about the OT. I still am amazed that these guys can have pitch pipes, song books, PA’a, song leaders, which are also not commanded, but then when music aids the singing, they wanna say “you don’t have a command for that”. btw, they don’t like to call music an aid; they like to call that an addition and call song books, song leaders, pitch pipes aids to singing, but for some reason they seem to think music doesn’t aid singing. If they are honest, they would admit that music is actually the best aid there is to singing, seeing it can be tuned and noted with ones voice.

  25. Yes instruments of music were used in the OT in their worship. So was the burning of incense and the sacrifice of animals. God removed these other things when He forbade their use under new testament worship. Those who appeal to the old testament form of worship fall from grace, and make themselves a debtor to the whole old law (Galatians 5:3-4).

    God did not have to say “Thou shalt not sacrifice animals”

    The first century Christians did not have any trouble understanding this. They rejected the use of manmade instruments in their worship and beyond for about a thousand years. See http://www.bible.ca/H-music.htm for the words of dozens of people from the ages.

    Citing the use of Manmade musical instruments today based on old testament inspiration is to condemn their use at the onset. We are forbidden to mix OT worship and NT worship.

    Moreover, we do not find a command in the ommision only. We find a command in the specific. God said sing. He never said Play. He specified what He wanted. When the specific is commanded, all other options are ruled out. This is as basic as understanding a food menu. You tell a waiter or waitress at a restaurant specifically what you want from the menu and that is what you expect to be served.

    We feel that God specified what He wanted, therefore that is what He expects. Inspiration teaches us not to go beyond what is written (1 Corinthians 4:6). Therefore it is a transgression of God’s will to add anything unauthorized in our worship to God.

    It’s a matter of authority. Who do you want to please? You or God? We know how to please God. Just obey Him implicitly.

  26. when i order that same food in that same restaurant i have
    never asked for a plate but i sure hope to get one each and
    every time.
    amen?

  27. ….good point about the OT. I still am amazed that these guys can have pitch pipes, song books, PA’a, song leaders, which are also not commanded, but then when music aids the singing, they wanna say “you don’t have a command for that”.

    It’s not that we do not have a command. It’s that we do have a command and it specifies singing.

    As for pitch pipes and song books.. When we use a song book, we are still singing. Songbooks do not change our form of worship from singing to anything other than singing. Neither does a pitch pipe.

    This is called an expedient. An expedient aids in something without changing its form.

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