Debate – Part IV

Tonight’s debate was apparently brought to you by the good folks at:

(Sorry… I just couldn’t resist…) 

After the bliss of last night’s actual debate, tonight we were back to business as usual for the Church of Christ broadcasts and debates.  It started out with Johnny making fun of Armando for getting lost.  He made fun of their lack of discernment, but there isn’t any evidence in Scripture that a person with the Holy Spirit can’t get lost while on the road.  It seemed pretty spiteful and petty of him to make fun of this, considering that these men are from out of state, and not from this part of the country.  Maybe there was more going on here, maybe Johnny was upset about something these men did behind the scenes, but it wasn’t a good way for Johnny to start out.

Later in the broadcast, one of the Church of Christ assemblers called in and quoted Revelations 21:8 as some sort of condemnation of Armando, alleging that Armando was a liar.  Now, the only potential lie in tonight’s broadcast of which I am aware was when Johnny said that this website contacted Armando and “told him he shouldn’t come because he’d hurt [our] movement.”  And he said it TWICE!

First, I am the moderator of this website.  I did contact Armando before he came, but only to warn him of the way that Johnny has traditionally conducted these debates.  I never NEVER told him not to come. 

Second, I don’t host a “movement”.  I host a blog.  And this blog is simply a place where normal folks come together to discuss the things that Johnny Robertson, Norm Fields and James Oldfield teach, because it’s so controversial, and in my opinion, it is often not correct.  And they don’t like it for some reason, although they spend so much time challenging pastors of other churches to come on and then lambast them when they do not.

There are two possibilities here:  one, that Johnny misunderstood what was written on the blog.  If that is the case, then I apologize for calling Johnny a liar, and I’ll ask him to go on his next program and retract that I contacted Armando and “told him he shouldn’t come because he’d hurt [our] movement.”

The second possibility is that Johnny made it up.  If that is the case, I’ll ask Johnny to go on his next program and repent for making up that I contacted Armando and “told him he shouldn’t come because he’d hurt [our] movement.”

So, I hope the next episode of “What Does the Bible Say?” has Johnny either retracting or repenting. 

Now, what really came to mind after watching tonight’s final “debate” was, “By their fruits you shall know them…” [Matthew 7:20].

This was the thing that made Armando’s argument more compelling tonight and overall – he really seems to have a humble, Christlike heart.  I still don’t buy his theology that denies the idea of the trinity, but I agree that Johnny spends his time degrading folks, and that degrading people is pharisaical.  “He that loveth not knoweth not” [1 John 4:8].

Now, by the end of the broadcast, Johnny seemed to have gotten a hold of himself.  He seemed tired, possibly just really ticked off.  I’m not sure which.  I would imagine that it must be tiring to feel like you are always fighting everyone around you.  I’m praying for you, Johnny Robertson!  (I really am).

This night was a waste of time as a debate, but mildly entertaining as an Ultimate Fighting match.  I’m sorry that Johnny set such an ugly tone for the evening, and felt like Armando definitely demonstrated a Christlike attitude throughout the debate (tonight and other nights as well), even when he was frayed at the edges from Johnny’s “fervent style”. In short, tonight was no contest.

Nathan’s Blog Final Debate Result:

Armando – 1 / Johnny – 0

 

 

And the AnsweringChurchofChrist.wordpress.com

Declared Overall Debate Winner Was:

Armando – 3 / Johnny – 2

 

 

 

If anyone else has any closing thoughts on this series of Church of Christ broadcasts, please feel free to post them here!

 

Sola Dei Gloria!

Nathan 

Advertisements

16 thoughts on “Debate – Part IV

  1. I do have a comment. You have been wonderfull, i have had to pray and keep my spirit in subjection. with fasting and prayer. Mr. Robertson apologized for not giving us the chord to the Lab top and that, my friend was what we accomplished. The doctrine of Oneness vs Trinity will soon be preached in North Carolina. I promised several individuals to come back and take an hour to explain the difference because many understood what i said. As for Johnnys myself teaching well even i got confused as to what he was trying to say. We will be flying back in 2months to go on live at the tv station with questions and answers at the end. We will do this in hopes to promote Christ. Christ name is above every name and like Jesus Said in John 17:26 ” i have declared thy name” my question if any one wants to answer WHAT IS THE NAME?
    Ladies and gentle men , False teachers and False Christ have bad attitude hence Mr. Robertson. God is going to do what God is going to do. We preached at a church this morning an young man came out of a wheel chair. But, Mr. Robertson will not beleive so we won’t show the video also a ladie (Pam) called me up and realized that when we prayed the next morning her back was healed well she called on the set tonight. There was other things that was done. Johnny did not look to frustrated when he was making fun of me. 🙂 that’s o.k But, when we got there all of a sudden he was tired and funny he did not pay for and extra hour. Well, I think Johnny down in his heart thinks he won God but, ladies and gentlemen God is the Victor in this i was just a servant.

    Nathan even though you agree with trinity i wished we could have met it does not bother me at all we can still be friends. Johnny says he called bellfower Hospital well there are over 1,000 hospital in the La County 🙂 I was in bellflower hospital when i was sick and thats on record i am going to try to send it to you when i get it when i get back home.

    Any way Johnny now will slice and dice to make himself happy but, we have a surprise when we come back. We wont say it is going to be real nice and so as a man of God i pray for beautiful weather. But, the most important person that i know now that i got to at least share the word with was Mitch he was generous with me the entire time . Thank you mitch. I will be back wont tell you but you will know when you see me in the t.v. station. maybe then well go out to eat. 🙂

  2. The above was written by me pastor Deloa Efren was using my computer earlier . Efren did make strong points earlier. i appreciate him my son and my companion in the Lord . He is a man of God Thank you boy for being sensitive in God.

    Love Pastor/Sensei/dad

  3. Don,

    In my opinion (and others might have other opinions), Armando was the overall winner. This is the summary of each of the nights:

    Night 1: Armando
    Night 2: Tie
    Night 3: Johnny
    Night 4: Armando

    So, the end result, Armando with three points, Johnny with two.

  4. I think the guys from LA may have stole the show, but the big question is—who’s doctrine was right and wrong? If Johnny were to be kind and loving as the men he debated were, he would have looked better. But, the real question is who’s doctrine was right? I think most people overlook this when watching these debates….what if a JW or Mormon were to debate Johnny and were just as nice—I fear people would take the JW and Mormons side despite the doctrine. Who do I think won the debate?? I think Armando won the people over and doing so won the debate. I see it just as Nathan has it above, but again I stress, who was teaching truth is the big question.

  5. That’s a valid point, Randy. However, I wasn’t just looking for the men to be nice, but I was looking to see who was exhibiting Christlike behavior while speaking the truth.

    However, I didn’t really see Johnny teaching what he believes with regards to miracles. I missed a few minutes of Friday night, and unless he explained then why he believes that miracles have ceased, the rest of the time I mainly heard him complaining about Armando or the local guys who teach like Armando.

    I am a rare Presbyterian in that I do believe that God does still work miracles through His people, and so just as I was looking for Armando to prove to me that the doctrine of the trinity is not correct (which he didn’t do), I was looking for Johnny to prove to me that the doctrine of believing in miracles is not correct. I just preached in a church yesterday and gave testimony of my wife’s best friend who was healed from a disease that is supposed to be incurable – and so it would have been a hard row to hoe for Johnny to convince me.

    In my mind, Johnny could have won this debate if he had done the following things:

    1) Not stayed on this “miracle challenge”.
    2) Had convincingly taught of his doctrine of cessationism.
    3) Had kept the same attitude that he had on Saturday night for all four nights. It was much more of a Christlike attitude.
    4) Had at least wrapped things up with more grace on Sunday night. He should have come back on at the end and thanked his guests. It was bad form to disappear and not return.

    You see, I appreciate what Johnny’s trying to do here – I think he’s right to challenge people in their belief of miracles, and to challenge people who say they perform miracles (or that God performs miracles through them). But, honestly, if he approached it with more Christ and less Saul, he’d be a lot more effective.

  6. Who is teaching truth is a good question Randy.Look at the scripture Armondo gave, see for yourself.Ask God to show you and he will.
    As far as jw and mormans I don’t know about Johnny,but I am confident Amondo Deloa would win!!
    I know Armondo Deloa is teaching truth.I was a trinitarian for years till I went to Aboundant Life Ministies.Let me tell you its not a dead church.I seen miracles sign and wonders.My leg grew before my eyes.
    I no longer limp or take any pain medicine.I was healed from depression I no longer take depression medicine.I have faith, that my friend is the Power of GOD.
    Christian are to be Christ like.Armondo already showed you all that.
    God bless you all.

  7. I don’t think we are stating that healings do not occur. I may have a differrent take than Nathan, but I do believe God can and does heal. But, we must be honest, do we see this power the same way the Apostles used it?? They seemed to have been “chosen” for a paticular reason-to preach the Gospel and people knew they were of God by the healings they done.

    True story: Don Piper, a preacher was driving back from a pastor’s conference when he got hit head-on by a semi truck… of the small Ford Escort, completely crushing the vehicle and killing Don Piper even pulling his body apart. One of his arms was laying in the back seat of his car. He had no life for 90 minutes, the paramedics pronouced him dead at the scene, he had no pulse, not blood pressure, no heart beat and was covered head to toe with a sheet. A another man stopped by and prayed over him and after 90 minutes of being dead, he was risen. This story can be confirmed by the people on the scene and paramedics. He was dead! His story can be found on many sites and he has been on many shows and many people that were there stated he was dead-no blood pressure-no heart beat-no pulse for 90 minutes-DEAD. But he was raised, if not from God, then Johnny, who raised him from the dead??

  8. Johnny did not want to challange me on the difference of Trinity vs Oneness but, i am comming back and will take my time to expose the subject. It may be correct many may believe in a doctrine that is not in the bible that is ok but, when light comes it opens up truth. so, in time will i prove my point and you guys can debate this teaching.

    LOve ya all.

  9. I’d make a suggestion, too. Armando, if you come back, then raise the money, buy airtime, and invite Johnny to come on to your program. Do this rather than appear on his program. Actually, I’d doubt that he would debate you again, but we’ll see.

    Anyway, I hope that you keep up your end of the bargain and return. If not, Johnny will use your claims to return against you and the folks here who believe as you believe.

  10. You are correct Nathan, if Armando doesnt show back up, Johnny will see this as a a win. So, Armando, I hope to see you again on TV and Nathans idea is good: You should raise the money for air-time and contact the staion once you get the money and then invite Johnny to debate you live on TV. This will grant you controls over the calls and PowerPoint.

  11. Tell Armando the rates are cheaper if he goes to Martinsville and debate from there, but this limits the viewers to those in Va. But he can count on Johnny to run parts of the debate on the other station too. Heck, knowing Johnny, he would run the entire debate on the other station, so it might be best to debate on the Martinsville station. Charles may give Armando a deal since he is coming so far away. Have Armando call Johnny and he would be glad to give you Charles number.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s